'01 Buick Le Sabre SES Light On

Bob Villa wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 2:52:32 PM UTC-6, Steve W. wrote:
>
>> Maybe if you learned about real diagnostics using a good scan tool
>> you
>>
>> would have repaired the problem in less than 30 minutes.
>>
>
> Steve, thanks for being so understanding (as always)...you will note
> in the original post "85K,2nd owner-with moderate knowledge"!


Not a problem. Sorry if it sounded like I was yelling at you.
The diatribe was for dsi1, who for some reason thinks that using a scan
tool to do diagnostics is a foolish thing.

I don't do the "clear the code and see if it comes back" on any customer
cars. Just isn't worth the hassle of bad word of mouth.

Are there sometimes spurious codes, Yes. Most of them become known over
time as well.

--
Steve W.

On 2/26/2014 10:52 AM, Steve W. wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>> On 2/26/2014 6:53 AM, Bob Villa wrote:
>>> That's all the print-out gives...and then the possibilities of fault.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks to the OBD II, you should be able to solve this problem in 20
>> minutes or so. :-)
>>
>> OTOH, are you having any other symptom than the service engine light
>> being on? If there isn't, I'd reset the light and see if it gets
>> another error code gets trapped. Sometimes the don't come back.
>
>
> Maybe if you learned about real diagnostics using a good scan tool you
> would have repaired the problem in less than 30 minutes.
>
> Customers initial complaint -
> Check engine light on and decreased fuel mileage. (probably low heat as
> well but may have not noticed)
>
> Put scan tool plug into the port turn on key and run a scan.
>
> Code says -
> P0128 = Engine not coming up to full operating temp.
> No other codes (at least none that the code reader they used show)
>
> Possible causes (as any P0XXX is a generic OBDII code)
>
> Low coolant
> Bad thermostat
> Bad ECT
> Cooling fan relay failure (fans on constantly)
>
> From inside the car -
>
> Pull the freeze frame data and it shows the engine had been running for
> 138 minutes, at 2,100 rpm, at 53 mph and engine load of 12% with a
> coolant temp of 161 degrees when the code was set (there will be more
> data but that coolant temp vs run time and load are the ones you need to
> see for this code.) Normal coolant temp under those conditions would be
> 210-220 degrees. Yep it's running cold. WHY?
>
>
> A bad ECT will set one or more of the following codes -
>
> P1114 - ECT Sensor Circuit Intermittent Low Voltage (sensor/wiring
> shorting to ground)
>
> P1115 - ECT Sensor Circuit Intermittent High Voltage (sensor/wiring
> shorting to 5 volt reference)
>
> P1116 - ECT Signal Unstable Or Intermittent (sensor/wiring faulty)
>
> P1117 - ECT Signal Out-Of-Range Low (Thermistor failing with increased
> resistance)
>
> P1118 - Engine Coolant Temp Signal Out-Of Range High (Thermistor
> failing with decreased resistance)
>
> P1119 - ECT Signal Out Of Range With TFT Sensor
>
> These are all available on a good scan tool and point directly to the
> problem. Either the wiring or the sensor unless they used a cheap code
> reader only and not a scan tool capable of OEM specific codes and didn't
> get ALL the codes.
>
> Go into bi directional control and cycle the cooling fans. They cycle
> on/off OK
>
> So it isn't the fans or ECT sensor causing the code.
>
> Open hood. Smell for excess gas, pull dipstick to make sure no gas or
> water in oil. None noted. (Why, because another possible reason for
> poor mileage and a cool running engine could be a leaking injector
> causing a rich mix. Usually this would also set a code but it never
> hurts to check. Water check because a leaking intake or head gasket
> could be dumping water into the engine causing a low coolant condition.)
>
> Nothing found. Check coolant level in overflow - OK,
> Check actual coolant level in radiator - OK
>
> Most likely fault - Bad Thermostat - Failed fully open.
>
>
> Notify customer - outline possibilities for repair.
>
> Drain coolant - replace thermostat - refill
>
> Coolant flush (if system shows signs of low maintenance and low coolant
> concentration) - new thermostat and refill.
>
>

I can appreciate your structured approach to weeding out the problem. If
you're a professional mechanic, you should follow a well thought out
protocol.

OTOH, it it was my car, I'd just reset the light and see if it happens
again. My guess is that there's nothing wrong with the fuel injectors
and that the loss in gas mileage is due to cold weather i.e., it's a red
herring. The reality is that we need more info on this problem.

You might think it's fine and dandy to change parts on a car that has no
issues other than the check engine light being on but I've never
operated like that. At the very least, I'd like to be able to replicate
the problem. I leave the throwing of random parts at a car to the
professionals. (-:

On 2/26/2014 6:51 PM, dsi1 wrote:
> OTOH, it it was my car, I'd just reset the light and see if it happens
> again. My guess is that there's nothing wrong with the fuel injectors
> and that the loss in gas mileage is due to cold weather i.e., it's a red
> herring.

Put a piece of electrical tape over the light.

--
T0m $herm@n

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:15:34 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:

>
> Put a piece of electrical tape over the light.

>
> T0m $herm@n

If I replace both parts for about $25...I can break even after a few tank fulls! 34 vs 26 MPG is a great savings!

On 2/26/2014 8:59 PM, Bob Villa wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:15:34 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:
>
>>
>> Put a piece of electrical tape over the light.
>
>>
>> T0m $herm@n
>
> If I replace both parts for about $25...I can break even after a few tank fulls! 34 vs 26 MPG is a great savings!
>
Or you could buy a used Yamaha Zuma 125 for $1,500, and get 90+ mpg.

--
T0m $herm@n

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:04:42 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:
> On 2/26/2014 8:59 PM, Bob Villa wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:15:34 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> Put a piece of electrical tape over the light.
>
> >
>
> >>
>
> >> T0m $herm@n
>
> >
>
> > If I replace both parts for about $25...I can break even after a few tank fulls! 34 vs 26 MPG is a great savings!
>
> >
>
> Or you could buy a used Yamaha Zuma 125 for $1,500, and get 90+ mpg.
>
>
>
> --
>
> T0m $herm@n

And how would that work with 3 kids and a wife?

On 2/26/2014 9:09 PM, Bob Villa wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:04:42 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:
>> On 2/26/2014 8:59 PM, Bob Villa wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:15:34 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Put a piece of electrical tape over the light.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> T0m $herm@n
>>
>>>
>>
>>> If I replace both parts for about $25...I can break even after a few tank fulls! 34 vs 26 MPG is a great savings!
>>
>>>
>>
>> Or you could buy a used Yamaha Zuma 125 for $1,500, and get 90+ mpg.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> T0m $herm@n
>
> And how would that work with 3 kids and a wife?
>
Better - you get away from them!

--
T0m $herm@n

Bob Villa > wrote in
:

> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:04:42 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:
>>
>>
>> Or you could buy a used Yamaha Zuma 125 for $1,500, and get 90+ mpg.
>>
>
> And how would that work with 3 kids and a wife?



You put everybody on the same bike. That's what they do in India.


--
Tegger

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:01:08 AM UTC-7, Bob Villa wrote:
> OBD2 (from AZ) 1.)Low Coolant, 2.)Thermostat defective, 3.)ECT defective Coolant is up to proper level-could there be an air gap at the ECT?
>
> Temp gauge and heat are working.
>
> If there is no air gap at the ECT, that would seem to be bad.
>
> 85K,2nd owner-with moderate knowledge.
>
>
>
> Anything to add would be appreciated!

On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:09:27 PM UTC-7, Bob Villa wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:04:42 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:
>
> > On 2/26/2014 8:59 PM, Bob Villa wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > On Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:15:34 PM UTC-6, T0m $herman wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> Put a piece of electrical tape over the light.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> T0m $herm@n
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > If I replace both parts for about $25...I can break even after a few tank fulls! 34 vs 26 MPG is a great savings!
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > Or you could buy a used Yamaha Zuma 125 for $1,500, and get 90+ mpg.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> >
>
> > T0m $herm@n
>
>
>
> And how would that work with 3 kids and a wife?

piece of cake:

http://tinyurl.com/kzuettx