"ENVIRONUST"

On Jun 5, 8:05 pm, Tegger > wrote:
> "GO Mavs" > wrote innews:RMi9i.28$ng.23@trnddc07:
>
> > Funny how some people spend a good amount of energy trying to discount
> > global warming.
>
> > However, let's assume global warming does not exist.
>
> That is a canard. Global warming does indeed exist. No scientist on earth
> denies that. The globe has been warming since about the year 1500.

Global warming and global cooling have been around for as long as the
earth has been in existence. It goes through cycles of warm and cool.

The real question is whether we are in a situation of perpetual
warming heading toward disaster or whether this is just another
warming cycle that will be followed by cooling. I don't think anyone
really knows the answer to that.

As you mention below, a separate issue is whether mankind has actually
contributed signficantly to this current trend in warming or whether
our activities are coincidental with the global warmup that we are
clearly experiencing. I think the picture is again not clear. One
would be very alarmed if they looked at the significant retreat of the
tidal glaciers in glacier bay alaska if they ignored the timeline.
Indeed they have been retreating since 1790 with much of the reduction
ocurring before 1900.


> What IS in question is man's role in it. The issue is far from settled,
> despite the dreams of the media and of various activists.
>
> --
> Tegger

On Jun 6, 2:46 am, Tegger > wrote:
> Eeyore > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
> > n5hsr wrote:
>
> >> "Eeyore" wrote
> >> > "Fred G. Mackey" wrote:
>
> >> >> BTW - there are people - even scientists - who deny that global
> >> >> warming exists.
>
> >> > Increasing numbers of scientists in fact as they all gradually get
> >> > annoyed with the rubbish that's currently being peddled.
>
> >> > The bizarre thing is the 'global warming establishment' is now
> >> > trying to muzzle their critics by applying wokplace / employment
> >> > pressure and the
> >> like. > If their case is so watertight, how come they're so
> >> frightened of questions or
> >> > debate ?
>
> >> Same thing that the liberals are afraid of, so they have to muzzle
> >> conservatives and the religious right. The Emperor has no clothes. .
> >> . . And both the conservatives and the religious have noticed.
>
> > There's no political distinction in Europe. Right, left and centre
> > have all fallen for this hogwash.
>
> > Religion doesn't play a role in it here.
>
> The "man-made global warming" crowd is entirely religious. The entire
> movement is ecclesiastical in nature, and its church is Mother Nature.
>
> --
> Tegger

As opposed to the church of big business and denial? The right wingers
who religiously deny this are just as bad as the left wingers who
religiously believe it. Neither side has the use for meaningful open
minded discussions.

BTW the only major scientific organization in the world that doesn't
believe that man is playing a significant role in global warming is
the American Association of Petroleum Geologists. Are you affiliated
with the petroleum industry by any chance?

"ToMh" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> As opposed to the church of big business and denial? The right
> wingers
> who religiously deny this are just as bad as the left wingers who
> religiously believe it. Neither side has the use for meaningful open
> minded discussions.
>
> BTW the only major scientific organization in the world that doesn't
> believe that man is playing a significant role in global warming is
> the American Association of Petroleum Geologists. Are you affiliated
> with the petroleum industry by any chance?

OK, assuming that what you say is true, what exactly does that prove?

Ed

On Jun 6, 4:52 am, Tegger > wrote:
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote innews >
> > Of course, this
> > sentence is only true for people who acknowledge that some places have
> > nasty air quality problems.
>
> EPA studies show the air to be 57% cleaner now than it was in 1970. And
> that's in absolute terms, not relative ones.
>
> --
> Tegger


Thank the environmentalists. It certainly wasn't because we let
industry police itself.

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
news:4666e60c@kcnews01...
>
> "ToMh" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>> As opposed to the church of big business and denial? The right wingers
>> who religiously deny this are just as bad as the left wingers who
>> religiously believe it. Neither side has the use for meaningful open
>> minded discussions.
>>
>> BTW the only major scientific organization in the world that doesn't
>> believe that man is playing a significant role in global warming is
>> the American Association of Petroleum Geologists. Are you affiliated
>> with the petroleum industry by any chance?
>
> OK, assuming that what you say is true, what exactly does that prove?
>
> Ed
>

Nobody in their right mind accepts corporate funded research results unless
there is independent verification. Doesn't matter if the people actually
doing the work are from a college. If the financial support for the work
came from a corporation with a potential interest in the results, the work
must be verified independently.

Does that answer your question?

"ToMh" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 6, 4:52 am, Tegger > wrote:
>> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote
>> innews >>
>> > Of course, this
>> > sentence is only true for people who acknowledge that some places have
>> > nasty air quality problems.
>>
>> EPA studies show the air to be 57% cleaner now than it was in 1970. And
>> that's in absolute terms, not relative ones.
>>
>> --
>> Tegger
>
>
> Thank the environmentalists. It certainly wasn't because we let
> industry police itself.
>
>

To some extent, you can thank OPEC for the first oil "crisis". It resulted
in changes small and large around this country. For instance, in NY state,
it wasn't until that oil crisis that the law changed, and allowed us to make
a right turn on red. If you were not living in Long Island in the 1970s, you
cannot possibly imagine the outrageous traffic, and how many cars sat at red
lights, needlessly idling.

On Jun 6, 8:49 am, "C. E. White" >
wrote:
> "ToMh" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > As opposed to the church of big business and denial? The right
> > wingers
> > who religiously deny this are just as bad as the left wingers who
> > religiously believe it. Neither side has the use for meaningful open
> > minded discussions.
>
> > BTW the only major scientific organization in the world that doesn't
> > believe that man is playing a significant role in global warming is
> > the American Association of Petroleum Geologists. Are you affiliated
> > with the petroleum industry by any chance?
>
> OK, assuming that what you say is true, what exactly does that prove?
>
> Ed

That the vast majority of scientists believe that man is playing a
significant role in global warming.

Tegger wrote:

> Eeyore wrote
> > n5hsr wrote:
> >> "Eeyore" wrote
> >> > "Fred G. Mackey" wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> BTW - there are people - even scientists - who deny that global
> >> >> warming exists.
> >> >
> >> > Increasing numbers of scientists in fact as they all gradually get
> >> > annoyed with the rubbish that's currently being peddled.
> >> >
> >> > The bizarre thing is the 'global warming establishment' is now
> >> > trying to muzzle their critics by applying wokplace / employment
> >> > pressure and the like. If their case is so watertight, how come they're
> so
> >> > frightened of questions or debate ?
> >>
> >>
> >> Same thing that the liberals are afraid of, so they have to muzzle
> >> conservatives and the religious right. The Emperor has no clothes. .
> >> . . And both the conservatives and the religious have noticed.
> >
> > There's no political distinction in Europe. Right, left and centre
> > have all fallen for this hogwash.
> >
> > Religion doesn't play a role in it here.
>
>
> The "man-made global warming" crowd is entirely religious. The entire
> movement is ecclesiastical in nature,

Yes I know what you mean !


> and its church is Mother Nature.

I doubt that 'Mother Nature' has anything to do with it in reality. Persuing
some mildly cranky agenda based on a mixture of scientific half-truths and envy
and a desire to impose an alternative lifestyle on the broader population seems
to be more like it.

Graham

ToMh wrote:

> BTW the only major scientific organization in the world that doesn't
> believe that man is playing a significant role in global warming is
> the American Association of Petroleum Geologists.

Are you sure that's not itself just more AGW propaganda ?

Graham

ToMh wrote:

> "C. E. White" wrote:
> > "ToMh" > wrote
> >
> > > As opposed to the church of big business and denial? The right
> > > wingers
> > > who religiously deny this are just as bad as the left wingers who
> > > religiously believe it. Neither side has the use for meaningful open
> > > minded discussions.
> >
> > > BTW the only major scientific organization in the world that doesn't
> > > believe that man is playing a significant role in global warming is
> > > the American Association of Petroleum Geologists. Are you affiliated
> > > with the petroleum industry by any chance?
> >
> > OK, assuming that what you say is true, what exactly does that prove?
>
> That the vast majority of scientists believe that man is playing a
> significant role in global warming.

How does it prove that ? I believe that's yet more AGW propaganda.

The number of sceptical scientists seems to be on the increase.

Graham