Can minivans really pull a trailer?

My husband and I have been seriosly thinking of purchasing a minivan,
and the 2005 Odyssey Touring and 2005 Grand Caravan SXT are our
finalists. (We drove the Sienna, and neither of us really liked it.) We
don't have kids, and aren't planning on them, but we do have big dogs
(Rottweiler and Irish Wolfhound) and lots of friends. Our ideal vehicle
is one in which we can take 6 adults comfortably with a moderate amount
of stuff or 4 adults and the two dogs. We also have a trailer that we
pull on a regular basis (average two weekends a month - 50 to 600
miles).

Before we make our final decision, there are some caveats that we would
like to be certain of.

1) Can the Odyssey pull a trailer easily and without the gas mileage
falling below 10-12mpg? Our trailer (Haulmark Cub, 6' tall, 8' long,
single axle) weighs about 2500# when loaded. When pulling the trailer,
the van will most likely be full of people. Will the engine still be
able to keep up highway speeds? Will the height cause a great deal of
wind resistance behind the van?

2) Our trailer has brakes on it, which come in very, very handy. I have
seen other posts talking about surge brakes or dash mounted kits and am
not sure what those are. When hitched to our truck (99 Dodge Ram 1500
Quad cab, 8' bed), the trailer brakes engage when we step on the truck
brakes. The trailer has a 7-pin wiring harness, and I understand that
minivans only come with a 4-pin, but I'm fairly certain there's an
adaptor for that. Is there?

3) Are the 3rd row seats comfortable for an adult on a long (4+ hour)
drive?

Neither of us have ever owned a minivan, but for what we want to be
able to do they seem like the best choice. SUVs have lower gas mileage,
or can't carry as many people, but they are able to pull a trailer. A
minivan seems to have everything we want.

Thanks,
Gilyan

The folks in the RV/pop-up camper groups tend to get pretty fanatical about
not exceeding 75% of the towing capacity of the vehicle. If you go by their
rule of thumb, and you have a Caravan set up to tow, then 2850lbs is about
it. That's going by the 3800lbs towing capacity that is listed. The Honda
would be a bit less as it appears to be rated to tow 3500lbs. And keep in
mind, the listed towing capacity includes everything in the vehicle PLUS the
loaded trailer. Can you get away with loading to near the max capacity?
Probably...

Judging by the 1992 Caravan that I have with the 3.0 v6, I would never tow
anything with it (mainly afraid I'd tear out that poor transmission), but
it's only rated for probably 1500lbs. It's also not an overly sturdy
vehicle compared to the Isuzu Trooper we use to tow our 18' travel trailer
(2400lbs empty). As for power, I would think you would not have any
problems with either. Our 2002 Trooper is rated at 215hp and does a great
job with the travel trailer. The 3.8 in the Caravan says 215hp, and the
Odyssey is even higher. Yes, height and wind resistance makes a big
difference.

In general it just seems to me that minivan's aren't as well suited for
towing as SUV's and larger vehicles...always a balancing game between fuel
efficiency and towing capacity... If you're towing that much, it might be
in your best interest to consider something a little beefier. Have you
checked the full-size vans? I know Ford still makes one, not sure about
Chevy. Dodge has that funny-looking sprinter that replaced their van.
But...there goes some of the gas mileage (when you're not towing).

Brakes - surge or "dash-mounted"? Surge brakes have a unit on the tongue of
the trailer that engages the brakes as the trailer pushes on the tow vehicle
as it slows down. I'm guessing you probably have electric brakes - is there
a box in your truck that probably has a lever on the front and something
that lights up when you hit the brakes? That's the electric brake
controller. I've never towed a trailer with surge brakes, but I hear they
are a pain. If you order a minivan with a tow kit, it will most likely come
with the 4-flat trailer connector. You'd need to add a brake controller,
run a few wires, and replace it with a 7-pin connection. Not a big deal if
you're so inclined, otherwise I'm sure a local RV shop could easily do it
for you.

Gas mileage - your results will probably be similar or a bit better compared
to our travel trailer. For us, towing with the 2002 Isuzu Trooper (3.5 v6,
215hp, rated to tow 5000lbs), it will get 19mpg on the highway. Toss the
trailer on the back, and I've gotten as bad as 9mpg, and as good as 13mpg.
9 was really pushing it, 13 was best ever and taking it easy (no rush up
hills, etc). Can't say how that would compare, but probably not a huge
difference. I understand bigger engines handle a load without losing as
much gas mileage...? That could be an advantage of a van (or truck, etc)
with a bigger engine if you're doing a lot of towing...

How much driving will you be doing w/o the trailer in tow compared to how
much you will be towing?

Wesley



"Gilyan" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> My husband and I have been seriosly thinking of purchasing a minivan,
> and the 2005 Odyssey Touring and 2005 Grand Caravan SXT are our
> finalists. (We drove the Sienna, and neither of us really liked it.) We
> don't have kids, and aren't planning on them, but we do have big dogs
> (Rottweiler and Irish Wolfhound) and lots of friends. Our ideal vehicle
> is one in which we can take 6 adults comfortably with a moderate amount
> of stuff or 4 adults and the two dogs. We also have a trailer that we
> pull on a regular basis (average two weekends a month - 50 to 600
> miles).
>
> Before we make our final decision, there are some caveats that we would
> like to be certain of.
>
> 1) Can the Odyssey pull a trailer easily and without the gas mileage
> falling below 10-12mpg? Our trailer (Haulmark Cub, 6' tall, 8' long,
> single axle) weighs about 2500# when loaded. When pulling the trailer,
> the van will most likely be full of people. Will the engine still be
> able to keep up highway speeds? Will the height cause a great deal of
> wind resistance behind the van?
>
> 2) Our trailer has brakes on it, which come in very, very handy. I have
> seen other posts talking about surge brakes or dash mounted kits and am
> not sure what those are. When hitched to our truck (99 Dodge Ram 1500
> Quad cab, 8' bed), the trailer brakes engage when we step on the truck
> brakes. The trailer has a 7-pin wiring harness, and I understand that
> minivans only come with a 4-pin, but I'm fairly certain there's an
> adaptor for that. Is there?
>
> 3) Are the 3rd row seats comfortable for an adult on a long (4+ hour)
> drive?
>
> Neither of us have ever owned a minivan, but for what we want to be
> able to do they seem like the best choice. SUVs have lower gas mileage,
> or can't carry as many people, but they are able to pull a trailer. A
> minivan seems to have everything we want.
>
> Thanks,
> Gilyan
>

I have a friend that towed with a Caravan and tore the transmission up. The
dealer told him when he had it replaced not rebuilt not to tow in overdrive.
He towed after that without a problem. If I was going to tow I would make
sure I add a transmission cooler to the van. It will help save the
transmission.

Jeep is coming out with a new vehicle that is going to be called Jeep
Commander. It will have seating for 7 adults. It is set to be introduced
in 2006 model line up. http://www.jeep.com/autoshow/commander/ It is
compared to the Chevy Tahoo. Choice of three different engines. The 5.7L
Hemi has MDS to help conserve fuel when cruising. Both the 4.7 and 5.7 have
an optional towing package which includes a different transmission. You
press a button when in tow mode. It is fulltime four wheel drive. Third
row seating has its own AC controls.

Sarge

I've towed a lot, with cars, vans, and other vehicles. Something i
have noticed a LOT is that american towing ratings are substantially
lower than the ratings for the same models everywhere else in the
world.

The 7 pin is, i assume, the standard international style (hexagon
config). The trailer mounted brakes you have are also international
standard (they're requires in the UK, for instance, on any trailer
over 1500 - lb, i'm pretty sure its not kg)

Will it tow it? yes, should you? not with an automatic transmission.
Auto transmission is designed for two types of people - those too lazy
to change gear, and those unable to change gear. You should never use
one for towing.

Wesley did come out with a good alternative - the sprinter and its
ilk. In europe you can get these (especially the Ford Transit) in3,
4, 7 and 15 seater versions, and they are by far the most common form
of commerical vehicle in the roads (they outsell, and out-perform
pickups like your ram. They're also extremely easy to modify. Get one,
and make and fit your own window, add in some seats from another
vehicle, and voila - a nice 6 seater. Its not hard to do - i think it
took me and a friend a day to do such mods to a suzuki supercarry he
bought, using not much more than a cordless drill, and a jigsaw. These
vans are also taller than minivans, and so will help the
wind-resistance, better yet, you can buy windsocks, that are basically
sheets on a spring-roll, that fasten between the back end of your
vehicle, and the outside front edge of the towed vehicle - makes a
massive difference. Also, the Sprinter is a mercedies, and the chevvy
express is a vauxhall - both long evolved designs through europe - the
only main difference is the dreadful engines and transmissions put in
them for sale in the US

Oh, and they're not slow either - the BBc's top gear show (now also
modified and shown on Discovery) ran a ford transit Diesel around the
nurenbourg ring - it managed it in around 10 minutes - but you really
have to see the piece.

Basically for towing what you want, your options are either going to
be
a) minivan - but it might not like the limits you'll be putting on it,
in US spec,
b) large SUV - but that ill be expensive, and costly to run or
c) getting a large van, maybe making some mods if needed,

Obviously, if you have the options, go for manual transmission and
diesel engines, where possible. (and manual is more important than
diesel, especially since you still can't get a modern diesel in the
US)

The latest I've been seeing and hearing is saying that the auto
transmissions are sturdier and more capable of hauling loads than the manual
transmissions are these days. Certainly goes against everything I've ever
heard before though!

Here in the states you don't see many manual-transmission vehicles
around...and those you do you can get a good deal on, cuz most people don't
want them. I'm with you on the diesels - I think I would have gotten that
in our Trooper had it been an option here in the US - it is everywhere else!
Somewhere along the line, Americans have gotten this image of a noisy, low
power, black-smoke belching diesel engine. That seems to be slowly
changing - ie the Jeep Liberty now has a diesel option...

Wesley


"flobert" > wrote in message
...

> Auto transmission is designed for two types of people - those too lazy
> to change gear, and those unable to change gear. You should never use
> one for towing.

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 00:41:18 -0400, "Wesley" > wrote:

>The folks in the RV/pop-up camper groups tend to get pretty fanatical about
>not exceeding 75% of the towing capacity of the vehicle. If you go by their
>rule of thumb, and you have a Caravan set up to tow, then 2850lbs is about
>it. That's going by the 3800lbs towing capacity that is listed. The Honda
>would be a bit less as it appears to be rated to tow 3500lbs. And keep in
>mind, the listed towing capacity includes everything in the vehicle PLUS the
>loaded trailer. Can you get away with loading to near the max capacity?
>Probably...
>
>Judging by the 1992 Caravan that I have with the 3.0 v6, I would never tow
>anything with it (mainly afraid I'd tear out that poor transmission), but
>it's only rated for probably 1500lbs. It's also not an overly sturdy
>vehicle compared to the Isuzu Trooper we use to tow our 18' travel trailer
>(2400lbs empty). As for power, I would think you would not have any
>problems with either. Our 2002 Trooper is rated at 215hp and does a great
>job with the travel trailer. The 3.8 in the Caravan says 215hp, and the
>Odyssey is even higher. Yes, height and wind resistance makes a big
>difference.
>

I towed a 17 foot Bonair cabin trailer without a problem with my 3.0
Aerostar. Bout a 3.8 TransSport figuring it would be at least as good,
and was greatly dissapointed. It's geared for too low an engine speed
- even in third towing was problematic. Just sold the trailer.

>In general it just seems to me that minivan's aren't as well suited for
>towing as SUV's and larger vehicles...always a balancing game between fuel
>efficiency and towing capacity... If you're towing that much, it might be
>in your best interest to consider something a little beefier. Have you
>checked the full-size vans? I know Ford still makes one, not sure about
>Chevy. Dodge has that funny-looking sprinter that replaced their van.
>But...there goes some of the gas mileage (when you're not towing).
>
>Brakes - surge or "dash-mounted"? Surge brakes have a unit on the tongue of
>the trailer that engages the brakes as the trailer pushes on the tow vehicle
>as it slows down. I'm guessing you probably have electric brakes - is there
>a box in your truck that probably has a lever on the front and something
>that lights up when you hit the brakes? That's the electric brake
>controller. I've never towed a trailer with surge brakes, but I hear they
>are a pain. If you order a minivan with a tow kit, it will most likely come
>with the 4-flat trailer connector. You'd need to add a brake controller,
>run a few wires, and replace it with a 7-pin connection. Not a big deal if
>you're so inclined, otherwise I'm sure a local RV shop could easily do it
>for you.

I have often run the brake and charging wires for the trailer directly
to the 7 pin connector, and installed a flat 4 to the 7 pin to plug it
into the existing connector. Works well - and allows you to tow the
little utility trailer etc without an adapter.
>
>Gas mileage - your results will probably be similar or a bit better compared
>to our travel trailer. For us, towing with the 2002 Isuzu Trooper (3.5 v6,
>215hp, rated to tow 5000lbs), it will get 19mpg on the highway. Toss the
>trailer on the back, and I've gotten as bad as 9mpg, and as good as 13mpg.
>9 was really pushing it, 13 was best ever and taking it easy (no rush up
>hills, etc). Can't say how that would compare, but probably not a huge
>difference. I understand bigger engines handle a load without losing as
>much gas mileage...? That could be an advantage of a van (or truck, etc)
>with a bigger engine if you're doing a lot of towing...

The Aerostar generally gave close to 600km per tank on the highway
without the trailer. On a trip from Central Ontario to Vancouver BC
and back towing the trailer, we got anywhwere from 485 to 700.

The Pontiac was a different story - the trailer reduced gas mileage by
at least half (it does get a bit better mileage empty ---)
>
>How much driving will you be doing w/o the trailer in tow compared to how
>much you will be towing?
>
>Wesley
>
>
>
>"Gilyan" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>> My husband and I have been seriosly thinking of purchasing a minivan,
>> and the 2005 Odyssey Touring and 2005 Grand Caravan SXT are our
>> finalists. (We drove the Sienna, and neither of us really liked it.) We
>> don't have kids, and aren't planning on them, but we do have big dogs
>> (Rottweiler and Irish Wolfhound) and lots of friends. Our ideal vehicle
>> is one in which we can take 6 adults comfortably with a moderate amount
>> of stuff or 4 adults and the two dogs. We also have a trailer that we
>> pull on a regular basis (average two weekends a month - 50 to 600
>> miles).
>>
>> Before we make our final decision, there are some caveats that we would
>> like to be certain of.
>>
>> 1) Can the Odyssey pull a trailer easily and without the gas mileage
>> falling below 10-12mpg? Our trailer (Haulmark Cub, 6' tall, 8' long,
>> single axle) weighs about 2500# when loaded. When pulling the trailer,
>> the van will most likely be full of people. Will the engine still be
>> able to keep up highway speeds? Will the height cause a great deal of
>> wind resistance behind the van?
>>
>> 2) Our trailer has brakes on it, which come in very, very handy. I have
>> seen other posts talking about surge brakes or dash mounted kits and am
>> not sure what those are. When hitched to our truck (99 Dodge Ram 1500
>> Quad cab, 8' bed), the trailer brakes engage when we step on the truck
>> brakes. The trailer has a 7-pin wiring harness, and I understand that
>> minivans only come with a 4-pin, but I'm fairly certain there's an
>> adaptor for that. Is there?
>>
>> 3) Are the 3rd row seats comfortable for an adult on a long (4+ hour)
>> drive?
>>
>> Neither of us have ever owned a minivan, but for what we want to be
>> able to do they seem like the best choice. SUVs have lower gas mileage,
>> or can't carry as many people, but they are able to pull a trailer. A
>> minivan seems to have everything we want.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Gilyan
>>
>

On Thu, 4 Aug 2005 18:42:33 -0400, "Wesley" > wrote:

>The latest I've been seeing and hearing is saying that the auto
>transmissions are sturdier and more capable of hauling loads than the manual
>transmissions are these days. Certainly goes against everything I've ever
>heard before though!

Go check the figures, they're wrong :-) i'll bet the people saying
that couldn't drive a 'stick' if their life depended on it.

>
>Here in the states you don't see many manual-transmission vehicles
>around...and those you do you can get a good deal on, cuz most people don't
>want them. I'm with you on the diesels - I think I would have gotten that
>in our Trooper had it been an option here in the US - it is everywhere else!
>Somewhere along the line, Americans have gotten this image of a noisy, low
>power, black-smoke belching diesel engine. That seems to be slowly
>changing - ie the Jeep Liberty now has a diesel option...

Oh yeah. the BMW 330d is now the most powerful, and fastest 3 series
they sell (moreso than the 330i), jag has a good diesel in their
s-type, VW's had a diesel GTi (which outperformed the petrol one) for
about 5 years. They don't smoke, don't rattle, and get a lot better
mileage. Biggest advantage dieselshave though, is that their torque is
already down low, unlike standard petrol engines in the US that need
to be heavily detuned, to make the 'low down torque' americans deem
important, require to go with their auto-boxes, and which also provide
a quieter ride.

>
>Wesley
>
>
>"flobert" > wrote in message
.. .
>
>> Auto transmission is designed for two types of people - those too lazy
>> to change gear, and those unable to change gear. You should never use
>> one for towing.
>

> wrote in message
...

> I towed a 17 foot Bonair cabin trailer without a problem with my 3.0
> Aerostar. Bout a 3.8 TransSport figuring it would be at least as good,
> and was greatly dissapointed. It's geared for too low an engine speed
> - even in third towing was problematic. Just sold the trailer.

There's anothing thing...the Ford Aerostar and the Chevy Astro are
rear-wheel drive vehicles designed to tow more than most front-wheel drive
minivan's. The only Astro I ever drove was a work van and that little
sucker had quite a bit of power.

I just looked - the specs on Chevy's web site rate the Astro passenger
version as capable of towing 5400lbs. I don't know of any other minivan
that can do that...even their Venture is only rated for 3500lbs. But...I'm
not a Chevy guy... Give me a Ford, Dodge, Or Isuzu.

Wesley

aerostar? or windstar?

ones AWD with a crappy transfer case and the other is 2WD




"Wesley" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I towed a 17 foot Bonair cabin trailer without a problem with my 3.0
> > Aerostar. Bout a 3.8 TransSport figuring it would be at least as good,
> > and was greatly dissapointed. It's geared for too low an engine speed
> > - even in third towing was problematic. Just sold the trailer.
>
> There's anothing thing...the Ford Aerostar and the Chevy Astro are
> rear-wheel drive vehicles designed to tow more than most front-wheel drive
> minivan's. The only Astro I ever drove was a work van and that little
> sucker had quite a bit of power.
>
> I just looked - the specs on Chevy's web site rate the Astro passenger
> version as capable of towing 5400lbs. I don't know of any other minivan
> that can do that...even their Venture is only rated for 3500lbs.
But...I'm
> not a Chevy guy... Give me a Ford, Dodge, Or Isuzu.
>
> Wesley
>
>

Aerostar is 2-wheel rear-wheel drive, is it not? I believe they had the
option for AWD? I don't know anything about the Windstar's...

Wesley

"rob" > wrote in message
...
> aerostar? or windstar?
>
> ones AWD with a crappy transfer case and the other is 2WD
>
>
>
>
> "Wesley" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > I towed a 17 foot Bonair cabin trailer without a problem with my 3.0
> > > Aerostar. Bout a 3.8 TransSport figuring it would be at least as good,
> > > and was greatly dissapointed. It's geared for too low an engine speed
> > > - even in third towing was problematic. Just sold the trailer.
> >
> > There's anothing thing...the Ford Aerostar and the Chevy Astro are
> > rear-wheel drive vehicles designed to tow more than most front-wheel
drive
> > minivan's. The only Astro I ever drove was a work van and that little
> > sucker had quite a bit of power.
> >
> > I just looked - the specs on Chevy's web site rate the Astro passenger
> > version as capable of towing 5400lbs. I don't know of any other minivan
> > that can do that...even their Venture is only rated for 3500lbs.
> But...I'm
> > not a Chevy guy... Give me a Ford, Dodge, Or Isuzu.
> >
> > Wesley
> >
> >
>
>