Price fixing among tire manufacturers

In article <OZEej.2461$yv5.2197@trndny07>, says...
>
> "Gene S. Berkowitz" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > In article <lkjej.886$nN5.202@trndny04>, says...
> >>
> >> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> >> news:60iej.1373$jX4.873@trnddc07...
> >> > Bill Putney wrote:
> >> >> Jeff wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> The American Museum of Natural History in NYC has a neat exhibition
> >> >>> called something like H2O - the stuff of life, that looks at how much
> >> >>> water people, especially Americans, use, as well as the large amount
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> water it takes to grow the food to feed a cow for a single quarter
> >> >>> pounder with cheese compared to the water to grow crops for the same
> >> >>> amount of food energy say in a loaf of bread or a few ears of corn or
> >> >>> other vegetables (not even adjusting for the toys).
> >> >>
> >> >> But water is not permanently converted or bound up once it is used.
> >> >> It
> >> >> gets released (OK - recycled) in short order. The only thing that
> >> >> would
> >> >> make it globally scarce is if it gets bound up for long periods of
> >> >> time.
> >> >> IOW - if I use 300 gallons of water to take one bath, it's not lost..
> >> >> It's
> >> >> pretty much immediately available for use (perhaps after some
> >> >> processing). (and no - I'm not saying that people should use 300
> >> >> gallons
> >> >> of water for a bath - just an illustration)
> >> >
> >> > Yet water is rarely reused. There are a few exceptions where water is
> >> > recycled. In some parts of California, they are planning on purifying
> >> > the
> >> > water and injecting it back into the ground. Some people recycle
> >>
> >> Well perhaps, if you exclude the largest source of recycled water,
> >> RAIN...
> >
> > Much rainwater that falls in the USA is unfit for consumption without
> > some sort of treatment process, due to atmospheric pollution. Often,
> > that treatment is performed by another shrinking natural resource,
> > wetlands. Otherwise, it is performed by treating the municipal water
> > supply.
> >
> > 20% of irrigated land in the USA is supplied by the Ogallala Aquifer,
> > which consists of water trapped in sediment during the last ice age. It
> > is being consumed at four times the rate it is being replaced. Should
> > the aquifer go dry, that 20% of (highly productive) land will fall out
> > of production, as it doesn't receive enough rain to be productive on
> > rainfall alone.
> >
> > Aquifers, not rainfall, supply 60% of the fresh water in the USA, and
> > virtually all of them are being consumed faster than their recharge
> > rate.
> >
> > --Gene
> >
> >
>
> Consumed??? Wrong!!!
>
> con·sume : to destroy or expend by use; use up.

You neatly skipped the first definition:
"To take in as food; eat or drink up."

> It is water "before" being used, and it is still water after being used, at
> most, it has been moved, but certainly not consumed...

After "consumption" by a mammal, water is excreted, but is combined with
salts, sugars, acids, and proteins. It is then no longer fit for human
consumption. You can't drink urine, at least not for long, without
destroying your kidneys.

The separation of the water from the other components in urine requires
a large input of energy, for either filtration by reverse osmosis, or
distillation.

When used for irrigation, most of it is transported away by evaporation;
the remainder typically becomes contaminated by agricultural chemicals.

So, after the initial "use" of "fresh" water, it isn't fresh anymore.

Water does not return to the acquifer as fast as it is being pumped out.
Acquifer levels in the USA and elsewhere ARE dropping; they WILL go dry
if current withdrawal rates continue.


> Besides, in many areas of the world including in the USA, humans can and do
> DRINK rain water.

Of course they do. And thanks to rapid and widespread
industrialization, they are also drinking carbonic, sulphuric, and
nitric acid, along with copper, radionucleides, pesticides, arsenic,
lead, and coliform bacteria.


> http://www.auerhaus.org/systems/rainwater.htm

Sorry, this is one guy's blog on building a home and capturing
rainwater; he is wrong in his first statement that rainwater is
"naturally clean".

Better sources of information:

Quantitative microbial risk assessment with respect to Campylobacter
spp. in toilets flushed with harvested rainwater
Water and Environment Journal 21 (4), 275?280.
doi:10.1111/j.1747-6593.2007.00088.x

Trace element contamination of rain water in the semi-arid region of
Kano, Nigeria
Author(s): J.T. Ayodele, M.B. Abubakar
Environmental Management and Health
ISSN: 0956-6163
Year: 1998 Volume: 9 Issue: 4 Page: 176 - 181
DOI: 10.1108/09566169810229006
Publisher: MCB UP Ltd

Organochlorine pesticides in rainwater, Oahu, Hawaii, 1971?1972
Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology
ISSN 0007-4861 (Print) 1432-0800 (Online)
Issue Volume 8, Number 4 / October, 1972
DOI 10.1007/BF01839519
Pages 238-241

--Gene

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:44:13 -0800, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> wrote:
><clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:39:48 GMT, Jeff >
>> wrote:

>> Same thing happened when the 1MB hard rive (I think it was) was
>> replaced with a 2 MB - at any rate the capacity was doubled. They put
>> the double capacity hard drive in as a normal drive with the small
>> capacity, and the expensive upgrade just re-jumpered the drive.
>
>I ran across this trick on my father's 80286 clone AT system back
>in the late 80's. He had a 20MB disk in
>his computer and me being young and interested in DOS, one day
>I copied his data files to floppies and ran fdisk to go through the
>motions of installing DOS, just to see how it was done. I was very
>surprised to see fdisk reporting the disk as having 40MB. When I
>pulled the cover and looked up the info for the disk, it was indeed
>a 40MB disk drive. The dealership that had sold him the computer
>had fdisked the disk up as a 20MB disk.

Early versions of MS-DOS 2.x and 3.x could only address IIRC 24MB of
hard drive, and yet hard drives had already passed that point - so
rather than pay extra for a real 20MB drive, they installed a 40MB for
less and only formatted it to the 20MB the computer could address.
When I got our old XT up to MS-Dos 6.22 I reformatted and had the
whole 40MB.

--<< Bruce >>--

"Gene S. Berkowitz" > wrote in message
.. .
In article <OZEej.2461$yv5.2197@trndny07>, says...
>
> "Gene S. Berkowitz" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > In article <lkjej.886$nN5.202@trndny04>, says...
> >>
> >> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> >> news:60iej.1373$jX4.873@trnddc07...
> >> > Bill Putney wrote:
> >> >> Jeff wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> The American Museum of Natural History in NYC has a neat exhibition
> >> >>> called something like H2O - the stuff of life, that looks at how
> >> >>> much
> >> >>> water people, especially Americans, use, as well as the large
> >> >>> amount
> >> >>> of
> >> >>> water it takes to grow the food to feed a cow for a single quarter
> >> >>> pounder with cheese compared to the water to grow crops for the
> >> >>> same
> >> >>> amount of food energy say in a loaf of bread or a few ears of corn
> >> >>> or
> >> >>> other vegetables (not even adjusting for the toys).
> >> >>
> >> >> But water is not permanently converted or bound up once it is used.
> >> >> It
> >> >> gets released (OK - recycled) in short order. The only thing that
> >> >> would
> >> >> make it globally scarce is if it gets bound up for long periods of
> >> >> time.
> >> >> IOW - if I use 300 gallons of water to take one bath, it's not lost.
> >> >> It's
> >> >> pretty much immediately available for use (perhaps after some
> >> >> processing). (and no - I'm not saying that people should use 300
> >> >> gallons
> >> >> of water for a bath - just an illustration)
> >> >
> >> > Yet water is rarely reused. There are a few exceptions where water is
> >> > recycled. In some parts of California, they are planning on purifying
> >> > the
> >> > water and injecting it back into the ground. Some people recycle
> >>
> >> Well perhaps, if you exclude the largest source of recycled water,
> >> RAIN...
> >
> > Much rainwater that falls in the USA is unfit for consumption without
> > some sort of treatment process, due to atmospheric pollution. Often,
> > that treatment is performed by another shrinking natural resource,
> > wetlands. Otherwise, it is performed by treating the municipal water
> > supply.
> >
> > 20% of irrigated land in the USA is supplied by the Ogallala Aquifer,
> > which consists of water trapped in sediment during the last ice age. It
> > is being consumed at four times the rate it is being replaced. Should
> > the aquifer go dry, that 20% of (highly productive) land will fall out
> > of production, as it doesn't receive enough rain to be productive on
> > rainfall alone.
> >
> > Aquifers, not rainfall, supply 60% of the fresh water in the USA, and
> > virtually all of them are being consumed faster than their recharge
> > rate.
> >
> > --Gene
> >
> >
>
> Consumed??? Wrong!!!
>
> con·sume : to destroy or expend by use; use up.

You neatly skipped the first definition:
"To take in as food; eat or drink up."


NO I DID NOT!

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
con·sume /k?n'sum/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[kuhn-soom] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
verb, -sumed, -sum·ing.
-verb (used with object)
1. to destroy or expend by use; use up.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Consume



However water is used, on this planet, it is almost NEVER consumed.



> It is water "before" being used, and it is still water after being used,
> at
> most, it has been moved, but certainly not consumed...

After "consumption" by a mammal, water is excreted, but is combined with
salts, sugars, acids, and proteins. It is then no longer fit for human
consumption. You can't drink urine, at least not for long, without
destroying your kidneys.

The separation of the water from the other components in urine requires
a large input of energy, for either filtration by reverse osmosis, or
distillation.

OR, simple natural evaporation and then again RAIN.


When used for irrigation, most of it is transported away by evaporation;
the remainder typically becomes contaminated by agricultural chemicals.

So, after the initial "use" of "fresh" water, it isn't fresh anymore.

It damn sure is after it returns from a state of vapor back into
(technically) distilled hence FRESH water...

So you don't start making stories up about simple definitions.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
dis·til·la·tion /?d?stl'e???n/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled
Pronunciation[dis-tl-ey-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
-noun 1. the volatilization or evaporation and subsequent condensation of a
liquid,




Water does not return to the acquifer as fast as it is being pumped out.
Acquifer levels in the USA and elsewhere ARE dropping; they WILL go dry
if current withdrawal rates continue.

NEVER addressed or argued that point, and it still is irrelevant to your
silly position that all the "fresh" water on the planet is being consumed...
Hogwash!


> Besides, in many areas of the world including in the USA, humans can and
> do
> DRINK rain water.

Of course they do. And thanks to rapid and widespread
industrialization, they are also drinking carbonic, sulphuric, and
nitric acid, along with copper, radionucleides, pesticides, arsenic,
lead, and coliform bacteria.


> http://www.auerhaus.org/systems/rainwater.htm

Sorry, this is one guy's blog on building a home and capturing
rainwater; he is wrong in his first statement that rainwater is
"naturally clean".


Sorry you are wrong, he IS drinking it!


Better sources of information:

Where is the link???

Quantitative microbial risk assessment with respect to Campylobacter
spp. in toilets flushed with harvested rainwater
Water and Environment Journal 21 (4), 275?280.
doi:10.1111/j.1747-6593.2007.00088.x

Trace element contamination of rain water in the semi-arid region of
Kano, Nigeria
Author(s): J.T. Ayodele, M.B. Abubakar
Environmental Management and Health
ISSN: 0956-6163
Year: 1998 Volume: 9 Issue: 4 Page: 176 - 181
DOI: 10.1108/09566169810229006
Publisher: MCB UP Ltd

Organochlorine pesticides in rainwater, Oahu, Hawaii, 1971?1972
Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology
ISSN 0007-4861 (Print) 1432-0800 (Online)
Issue Volume 8, Number 4 / October, 1972
DOI 10.1007/BF01839519
Pages 238-241


--Gene

"Bruce L. Bergman" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:44:13 -0800, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> > wrote:
> ><clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
> .. .
> >> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:39:48 GMT, Jeff >
> >> wrote:
>
> >> Same thing happened when the 1MB hard rive (I think it was) was
> >> replaced with a 2 MB - at any rate the capacity was doubled. They put
> >> the double capacity hard drive in as a normal drive with the small
> >> capacity, and the expensive upgrade just re-jumpered the drive.
> >
> >I ran across this trick on my father's 80286 clone AT system back
> >in the late 80's. He had a 20MB disk in
> >his computer and me being young and interested in DOS, one day
> >I copied his data files to floppies and ran fdisk to go through the
> >motions of installing DOS, just to see how it was done. I was very
> >surprised to see fdisk reporting the disk as having 40MB. When I
> >pulled the cover and looked up the info for the disk, it was indeed
> >a 40MB disk drive. The dealership that had sold him the computer
> >had fdisked the disk up as a 20MB disk.
>
> Early versions of MS-DOS 2.x and 3.x could only address IIRC 24MB of
> hard drive,

DOS 2.0 released March 1983 supported hard disks

DOS 3.0, released August 1984, supported 32MB partitions

Compaq DOS 3.31 supported larger than 32MB partitions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS

The 80286 was released Feb 1982 Originally mostly going to IBM, clones
using this CPU were widely available by 1984 (the '386 was released in '86)

> and yet hard drives had already passed that point - so
> rather than pay extra for a real 20MB drive, they installed a 40MB for
> less and only formatted it to the 20MB the computer could address.

Nice try. ;-) Unsupported by the timeline. In any case, my father's system
shipped with DOS 4.01 on it. Remember, as I said, I fdisked and reformatted
with the DOS that was on the hard disk, I didn't say anything about buying
new DOS.

I did actually buy a copy of DOS 3.3 a few years later, for an XT that I
built from
parts. This was in 1988-1989. I bought a new XT motherboard for it rather
than a new 286 board for it because at the time, the XT board was cheaper,
and ran all of the software I had that the 286 system would run. I bought
the DOS 3.3 rather than pirate 4.01 from my fathers system because
command.com
was smaller, and I didn't know anyone with a copy of DOS 3.3

Amazing to think that all happened 20 years ago. Today, the only thing I
have
left from that setup is the table that I used to hold that computer gear,
all of the
gear itself has long since gone to the great computer junkyard in the sky.

And the worst of all - I also own a chevy station wagon that was
manufactured
5 years -before- any of that computer gear, and still runs, still is
compatible
with the streets and highways and fuel, and still would have resale value if
I
were to put it on the market.

There is a lesson somewhere there I think ;-)

Ted

My Name Is Nobody wrote:

I think the discussion on the word consumed is semantics. I have no
trouble using the word 'consumed' to describe someone pumping water out
of the ground and drinking it or whatever. But for someone to take
further liberties and say that simply because the word 'consumed' is
used to describe that, that it further means that it is forever no
longer available is dishonest. These are the same people arguing
global warming with their faked science and justifying Al Gore using 20
times more energy than the average household with the carbon credits
economy. It's called dishonesty and fraud.

> Hogwash!

That too will evaporate and return as rain.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

My Name Is Nobody wrote:
> "Gene S. Berkowitz" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> In article <lkjej.886$nN5.202@trndny04>, says...
>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>> news:60iej.1373$jX4.873@trnddc07...
>>>> Bill Putney wrote:
>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The American Museum of Natural History in NYC has a neat exhibition
>>>>>> called something like H2O - the stuff of life, that looks at how much
>>>>>> water people, especially Americans, use, as well as the large amount
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> water it takes to grow the food to feed a cow for a single quarter
>>>>>> pounder with cheese compared to the water to grow crops for the same
>>>>>> amount of food energy say in a loaf of bread or a few ears of corn or
>>>>>> other vegetables (not even adjusting for the toys).
>>>>> But water is not permanently converted or bound up once it is used.
>>>>> It
>>>>> gets released (OK - recycled) in short order. The only thing that
>>>>> would
>>>>> make it globally scarce is if it gets bound up for long periods of
>>>>> time.
>>>>> IOW - if I use 300 gallons of water to take one bath, it's not lost.
>>>>> It's
>>>>> pretty much immediately available for use (perhaps after some
>>>>> processing). (and no - I'm not saying that people should use 300
>>>>> gallons
>>>>> of water for a bath - just an illustration)
>>>> Yet water is rarely reused. There are a few exceptions where water is
>>>> recycled. In some parts of California, they are planning on purifying
>>>> the
>>>> water and injecting it back into the ground. Some people recycle
>>> Well perhaps, if you exclude the largest source of recycled water,
>>> RAIN...
>> Much rainwater that falls in the USA is unfit for consumption without
>> some sort of treatment process, due to atmospheric pollution. Often,
>> that treatment is performed by another shrinking natural resource,
>> wetlands. Otherwise, it is performed by treating the municipal water
>> supply.
>>
>> 20% of irrigated land in the USA is supplied by the Ogallala Aquifer,
>> which consists of water trapped in sediment during the last ice age. It
>> is being consumed at four times the rate it is being replaced. Should
>> the aquifer go dry, that 20% of (highly productive) land will fall out
>> of production, as it doesn't receive enough rain to be productive on
>> rainfall alone.
>>
>> Aquifers, not rainfall, supply 60% of the fresh water in the USA, and
>> virtually all of them are being consumed faster than their recharge
>> rate.
>>
>> --Gene
>>
>>
>
> Consumed??? Wrong!!!
>
> con·sume : to destroy or expend by use; use up.
>
> It is water "before" being used, and it is still water after being used, at
> most, it has been moved, but certainly not consumed...

Yet, after one consumes the water in beer, people don't think of the
resulting stream something to be consumed again, although it has been
used to water many a tree and bush.

Yes, it is still water, but it is no longer potable water, but rather it
is wastewater. In theory, it is still usable, but in practice, it is
rarely recycled before landing in an ocean or evaporating. For all
practicable purposes, freshwater is limited resource than can only be
increased through conservation (essentially allowing the rainwater to
accumulate in the water table, marshes, etc.) or through expensive
processing of either wastewater or seawater.

More importantly, usable fresh water is natural resource that is
becoming scarce in many areas because people are using so much of it for
silly things, like using 5 gallons of fresh water to flush down 8 oz of
urine (as opposed to a 1.6 flush toilet or better yet, following the if
it is yellow, let it mellow, it's brown flush it down rule and following
with a 1.6 gallon flush rather than a 5 gallon flush)> The water table
has fallen in many areas of the US and other areas of the world because
humans use up so much water. In addition, human divert a lot of water
with damns and waterways, drain marshes like the Florida Everglades and
do other things with use up the freshwater.

Jeff

> Besides, in many areas of the world including in the USA, humans can and do
> DRINK rain water.
>
> http://www.auerhaus.org/systems/rainwater.htm
>
>
>

Bill Putney wrote:
> My Name Is Nobody wrote:
>
> I think the discussion on the word consumed is semantics. I have no
> trouble using the word 'consumed' to describe someone pumping water out
> of the ground and drinking it or whatever. But for someone to take
> further liberties and say that simply because the word 'consumed' is
> used to describe that, that it further means that it is forever no
> longer available is dishonest. These are the same people arguing
> global warming with their faked science and justifying Al Gore using 20
> times more energy than the average household with the carbon credits
> economy. It's called dishonesty and fraud.

George Bush? George W. Bush has accepted that global warming is real for
years. However, I don't think that buying offsets (which is different
than carbon credits) makes up for putting all the CO2 in the atmosphere.

One of the reasons why Gore has such high energy bills is that he has a
staff working in his home. However, that still doesn't explain why his
home uses so much more power than Bush's home in Texas (Bush's home is
much more energy efficient).

>> Hogwash!
>
> That too will evaporate and return as rain.

Yet it won't return to the same spot it was used. Most rain falls in the
ocean. It is not a question of how much water is on earth, but rather
how much fresh water is available to humans where the humans are.

Jeff


> Bill Putney
> (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
> address with the letter 'x')

Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
> "Bruce L. Bergman" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:44:13 -0800, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
>> > wrote:
>>> <clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:39:48 GMT, Jeff >
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Same thing happened when the 1MB hard rive (I think it was) was
>>>> replaced with a 2 MB - at any rate the capacity was doubled. They put
>>>> the double capacity hard drive in as a normal drive with the small
>>>> capacity, and the expensive upgrade just re-jumpered the drive.
>>> I ran across this trick on my father's 80286 clone AT system back
>>> in the late 80's. He had a 20MB disk in
>>> his computer and me being young and interested in DOS, one day
>>> I copied his data files to floppies and ran fdisk to go through the
>>> motions of installing DOS, just to see how it was done. I was very
>>> surprised to see fdisk reporting the disk as having 40MB. When I
>>> pulled the cover and looked up the info for the disk, it was indeed
>>> a 40MB disk drive. The dealership that had sold him the computer
>>> had fdisked the disk up as a 20MB disk.
>> Early versions of MS-DOS 2.x and 3.x could only address IIRC 24MB of
>> hard drive,
>
> DOS 2.0 released March 1983 supported hard disks
>
> DOS 3.0, released August 1984, supported 32MB partitions
>
> Compaq DOS 3.31 supported larger than 32MB partitions
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS
>
> The 80286 was released Feb 1982 Originally mostly going to IBM, clones
> using this CPU were widely available by 1984 (the '386 was released in '86)
>
>> and yet hard drives had already passed that point - so
>> rather than pay extra for a real 20MB drive, they installed a 40MB for
>> less and only formatted it to the 20MB the computer could address.
>
> Nice try. ;-) Unsupported by the timeline. In any case, my father's system
> shipped with DOS 4.01 on it. Remember, as I said, I fdisked and reformatted
> with the DOS that was on the hard disk, I didn't say anything about buying
> new DOS.
>
> I did actually buy a copy of DOS 3.3 a few years later, for an XT that I
> built from
> parts. This was in 1988-1989. I bought a new XT motherboard for it rather
> than a new 286 board for it because at the time, the XT board was cheaper,
> and ran all of the software I had that the 286 system would run. I bought
> the DOS 3.3 rather than pirate 4.01 from my fathers system because
> command.com
> was smaller, and I didn't know anyone with a copy of DOS 3.3
>
> Amazing to think that all happened 20 years ago. Today, the only thing I
> have
> left from that setup is the table that I used to hold that computer gear,
> all of the
> gear itself has long since gone to the great computer junkyard in the sky.

Actually, the computer, with all the lead in it, has gone either to a
junkyard or possibly a recycling center. The only country that exports
its electronic waste is the US. This electronic waste may be the source
of lead in the paint on toys made in China from recycling the
contaminated plastic on the computer boards.

> And the worst of all - I also own a chevy station wagon that
> manufactured
> 5 years -before- any of that computer gear, and still runs, still is
> compatible
> with the streets and highways and fuel, and still would have resale value if
> I
> were to put it on the market.
>
> There is a lesson somewhere there I think ;-)

Your old 8088 computer (the XT) can access the internet (using Lynx - a
text based web browser) and be used as a server. There are, however,
much better options, like the 80186-based handheld and
one-laptop-per-child computer I have.

The old XT can also go to a museum.

Jeff

> Ted
>
>

Gene S. Berkowitz wrote:
> In article <OZEej.2461$yv5.2197@trndny07>, says...
>> "Gene S. Berkowitz" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> In article <lkjej.886$nN5.202@trndny04>, says...
>>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>>> news:60iej.1373$jX4.873@trnddc07...
>>>>> Bill Putney wrote:
>>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The American Museum of Natural History in NYC has a neat exhibition
>>>>>>> called something like H2O - the stuff of life, that looks at how much
>>>>>>> water people, especially Americans, use, as well as the large amount
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> water it takes to grow the food to feed a cow for a single quarter
>>>>>>> pounder with cheese compared to the water to grow crops for the same
>>>>>>> amount of food energy say in a loaf of bread or a few ears of corn or
>>>>>>> other vegetables (not even adjusting for the toys).
>>>>>> But water is not permanently converted or bound up once it is used.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> gets released (OK - recycled) in short order. The only thing that
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> make it globally scarce is if it gets bound up for long periods of
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>> IOW - if I use 300 gallons of water to take one bath, it's not lost.
>>>>>> It's
>>>>>> pretty much immediately available for use (perhaps after some
>>>>>> processing). (and no - I'm not saying that people should use 300
>>>>>> gallons
>>>>>> of water for a bath - just an illustration)
>>>>> Yet water is rarely reused. There are a few exceptions where water is
>>>>> recycled. In some parts of California, they are planning on purifying
>>>>> the
>>>>> water and injecting it back into the ground. Some people recycle
>>>> Well perhaps, if you exclude the largest source of recycled water,
>>>> RAIN...
>>> Much rainwater that falls in the USA is unfit for consumption without
>>> some sort of treatment process, due to atmospheric pollution. Often,
>>> that treatment is performed by another shrinking natural resource,
>>> wetlands. Otherwise, it is performed by treating the municipal water
>>> supply.
>>>
>>> 20% of irrigated land in the USA is supplied by the Ogallala Aquifer,
>>> which consists of water trapped in sediment during the last ice age. It
>>> is being consumed at four times the rate it is being replaced. Should
>>> the aquifer go dry, that 20% of (highly productive) land will fall out
>>> of production, as it doesn't receive enough rain to be productive on
>>> rainfall alone.
>>>
>>> Aquifers, not rainfall, supply 60% of the fresh water in the USA, and
>>> virtually all of them are being consumed faster than their recharge
>>> rate.
>>>
>>> --Gene
>>>
>>>
>> Consumed??? Wrong!!!
>>
>> con·sume : to destroy or expend by use; use up.
>
> You neatly skipped the first definition:
> "To take in as food; eat or drink up."
>
>> It is water "before" being used, and it is still water after being used, at
>> most, it has been moved, but certainly not consumed...
>
> After "consumption" by a mammal, water is excreted, but is combined with
> salts, sugars, acids, and proteins. It is then no longer fit for human
> consumption. You can't drink urine, at least not for long, without
> destroying your kidneys.

I disagree.

You can drink your own urine or the urine of someone else. It is
contaminated on the way our of the body in the urethra, but while in the
bladder, ureters and kidneys, it is sterile, unless there is an infection.

If you drink your urine, the stuff in the urine will further
metabolized, excreted again by the kidneys or pooped. Your kidneys won't
be harmed.

Personally, I figure my body expends a lot of energy to filter my blood
and make my urine. I don't want it back.

If God wanted us to drink our urine, there would be a straw from the
bladder to the mouth (actually, Bill Clinton did describe such a straw,
but it wasn't used for drinking urine).

> The separation of the water from the other components in urine requires
> a large input of energy, for either filtration by reverse osmosis, or
> distillation.
>
> When used for irrigation, most of it is transported away by evaporation;
> the remainder typically becomes contaminated by agricultural chemicals.
>
> So, after the initial "use" of "fresh" water, it isn't fresh anymore.
>
> Water does not return to the acquifer as fast as it is being pumped out.
> Acquifer levels in the USA and elsewhere ARE dropping; they WILL go dry
> if current withdrawal rates continue.

The current withdrawal rates won't continue in these areas. There won't
be anything left to withdraw.

Jeff


>
>> Besides, in many areas of the world including in the USA, humans can and do
>> DRINK rain water.
>
> Of course they do. And thanks to rapid and widespread
> industrialization, they are also drinking carbonic, sulphuric, and
> nitric acid, along with copper, radionucleides, pesticides, arsenic,
> lead, and coliform bacteria.
>
>
>> http://www.auerhaus.org/systems/rainwater.htm
>
> Sorry, this is one guy's blog on building a home and capturing
> rainwater; he is wrong in his first statement that rainwater is
> "naturally clean".
>
> Better sources of information:
>
> Quantitative microbial risk assessment with respect to Campylobacter
> spp. in toilets flushed with harvested rainwater
> Water and Environment Journal 21 (4), 275?280.
> doi:10.1111/j.1747-6593.2007.00088.x
>
> Trace element contamination of rain water in the semi-arid region of
> Kano, Nigeria
> Author(s): J.T. Ayodele, M.B. Abubakar
> Environmental Management and Health
> ISSN: 0956-6163
> Year: 1998 Volume: 9 Issue: 4 Page: 176 - 181
> DOI: 10.1108/09566169810229006
> Publisher: MCB UP Ltd
>
> Organochlorine pesticides in rainwater, Oahu, Hawaii, 1971?1972
> Bulletin of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology
> ISSN 0007-4861 (Print) 1432-0800 (Online)
> Issue Volume 8, Number 4 / October, 1972
> DOI 10.1007/BF01839519
> Pages 238-241
>
> --Gene
>

On Tue, 1 Jan 2008 20:44:13 -0800, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> wrote:

>
><clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 01 Jan 2008 13:39:48 GMT, Jeff >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Same thing happened when the 1MB hard rive (I think it was) was
>> replaced with a 2 MB - at any rate the capacity was doubled. They put
>> the double capacity hard drive in as a normal drive with the small
>> capacity, and the expensive upgrade just re-jumpered the drive.
>>
>
>I ran across this trick on my father's 80286 clone AT system back
>in the late 80's. He had a 20MB disk in
>his computer and me being young and interested in DOS, one day
>I copied his data files to floppies and ran fdisk to go through the
>motions of installing DOS, just to see how it was done. I was very
>surprised to see fdisk reporting the disk as having 40MB. When I
>pulled the cover and looked up the info for the disk, it was indeed
>a 40MB disk drive. The dealership that had sold him the computer
>had fdisked the disk up as a 20MB disk.
>
>Ted
>
Then there was the MFM vs RLL situation. A 30MB MFM drive could often
be used withan RLL drive controller and get 30MB. a 30MB RLL could
ALWAYS be installed as a 20MB on an MFM controller. Then there werer
sector size settings that could be changed too that affected useable
capacity.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com