Careless Driving in NJ

I was in an accident last week. I was driving in heavy rain. I was not
speeding. I saw the truck in front of me stopping or stopped. I started
to break realized I was not stopping so I slammed on the brakes and then
I knew I was going to hit. I rear ended the truck which totaled my car.
The truck got away with some bumper damage. No one was hurt and the
truck was not right in front of me when I noticed it stopping. I just
could not stop in the rain.

After the police arrived and checked the scene the officer came up to
the window and would not look at me while he said "Unfortunately do to
the amount of damage to your vehicle. I have to give you a ticket for
careless driving. It is a 2 point ticket. Plead not guilty and on the
court date come and see me and we will try to get it down to zero points."

Now I know I am at fault for rear ending someone. In NJ at least you are
automatically at fault in a rear end situation.

I just am trying to figure out if I should get a lawyer or if I should
just show up and talk to the officer and prosecutor like the officer
said. I have gotten advice in both directions and right now am very
confused.

M wrote:

> I was in an accident last week. I was driving in heavy rain. I was not
> speeding. I saw the truck in front of me stopping or stopped. I started
> to break realized I was not stopping so I slammed on the brakes and then
> I knew I was going to hit. I rear ended the truck which totaled my car.
> The truck got away with some bumper damage. No one was hurt and the
> truck was not right in front of me when I noticed it stopping. I just
> could not stop in the rain.

Next time, be sure to get better tires and leave plenty of following
distance. Also, make sure you have a good set of wiper blades and
consider using Rain-x for better visibility.

> I just am trying to figure out if I should get a lawyer or if I should
> just show up and talk to the officer and prosecutor like the officer
> said. I have gotten advice in both directions and right now am very
> confused.

Compare the cost of the ticket plus insurance surcharges versus the
lawyer's fee plus the no point violation cost.

You should go to court before the court date to get an idea of how cases
are handled before your turn comes up. It may turn out that you won't
need a lawyer to plea down to a no points violation.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, M wrote:

> I was in an accident last week. I was driving in heavy rain. I was not
> speeding. I saw the truck in front of me stopping or stopped. I started
> to break realized I was not stopping so I slammed on the brakes and then
> I knew I was going to hit. I rear ended the truck

But, you *were* speeding. Speeding doesn't just mean going faster than a
number on a sign, it means going too fast for prevailing conditions. There
are times when 15mph is too fast for prevailing conditions!

> I just could not stop in the rain.

You just could not stop because you were skidding or aquaplaning, because
you were going too fast for conditions, on unsuitable tires, and not
leaving enough space between yourself and the vehicle.

> After the police arrived and checked the scene the officer came up to
> the window and would not look at me while he said "Unfortunately do to
> the amount of damage to your vehicle. I have to give you a ticket for
> careless driving.

Sounds like an appropriate and deserved citation, to me. You were several
different kinds of careless.

> It is a 2 point ticket. Plead not guilty and on the court date come and
> see me and we will try to get it down to zero points."

Here's hoping the judge or magistrate won't have it.

> Now I know I am at fault for rear ending someone. In NJ at least you are
> automatically at fault in a rear end situation.

This isn't a matter of what NJ law says, it's a matter of you being
careless.

> I just am trying to figure out if I should get a lawyer or if I should
> just show up and talk to the officer and prosecutor like the officer
> said. I have gotten advice in both directions and right now am very
> confused.

"Right now"?

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:43:55 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern" >
wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, M wrote:
>
>> I was in an accident last week. I was driving in heavy rain. I was not
>> speeding. I saw the truck in front of me stopping or stopped. I started
>> to break realized I was not stopping so I slammed on the brakes and then
>> I knew I was going to hit. I rear ended the truck
>
>But, you *were* speeding. Speeding doesn't just mean going faster than a
>number on a sign, it means going too fast for prevailing conditions. There
>are times when 15mph is too fast for prevailing conditions!

But he _wasn't_ "speeding". "Speeding" _is_ going faster than the numbers on
the sign. He was "Driving too fast for conditions" which is what a ticket
would say if he got it just for going too fast for conditions.

>> I just could not stop in the rain.
>
>You just could not stop because you were skidding or aquaplaning, because
>you were going too fast for conditions, on unsuitable tires, and not
>leaving enough space between yourself and the vehicle.

You have to be able to _see_ the car in front before you know you're too close
to it. In heavy rain, U can get too close to it before you can actually see
it. In those conditions, its _also_ equally dangerous to go very slow, as you
may get hit by someone else that also cannot see you in time to be able to stop
or slow sufficiently.

Some conditions are just too bad to drive in safely.

>
>> After the police arrived and checked the scene the officer came up to
>> the window and would not look at me while he said "Unfortunately do to
>> the amount of damage to your vehicle. I have to give you a ticket for
>> careless driving.
>
>Sounds like an appropriate and deserved citation, to me. You were several
>different kinds of careless.

Or maybe simply not experienced enough to be able to recognize this as a
dangerous situation.

>> It is a 2 point ticket. Plead not guilty and on the court date come and
>> see me and we will try to get it down to zero points."
>
>Here's hoping the judge or magistrate won't have it.

I'm surprised someone hasn't jumped in with the standard, "You're too stupid to
drive" line, and how he ought to have his licensed revoked forever, etc. This
is _not_ the group to come to for rational discussion of a problem, or much of
anything else except maybe entertaining rants...

>> Now I know I am at fault for rear ending someone. In NJ at least you are
>> automatically at fault in a rear end situation.
>
>This isn't a matter of what NJ law says, it's a matter of you being
>careless.

Or simply inexperienced enough to not recognize the dangerous situation.

>> I just am trying to figure out if I should get a lawyer or if I should
>> just show up and talk to the officer and prosecutor like the officer
>> said. I have gotten advice in both directions and right now am very
>> confused.

Get a lawyer. Can't hurt, might help.

Dave Head

M wrote:

> I was in an accident last week. I was driving in heavy rain. I was not
> speeding. I saw the truck in front of me stopping or stopped. I started
> to break realized I was not stopping so I slammed on the brakes and then
> I knew I was going to hit. I rear ended the truck which totaled my car.

When you get a new car, grab some road cones and practice
wet-weather braking. Slamming on the brakes is not the right
thing to do: the stopping distance for a car sliding over water is
much longer than for a car that is braking less heavily but the
tyres have maintained traction.

> After the police arrived and checked the scene the officer came up to
> the window and would not look at me while he said "Unfortunately do to
> the amount of damage to your vehicle. I have to give you a ticket for
> careless driving. It is a 2 point ticket. Plead not guilty and on the
> court date come and see me and we will try to get it down to zero points."

Sounds about right to me. Either you weren't keeping a proper
following distance (reckless driving), did not notice that the truck
stopped when it did (careless driving), or your tyres are too worn
(also illegal in most alreas). The only way I can think of that
the truck could be held partially responsible, is if its brake lights
were not working.

Always go to court with a lawyer when it has something to do with
points or suspension.


Always.

If his retainer is $500- $1,000 you will saving money in the long run--
especially in NJ.

Old Wolf wrote:
> M wrote:
>
> > I was in an accident last week. I was driving in heavy rain. I was not
> > speeding. I saw the truck in front of me stopping or stopped. I started
> > to break realized I was not stopping so I slammed on the brakes and then
> > I knew I was going to hit. I rear ended the truck which totaled my car.
>
> When you get a new car, grab some road cones and practice
> wet-weather braking. Slamming on the brakes is not the right
> thing to do: the stopping distance for a car sliding over water is
> much longer than for a car that is braking less heavily but the
> tyres have maintained traction.
>
>

Good advice. Also -steer- out of accidents. There isn't enough
information in the OP to tell but there are few places on public roads
where you can't take at least some avoidance action. Once you lock up
your tires, you have lost all control over your vehicle and you are
just going along for the ride.

Harry K

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:29:34 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:43:55 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern" >
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, M wrote:

>You have to be able to _see_ the car in front before you know you're too close
>to it. In heavy rain, U can get too close to it before you can actually see
>it. In those conditions, its _also_ equally dangerous to go very slow, as you
>may get hit by someone else that also cannot see you in time to be able to stop
>or slow sufficiently.
>
>Some conditions are just too bad to drive in safely.

Which is why it is better to go faster than slower, because then YOU
have control over whether YOU have an accident. When you go too slow,
you have no control over an accident from behind.

In article >,
M > wrote:

> I was in an accident last week. I was driving in heavy rain. I was not
> speeding. I saw the truck in front of me stopping or stopped. I started
> to break realized I was not stopping so I slammed on the brakes and then
> I knew I was going to hit. I rear ended the truck which totaled my car.
> The truck got away with some bumper damage. No one was hurt and the
> truck was not right in front of me when I noticed it stopping. I just
> could not stop in the rain.
>
> After the police arrived and checked the scene the officer came up to
> the window and would not look at me while he said "Unfortunately do to
> the amount of damage to your vehicle. I have to give you a ticket for
> careless driving. It is a 2 point ticket. Plead not guilty and on the
> court date come and see me and we will try to get it down to zero points."
>
> Now I know I am at fault for rear ending someone. In NJ at least you are
> automatically at fault in a rear end situation.
>
> I just am trying to figure out if I should get a lawyer or if I should
> just show up and talk to the officer and prosecutor like the officer
> said. I have gotten advice in both directions and right now am very
> confused.

When I was in an accident in Dennis Township in NJ a few years ago, I
was given a ticket for improper passing. I clipped a pickup truck while
trying to avoid it by driving on the shoulder of a narrow road and I hit
a utility pole. My car was not totaled, but the damage was $6K.

Since I live more than 50 miles from Dennis Township, I was permitted to
argue my case via snail mail even though I am a NJ resident. The cop who
cited me said much the same thing you were told. The cop told me I could
probably get the points dismissed entirely since this was a freak
accident. Not only were the points dismissed, but the judge threw out
the ticket entirely, so I also didn't have to pay a fine.

Unfortunately, State Farm was not as understanding as the judge. They
dropped my policy and I got reamed up the ass to go into assigned risk.

In my situation, the only thing an attorney would have done is lighten
my wallet, but I am a very persuasive person and the facts were in my
favor. You have to decide if you can persuade a judge to dismiss your
ticket? How persuasive are you? In your situation, an attorney might be
beneficial, esp. if you are not a persuasive person and since by your
own admission, you were driving carelessly (i.e., too fast to come to a
safe stop).

Good luck!

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 21:03:36 -0600, DTJ > wrote:

>On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:29:34 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:43:55 -0500, "Daniel J. Stern" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 28 Nov 2005, M wrote:
>
>>You have to be able to _see_ the car in front before you know you're too close
>>to it. In heavy rain, U can get too close to it before you can actually see
>>it. In those conditions, its _also_ equally dangerous to go very slow, as you
>>may get hit by someone else that also cannot see you in time to be able to stop
>>or slow sufficiently.
>>
>>Some conditions are just too bad to drive in safely.
>
>Which is why it is better to go faster than slower, because then YOU
>have control over whether YOU have an accident. When you go too slow,
>you have no control over an accident from behind.

Exactly. But you shouldn't go so fast that you can't avoid a stopped car in
the road. If you can't do this, then its just too darn dangerous, indicating
that the best course of action is to pull off the road and wait for better
conditions. The rain has to let up sometime.

Dave Head