1993 Caravan OH console on a '92...?

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:02:09 -0400, clare wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 10:31:42 -0400, Hachiroku ???? > wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:57:33 -0700, wws wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm always looking for something for free. Isn't that what the
>>>> Internet, and especially the groups for? To pick brains?
>>>>
>>>> Other than that, will the $25 cover only ONE vehicle, or the 4 I have
>>>> on the road currently?
>>>
>>> I wouldn't say pick.
>>> I would however say share.
>>> Everyone brings something to the table. Your wiring fable says to me
>>> you have not seen even one wire, much less counted them.
>>
>>Does anyone know WTF this idiot is talking about? "Wiring fable"? I used
>>to wire up large aircraft engine controls, point to point.
>>
>>So here's the fable: I have a bundle of wires sticking out from the
>>headliner that are supposed to attach to an overhead console. The
>>connector has been cut off. So, do you have an idea what wire goes where,
>>or where I can get a wiring diagram so I can rewire it myself, or are you
>>just going to be a big mouth with nothing to say, but are going to say
>>it anyway?
> Go to youtr local library and see if they have a manual. Second
> choice subscribe to Aldata or see if anyone around your area has the
> computerised manuals that can print you out the diagram. Can't remember
> the name of the program - but most garages use either it or Aldata now.

I actuall did find a reference in a Dodge forum, with a link to the manual
pages.

The only problem I have with Alldata is the way it is used. I brought a
car to a place for a timing belt and a water pump. The belt drives the
water pump, so when you remove the belt, the pump is right there, right?

OK, so then "Flat Rate" comes into play: They have to remove the covers,
idlers, etc to get the belt out. The water pump is three more bolts. The
were going to charge me the price, according to Alldata's "Flat Rate" to
change the timing belt, and THEN charge me Alldata's "Flat rate" to remove
the water pump, which means charging me for the removal and reinsatllation
of the timing belt ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Pay for labor you're doing once,
twice? No thanks.

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:

> ...The only problem I have with Alldata is the way it is used. I brought a
> car to a place for a timing belt and a water pump. The belt drives the
> water pump, so when you remove the belt, the pump is right there, right?
>
> OK, so then "Flat Rate" comes into play: They have to remove the covers,
> idlers, etc to get the belt out. The water pump is three more bolts. The
> were going to charge me the price, according to Alldata's "Flat Rate" to
> change the timing belt, and THEN charge me Alldata's "Flat rate" to remove
> the water pump, which means charging me for the removal and reinsatllation
> of the timing belt ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Pay for labor you're doing once,
> twice? No thanks.

You can't blame Alldata for that. That's the individual shop's policy
to strictly observe flat rate contrary to common sense and ethics.
Otherwise, on a given procedure, alldata would have to come up with a
list of all permutations of job combinations. There has to be some
place for the shop's discretion and common sense in adjusting things
accordingly. Those that use flat rate as an excuse to commit fraud
(possibly not legal fraud, but certainly ethical fraud) are ones that I
would choose not to do business with.

--
Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:13:16 -0400, Hachiroku ???? >
wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:02:09 -0400, clare wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 10:31:42 -0400, Hachiroku ???? > wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:57:33 -0700, wws wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I'm always looking for something for free. Isn't that what the
>>>>> Internet, and especially the groups for? To pick brains?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than that, will the $25 cover only ONE vehicle, or the 4 I have
>>>>> on the road currently?
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't say pick.
>>>> I would however say share.
>>>> Everyone brings something to the table. Your wiring fable says to me
>>>> you have not seen even one wire, much less counted them.
>>>
>>>Does anyone know WTF this idiot is talking about? "Wiring fable"? I used
>>>to wire up large aircraft engine controls, point to point.
>>>
>>>So here's the fable: I have a bundle of wires sticking out from the
>>>headliner that are supposed to attach to an overhead console. The
>>>connector has been cut off. So, do you have an idea what wire goes where,
>>>or where I can get a wiring diagram so I can rewire it myself, or are you
>>>just going to be a big mouth with nothing to say, but are going to say
>>>it anyway?
>> Go to youtr local library and see if they have a manual. Second
>> choice subscribe to Aldata or see if anyone around your area has the
>> computerised manuals that can print you out the diagram. Can't remember
>> the name of the program - but most garages use either it or Aldata now.
>
>I actuall did find a reference in a Dodge forum, with a link to the manual
>pages.
>
>The only problem I have with Alldata is the way it is used. I brought a
>car to a place for a timing belt and a water pump. The belt drives the
>water pump, so when you remove the belt, the pump is right there, right?
>
>OK, so then "Flat Rate" comes into play: They have to remove the covers,
>idlers, etc to get the belt out. The water pump is three more bolts. The
>were going to charge me the price, according to Alldata's "Flat Rate" to
>change the timing belt, and THEN charge me Alldata's "Flat rate" to remove
>the water pump, which means charging me for the removal and reinsatllation
>of the timing belt ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Pay for labor you're doing once,
>twice? No thanks.
>
>
The proper charge is R&R water pump - it includes the belt - as any
honest mechanic would do it.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 05:49:41 -0400, Bill Putney >
wrote:

>Hachiroku ???? wrote:
>
>> ...The only problem I have with Alldata is the way it is used. I brought a
>> car to a place for a timing belt and a water pump. The belt drives the
>> water pump, so when you remove the belt, the pump is right there, right?
>>
>> OK, so then "Flat Rate" comes into play: They have to remove the covers,
>> idlers, etc to get the belt out. The water pump is three more bolts. The
>> were going to charge me the price, according to Alldata's "Flat Rate" to
>> change the timing belt, and THEN charge me Alldata's "Flat rate" to remove
>> the water pump, which means charging me for the removal and reinsatllation
>> of the timing belt ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Pay for labor you're doing once,
>> twice? No thanks.
>
>You can't blame Alldata for that. That's the individual shop's policy
>to strictly observe flat rate contrary to common sense and ethics.
>Otherwise, on a given procedure, alldata would have to come up with a
>list of all permutations of job combinations. There has to be some
>place for the shop's discretion and common sense in adjusting things
>accordingly. Those that use flat rate as an excuse to commit fraud
>(possibly not legal fraud, but certainly ethical fraud) are ones that I
>would choose not to do business with.
Don't know about Alldata, but Mitchell on Demand - the other one I
was trying to think of, there ARE combination charges listed.

As there are on most factory flat rate manuals.
But the guy reading the manual still needs to have (and use) a brain.

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:02:09 -0400, clare wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 10:31:42 -0400, Hachiroku ???? > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:57:33 -0700, wws wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I'm always looking for something for free. Isn't that what the
>>>>> Internet, and especially the groups for? To pick brains?
>>>>>
>>>>> Other than that, will the $25 cover only ONE vehicle, or the 4 I have
>>>>> on the road currently?
>>>> I wouldn't say pick.
>>>> I would however say share.
>>>> Everyone brings something to the table. Your wiring fable says to me
>>>> you have not seen even one wire, much less counted them.
>>> Does anyone know WTF this idiot is talking about? "Wiring fable"? I used
>>> to wire up large aircraft engine controls, point to point.
>>>
>>> So here's the fable: I have a bundle of wires sticking out from the
>>> headliner that are supposed to attach to an overhead console. The
>>> connector has been cut off. So, do you have an idea what wire goes where,
>>> or where I can get a wiring diagram so I can rewire it myself, or are you
>>> just going to be a big mouth with nothing to say, but are going to say
>>> it anyway?
>> Go to youtr local library and see if they have a manual. Second
>> choice subscribe to Aldata or see if anyone around your area has the
>> computerised manuals that can print you out the diagram. Can't remember
>> the name of the program - but most garages use either it or Aldata now.
>
> I actuall did find a reference in a Dodge forum, with a link to the manual
> pages.
>
> The only problem I have with Alldata is the way it is used. I brought a
> car to a place for a timing belt and a water pump. The belt drives the
> water pump, so when you remove the belt, the pump is right there, right?
>
> OK, so then "Flat Rate" comes into play: They have to remove the covers,
> idlers, etc to get the belt out. The water pump is three more bolts. The
> were going to charge me the price, according to Alldata's "Flat Rate" to
> change the timing belt, and THEN charge me Alldata's "Flat rate" to remove
> the water pump, which means charging me for the removal and reinsatllation
> of the timing belt ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Pay for labor you're doing once,
> twice? No thanks.
>
>
>
Every garage I have ever used for major repairs, always assumed a water
pump swapout was part of a timing belt change, and quoted it that way.
Not many people keep a car long enough for a timing belt change, and
those that do usually know why they should be changed at the same time.

--
aem sends...

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 19:53:15 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 16:02:09 -0400, clare wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 10:31:42 -0400, Hachiroku ???? >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:57:33 -0700, wws wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I'm always looking for something for free. Isn't that what the
>>>>>> Internet, and especially the groups for? To pick brains?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other than that, will the $25 cover only ONE vehicle, or the 4 I
>>>>>> have on the road currently?
>>>>> I wouldn't say pick.
>>>>> I would however say share.
>>>>> Everyone brings something to the table. Your wiring fable says to me
>>>>> you have not seen even one wire, much less counted them.
>>>> Does anyone know WTF this idiot is talking about? "Wiring fable"? I
>>>> used to wire up large aircraft engine controls, point to point.
>>>>
>>>> So here's the fable: I have a bundle of wires sticking out from the
>>>> headliner that are supposed to attach to an overhead console. The
>>>> connector has been cut off. So, do you have an idea what wire goes
>>>> where, or where I can get a wiring diagram so I can rewire it myself,
>>>> or are you just going to be a big mouth with nothing to say, but are
>>>> going to say it anyway?
>>> Go to youtr local library and see if they have a manual. Second
>>> choice subscribe to Aldata or see if anyone around your area has the
>>> computerised manuals that can print you out the diagram. Can't remember
>>> the name of the program - but most garages use either it or Aldata now.
>>
>> I actuall did find a reference in a Dodge forum, with a link to the
>> manual pages.
>>
>> The only problem I have with Alldata is the way it is used. I brought a
>> car to a place for a timing belt and a water pump. The belt drives the
>> water pump, so when you remove the belt, the pump is right there, right?
>>
>> OK, so then "Flat Rate" comes into play: They have to remove the covers,
>> idlers, etc to get the belt out. The water pump is three more bolts. The
>> were going to charge me the price, according to Alldata's "Flat Rate" to
>> change the timing belt, and THEN charge me Alldata's "Flat rate" to
>> remove the water pump, which means charging me for the removal and
>> reinsatllation of the timing belt ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Pay for labor you're
>> doing once, twice? No thanks.
>>
>>
>>
> Every garage I have ever used for major repairs, always assumed a water
> pump swapout was part of a timing belt change, and quoted it that way. Not
> many people keep a car long enough for a timing belt change, and those
> that do usually know why they should be changed at the same time.

I just wait till mine break, usually at the edge of the middle of nowhere,
at 5:00 in the afternoon, on a Friday...

Good thing I have non-interference engines...

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 16:39:10 -0400, clare wrote:

>>OK, so then "Flat Rate" comes into play: They have to remove the covers,
>>idlers, etc to get the belt out. The water pump is three more bolts. The
>>were going to charge me the price, according to Alldata's "Flat Rate" to
>>change the timing belt, and THEN charge me Alldata's "Flat rate" to
>>remove the water pump, which means charging me for the removal and
>>reinsatllation of the timing belt ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Pay for labor you're
>>doing once, twice? No thanks.
>>
>>
> The proper charge is R&R water pump - it includes the belt - as any honest
> mechanic would do it.

You know that. I know that. They DON'T know that I know that!

On Mon, 12 Apr 2010 05:49:41 -0400, Bill Putney wrote:

> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>
>> ...The only problem I have with Alldata is the way it is used. I brought
>> a car to a place for a timing belt and a water pump. The belt drives the
>> water pump, so when you remove the belt, the pump is right there, right?
>>
>> OK, so then "Flat Rate" comes into play: They have to remove the covers,
>> idlers, etc to get the belt out. The water pump is three more bolts. The
>> were going to charge me the price, according to Alldata's "Flat Rate" to
>> change the timing belt, and THEN charge me Alldata's "Flat rate" to
>> remove the water pump, which means charging me for the removal and
>> reinsatllation of the timing belt ALL OVER AGAIN!!! Pay for labor you're
>> doing once, twice? No thanks.
>
> You can't blame Alldata for that. That's the individual shop's policy to
> strictly observe flat rate contrary to common sense and ethics. Otherwise,
> on a given procedure, alldata would have to come up with a list of all
> permutations of job combinations. There has to be some place for the
> shop's discretion and common sense in adjusting things accordingly. Those
> that use flat rate as an excuse to commit fraud (possibly not legal fraud,
> but certainly ethical fraud) are ones that I would choose not to do
> business with.


And I don't! I took it to an hourly shop that charged me $180, including
the belt and the pump!

Problem with that is, if they run itno a problem you pay the hourly rate.
The best ones are the ones that do the flat rate for the one most
expensive job. If it runs over, it's on them. If it goes stunningly well,
they make out.

In article
>,
wws > wrote:
I would go to a boneyard, and cut your own connector from a 91-95 and
match up the wires. Most yards are have a good selection of these vans
(T&C, Voyager and Caravan) get it before they crush them.


> On Apr 9, 9:35 pm, Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B > wrote:
> > On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 22:21:59 -0400, Bill Putney wrote:
> > > Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B wrote:
> > >> I bought a '93 OH console with the digital display but the guy I bought
> > >> the van from cut the harness! I could go to a bone yard and try to find
> > >> one; other than that is there any way to get a diagram of the wiring so
> > >> I can try to cob one together?
> >
> > >> I already Googled. Hopefully someone has some first-hand info...?
> >
> > > You're probably looking for something free, but if you were willing to
> > > spend $25 bucks for it, you could get a 1 year subscription to
> > >www.alldata.com, which would include the factory schematics specific to
> > > the year and vehicle.
> >
> > I'm always looking for something for free. Isn't that what the Internet,
> > and especially the groups for? To pick brains?
> >
> > Other than that, will the $25 cover only ONE vehicle, or the 4 I have on
> > the road currently?
>
> I wouldn't say pick.
> I would however say share.
> Everyone brings something to the table.
> Your wiring fable says to me you have not seen even one wire, much
> less counted them.
> FAIL!