home bodywork/paint/rust protection question

This is going to sound like an obscure problem, but it's *my* problem,
so I'm going to give it a shot.

I'm 99% certain that I'm going to be buying another old car in the
near future. It's a '64 Studebaker, which are notorious for front
fender rust-out. Now I would like to actually *drive* this car, and
while it does come with NOS fenders, I'm not sure that they would last
without some tlc. The problem is this, there's a vertical brace at
the back of the fender that bolts to the body, the "skin" of the
fender is crimped over this brace like a door skin, making a nice
inaccessable "pocket" for rust to form in. I posted a query about
this previously and someone suggested pouring in and sloshing around
foundation coating to seal that area, and the more I think about it I
like that idea. But I would like to have some kind of sealer on the
metal below that, I don't particularly trust the factory black
"primer" - I think it was probably just intended to keep the fender
from rusting while it was sitting on the shelf in dry storage, and
nothing more.

Here's what I'm thinking - chemically strip the whole fender,
including the "hidden" area with aircraft stripper, then etch the
whole thing with a muriatic acid solution or other acid, then finally
follow up with some DuPont or similar metal prep solution. Then paint
the whole fender with an etching primer and/or epoxy primer (is the
etching primer really a necessary step? or does anyone make an epoxy
etching primer?) Here's where the questions come in, are there any
primer/sealers that would be suitable for *pouring* into a hidden area
and sloshing around to provide a good coating? Obviously I care not a
bit about finish, this is an area that you can't even see unless you
stick your head under the wheel well, and even the bits that you *can*
see will probably be coated with undercoat after paint.

Anyone more familiar with paint products that can give me some advice?
If I were going to pour some primer/sealer in there, should I cut it
with thinner or just pour it in undiluted?

thanks,

nate

On 22 Oct 2004 07:57:14 -0700, (Nate Nagel) wrote:

If you want rust protection that really works:

www.por15.com

It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it.

"John Ings" > wrote in message
...
> On 22 Oct 2004 07:57:14 -0700, (Nate Nagel) wrote:
>
> If you want rust protection that really works:
>
> www.por15.com
>
> It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it.
>
>
>
.....and swear AT it when they get it on their hands (there's a reason why
they tell you to wear gloves when applying it)
I've used it - if you follow the directions to the letter it's excellent -
just make sure it's topcoated with their primer because very little paint
adheres to cured POR15 (think of it as how do they get the non-stick coating
to stick to the frying pan.....)
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1980 Audi 5k - POR black on various spots
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes - POR silver on the floor, POR in
the gas tank.....
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

John Ings wrote:
>
> On 22 Oct 2004 07:57:14 -0700, (Nate Nagel) wrote:
>
> If you want rust protection that really works:
>
> www.por15.com
>
> It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it.

I just saw EFR in JC Whitney that claims to be similar
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/C...searchbtn.y=19
.. Anyone have experience with this?

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:36:22 -0500, bob > wrote:

>> If you want rust protection that really works:
>>
>> www.por15.com
>>
>> It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it.
>
>I just saw EFR in JC Whitney that claims to be similar
>http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/C...searchbtn.y=19
>. Anyone have experience with this?

"Ultraviolet-sensitive" and "must be second-coated with any other
paint to protect finish from sunlight."

That sort of hints that it might be similar. POR-15 is distantly
related to crazy-glue. It's a hard plasic that is truly impervious to
penetration by water. You would think that paint is waterproof, but it
isn't completely so, and even 99% waterproof isn't good enough if
you're driving in brine slush.

The "must be coated" warning by-the-way, is only about appearance.
POR-15 left uncoated and exposed to UV becomes weathered looking and
greyish, but its integrity is not compromised.

Bonus: POR-15 and fibreglass cloth works as well or better than epoxy
and fibreglass cloth.

John Ings wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:36:22 -0500, bob > wrote:
>
>
>>>If you want rust protection that really works:
>>>
>>>www.por15.com
>>>
>>>It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it.
>>
>>I just saw EFR in JC Whitney that claims to be similar
>>http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/C...searchbtn.y=19
>>. Anyone have experience with this?
>
>
> "Ultraviolet-sensitive" and "must be second-coated with any other
> paint to protect finish from sunlight."
>
> That sort of hints that it might be similar. POR-15 is distantly
> related to crazy-glue. It's a hard plasic that is truly impervious to
> penetration by water. You would think that paint is waterproof, but it
> isn't completely so, and even 99% waterproof isn't good enough if
> you're driving in brine slush.
>
> The "must be coated" warning by-the-way, is only about appearance.
> POR-15 left uncoated and exposed to UV becomes weathered looking and
> greyish, but its integrity is not compromised.
>
> Bonus: POR-15 and fibreglass cloth works as well or better than epoxy
> and fibreglass cloth.
>

I'll second all those comments, I've done the 'glass trick too. I guess
I'm just a little concerned about adhesion to metal that I have no way
of roughing up, or really prepping any way other than chemically for
that matter.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:31:44 -0400, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

> I guess
>I'm just a little concerned about adhesion to metal that I have no way
>of roughing up, or really prepping any way other than chemically for
>that matter.

Then give it an etch with naval jelly or other phosphoric acid product
and then a good rinse. If you think there's already a light rust in
there, just POR-15 it. POR-15 likes rusted surfaces.

Just this past weekend, I saw a completely unrusted *1978 Plymouth
Caravelle "woodie" wagon*. That is a Canadian-market badge-up of the
F-body Plymouth Volare/Dodge Aspen. These cars, while they weren't *quite*
as bad as the Chevrolet Vega, were practically made out of compressed
rust. One seldom sees such a car as this in any condition here in Toronto,
which sees heavy road salt four to five months out of the year.

There was a "Rustproofed with Waxoyl" sticker in the lower left corner of
the windshield; the condition of the car is quite a high recommendation
for that product.

FWIW, of course.

Daniel J. Stern wrote:

> Just this past weekend, I saw a completely unrusted *1978 Plymouth
> Caravelle "woodie" wagon*. That is a Canadian-market badge-up of the
> F-body Plymouth Volare/Dodge Aspen. These cars, while they weren't *quite*
> as bad as the Chevrolet Vega, were practically made out of compressed
> rust. One seldom sees such a car as this in any condition here in Toronto,
> which sees heavy road salt four to five months out of the year.
>
> There was a "Rustproofed with Waxoyl" sticker in the lower left corner of
> the windshield; the condition of the car is quite a high recommendation
> for that product.
>
> FWIW, of course.

Yeesh. Yeah, I remember those things... when I was a *real* little kid,
I remember the neighbors across the street bought a Volare wagon. The
front fenders were literally rusted through in a year. One of the only
cars I've seen that seems to rust faster than an old Studebaker.

This Waxoyl stuff, is it a paraffin based coating like the Germans are
using now? I like that stuff.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Nate Nagel wrote:

> Yeesh. Yeah, I remember those things... when I was a *real* little kid,
> I remember the neighbors across the street bought a Volare wagon. The
> front fenders were literally rusted through in a year.

Only a year? They got one of the good ones...

(When it came time for my folks to trade in their bought-new '70 Dart,
they went back to the Dodge dealer, who redfacedly apologized during the
test drive as they rattled their way through a test drive of a new '78
Aspen. Window cranks fell off, shift levers flopped, the works. They
bought a new '78 Caprice.)

> This Waxoyl stuff, is it a paraffin based coating like the Germans are
> using now? I like that stuff.

It's been around for decades. www.waxoyl.com ; think the stuff is called
"Waxoyl Hardwax". Or do a Google search on it.