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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
This story was also broadcast on the KTLA Morning News. In the
televised story, they interviewed some guy who whined "I wish they'd do something about it" (referring to the traffic congestion on SoCal freeways). Well, "they" aren't gonna do JACK about it for at least 10 years, so if you want a solution you'll need to take matters into your own hands. MOVE from your isolated, accessible-only-by-automobile suburban sprawl home and find a place close to where you work or, if your office is near a station, move close to a public transit stop. Sitting there whining while you're stuck in gridlock isn't going to help you. http://ktla.trb.com/news/la-me-trans...ll=ktla-news-1 In north Orange County, Interstate 5 is a 10-lane superhighway, with the broad shoulders, terra-cotta sound walls and attractive landscaping one might expect along California's main north-south artery. Just short of Los Angeles County, however, the artery clogs. It narrows to six lanes, three each way, and sheds its modern features, becoming a 1950s-vintage roadway. Right about there, many northbound motorists get mad. "The commute out of Orange County is impossible," fumed Paul Samarin, a Newport Beach lawyer, while gassing up near his home in Norwalk. "It bottlenecks and it stops." Drivers pay the price in time and frustration. According to plans, commuters will have to wait until 2016 to see what is predicted to be a $1.4-billion expansion from the Orange County line through the L.A. County cities of La Mirada, Norwalk, Santa Fe Springs and part of Downey to the junction with the 605 Freeway. |
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
> According to plans, commuters will have to wait until 2016 to see
> what is predicted to be a $1.4-billion expansion from the Orange > County line through the L.A. County cities of La Mirada, Norwalk, > Santa Fe Springs and part of Downey to the junction with the 605 > Freeway. > And after several YEARS of construction to widen the road, they will realize that the newly-widened roadway is way too narrow. That happened with a roadway near where I used to live. It was two lanes each way, always jammed one way in the morning and the opposite way in the evening (two hours to go about 10 miles). They announced plans to widen it to THREE lanes each way. Took several years. When they were done, the road was three lanes jammed in the morning and the opposite three lanes jammed in the evening. The backup and commute time were identical to what it was before the road construction was even out of the planning stage. Adding one or two lanes does NOTHING to a road that is seriously congested, unless it was only one lane each way to begin with. This project planned for OC and LA counties in 2016 probably should have been completed *****no later than 1986****, and the next expansion should be to DOUBLE or TRIPLE that once again. But no . . . . the taxpayers will have billions wasted on yet another expansion project that is too little, too late. -Dave |
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
Scott en Aztlán wrote: <brevity snip>
> > In north Orange County, Interstate 5 is a 10-lane superhighway, with > the broad shoulders, terra-cotta sound walls and attractive > landscaping one might expect along California's main north-south > artery. ----- Every vehicle on I-5 has to be in one of two lanes heading into or out of the LA area and SoCalifornians have bitched about this fact since long before you were born. There's no reason to fix I-5 since any attempt will prove woefully inadequate and a waste of money. CA planners always design major highways to accomodate the traffic of "today, if not "yesterday". If any thought is given to "tomorrow" it is a perpetual assumption that the traffic density will probably decrease since that's what it's never done. Inadequate highways = construction savings + longer commutes = more fuel taxes paid. When Californians become smart enough to not elect morons and movie stars as governor, perhaps you'll see a change. From wherever you think you're going to end up when you die... ----- - gpsman |
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
In article ews.net>, Mike T. wrote:
> was even out of the planning stage. Adding one or two lanes does NOTHING to > a road that is seriously congested, unless it was only one lane each way to > begin with. I've argued the same thing here many times. I am consistantly told I am wrong. The problem is that on a road that has so many users on it is that there is always another lane blocking sloth to screw up the additional lane(s). So many that they can easily establish blocking. The lane growth has to out pace the traffic by a very significant margin. This is why driver behavior is so important to capacity. I came to this conclusion when I experienced traffic that would have crippled a flat straight chicago 4 lane arterial with such frequent traffic lights flow smoothly on a 4 lane road in Germany laid out along a winding path probably laid out in 16whatever. |
#5
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
Brent P, > was motivated to say this
in rec.autos.driving on Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:07:04 -0600: > I've argued the same thing here many times. I am consistantly told I am > wrong. The problem is that on a road that has so many users on it is that > there is always another lane blocking sloth to screw up the additional > lane(s). So many that they can easily establish blocking. The lane > growth has to out pace the traffic by a very significant margin. For which you can thank people like "Laura Bush murdered her boyfriend," and the reso of its naderite ilk. > This is why driver behavior is so important to capacity. I came to this > conclusion when I experienced traffic that would have crippled a flat > straight chicago 4 lane arterial with such frequent traffic lights flow > smoothly on a 4 lane road in Germany laid out along a winding path > probably laid out in 16whatever. Well, if the cops here would concentrate less on a number on a sign and more on truly dangerious drivers - like the afore mentioned killer - we could also have roads like you described in the paragraph above... |
#6
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
"Brent P" > wrote in message
. .. > In article ews.net>, Mike T. wrote: > > was even out of the planning stage. Adding one or two lanes does NOTHING to > > a road that is seriously congested, unless it was only one lane each way to > > begin with. > > > I've argued the same thing here many times. I am consistantly told I am > wrong. The problem is that on a road that has so many users on it is that > there is always another lane blocking sloth to screw up the additional > lane(s). So many that they can easily establish blocking. The lane > growth has to out pace the traffic by a very significant margin. > > This is why driver behavior is so important to capacity. I came to this > conclusion when I experienced traffic that would have crippled a flat > straight chicago 4 lane arterial with such frequent traffic lights flow > smoothly on a 4 lane road in Germany laid out along a winding path > probably laid out in 16whatever. > > Driver behavior isn't always acceleration. Driver behavior isn't always high speed. Driver behavior IS, however, at least using a large enough following distance so that others can merge or change lanes. In fact, just focusing on Norwalk, that traffic jams up frequently on the I-5, because of two major factors: 1) Drivers trying to merge onto the freeway, being blocked out by thru traffic that won't create sufficient gaps. As the right lane force-ends, thru traffic and merging traffic jam with merging traffic trying to force its way into narrow gaps while thru traffic still refuses to open up larger gaps. This jams the right lane. 2) Drivers trying to merge into the right lane from the left lanes, to access the I-605 junction, while again, thru traffic refuses to open up suitable gaps to allow these lane changes. As lane changing traffic starts to slow as they approach the junction so they can try to force the lane change, this also slows at least the middle lane. The partial solution, of course, is to engineer every merge as a protected merge/exit only lane, so that merging traffic can at least go from onramp to onramp if thru traffic won't let them in. The other solution, regulating following distances so that traffic can lane change, is something the drivers must (unfortunately) do on their own, until close proximity forced throttle cutoff/forced engine braking is incorporated into newer vehicles as an sensor/ECU function. And yes, there are occasions where--even though certain group members may disagree--it is completely necessary to let someone into a lane. When that breaks down, using technology to govern that behavior does become a viable secondary solution. |
#7
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
> For which you can thank people like "Laura Bush murdered her
> boyfriend," and the reso of its naderite ilk. Are you really that naive? Judy is nothing more than a weak troll - not even disgused well at that - and you and the rest of her long term post humpers seem to think she's for real. It's funny to read responses from those in their first week of usenet, after that it's just sad. |
#8
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 11:06:30 -0500, "Mike T." > wrote:
>> According to plans, commuters will have to wait until 2016 to see >> what is predicted to be a $1.4-billion expansion from the Orange >> County line through the L.A. County cities of La Mirada, Norwalk, >> Santa Fe Springs and part of Downey to the junction with the 605 >> Freeway. >> > >And after several YEARS of construction to widen the road, they will realize >that the newly-widened roadway is way too narrow. -Dave > Widening roads sucks. The real solution is to build whole _other_ roads. They might be parallel, 300 yards over one way or the other, but just widening the road is of really limited value. One jacknifed truck, or one life-flight helicopter, and the whole thing is hosed even if it has 27 lanes in each direction. The cops generally close 'em all, no matter how wide it is. We need _more_ roads, not wider roads. Dave Head |
#9
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
In article >, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> Driver behavior isn't always acceleration. Driver behavior isn't always high > speed. Driver behavior IS, however, at least using a large enough following > distance so that others can merge or change lanes. And driver behavior isn't always dumping the bodies of dead hookers on the side of the interstate. The merging and lane changing problems go away when sloth and MFFY are eliminated. What is the major reason for making it difficult for someone to get in front of you? 1) That driver is sloth and will drive 5,10,15,20mph or more under the flow speed or your present speed. We can thank absurdly low speed limits in great part for this. 2) That driver has been passing on the shoulder or conducting any number of other assholish behaviors. 3) the driver is just plain incompetent, using a cell phone, watching TV, reading a book, whatever. When people are almost entirely competent drivers the need to block out vanishes. There's nobody racing up on the shoulder, there isn't someone reading a book not paying attention to the road and most of all there isn't someone trying to merge into 70mph traffic at 40mph. > And yes, there are occasions where--even though certain group members may > disagree--it is completely necessary to let someone into a lane. When that > breaks down, using technology to govern that behavior does become a viable > secondary solution. Competent drivers don't require anyone to 'let' them in under normal flowing circumstances. Even in bumper to bumper traffic needing someone to 'let' me in is very rare. I learned early on that driving in such a way that it is dependent on the kindness of others is foolish at best. |
#10
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LA County: You're Stuck in a Traffic Jam Until AT LEAST 2016
In article >, Dave Head wrote:
>>And after several YEARS of construction to widen the road, they will realize >>that the newly-widened roadway is way too narrow. -Dave > Widening roads sucks. The real solution is to build whole _other_ roads. They > might be parallel, 300 yards over one way or the other, but just widening the > road is of really limited value. One jacknifed truck, or one life-flight > helicopter, and the whole thing is hosed even if it has 27 lanes in each > direction. The cops generally close 'em all, no matter how wide it is. > > We need _more_ roads, not wider roads. Actually the grid system is needed. Grid systems are far less prone to total failure because they have redundancy. However, far too many areas were developed with no thought put to the road system, and no grid to absorb a single closure. |
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