good car for the snow?

My wife and I just moved to NH from FL and its going to be our first winter
here. We have a front wheel drive focus for me and we need to start shopping
for a car for my wife.

As she hasn't driven in a new england winter yet, she wants something that
will be as easy as possible to drive in the snow and ice on her 20 mile
round trip commute. We live on a busy county road with regular plowing but
want something that can handle as well as possible in any eventuality. Not
necesarrily deep snow but icy conditions get me the most worried...

only catch is our budget only stretches to about 4500 bucks max. should we
get a light truck (with 4wd option? does that help on slippery roads?) or
should we look at getting something like a 10 year old audi with allwheel
drive? Are snow tires worth it or will all season do?

any hardend winter drivers out there want to give some advice?

eddieB wrote:

> My wife and I just moved to NH from FL and its going to be our first
> winter here. We have a front wheel drive focus for me and we need to
> start shopping for a car for my wife.
>
> As she hasn't driven in a new england winter yet, she wants something
> that will be as easy as possible to drive in the snow and ice on her
> 20 mile round trip commute. We live on a busy county road with
> regular plowing but want something that can handle as well as
> possible in any eventuality. Not necesarrily deep snow but icy
> conditions get me the most worried...
>
> only catch is our budget only stretches to about 4500 bucks max.
> should we get a light truck (with 4wd option? does that help on
> slippery roads?) or should we look at getting something like a 10
> year old audi with allwheel drive? Are snow tires worth it or will
> all season do?
>
> any hardend winter drivers out there want to give some advice?



Any small front-wheel-drive vehicle will do you fine.

And yes, snows are an excellent idea in the pursuit of forward motion
in bad snow. All seasons will do, but are not as good as pure snows.

You do not have to spend lots of money on snow tires; whatever fits
your budget is fine. Costco, Sears, all OK. And the narrower the better.

More important than anything else is to learn how to drive properly on
icy and snowy roads. No sort of vehicle or piece of hardware is any
kind of substitute for experience, caution and alertness in snow and
ice. Ice is everywhere, and is not always visible. A split second of
incaution, one MPH too fast, and you will spin out into opposing
traffic, or drive into the ditch.

Take your wife to an empty snow-covered parking lot. Skid and spin the
car a few times to put the fear of God into her.

> Take your wife to an empty snow-covered parking lot.

So far, so good...


> Skid and spin the car a few times to put the fear of God
> into her.

You misspelled "teach her to feel the onset of loss of traction... and
what to do about it once it develops."

Smart people can learn prudence and respect for danger while learning
how to manage it; this serves them much better than simple fear. She
probably already knows that you can wipe out on an icy road; the point
is how to avoid that sort of thing, and what to do if it occurs, not to
drive around half terrified from the anticipation and then just panic
when it happens.


As for the car, expense is much less important than reliability (and in
fact many people keep a wrinkled but trustworthy "winter beater" for
just such conditions). Front wheel drive is probably better for a
beginner. Carlike AWD is even better (and good for "mud time" too) but
whether a good one can fit under your price cap is problematic.

Spend the money to get real snow tires. And on assembling a self-help
kit for both car and person that can go in the trunk. Ditto for your
car, in both cases.

What might you carry? Here are some ideas...

Tire chains and maybe a bag of "playground sand" from the home
improvement barn and maybe some of those cute collapsible wire or
perforated-steel things you can lay out to get you out of an icy patch.
Practice with the tire chains in the comfort of your own driveway so
you don't have to ascend the learning curve at the side of the road
with your teeth chattering like you've already got the tire chains on
and are driving.

A shovel. A collapsible camping spade is better than nothing, and some
of them have a serrated edge for cutting
too. A short-handled spade is a very handy thing if you ha
room.

A few old scrap boards can give you a jack base in goopy stuff as well
as something for traction.

Plastic garbage bags have many uses and of course you don't leave home
without duct tape anyway.


Nothing starts a campfire quite like a road flare, and they help flag
down attention too, in addition to their orthodox
use of keeping other drivers from sticking their hood
ornament up the trailer hitch of a disabled vehicle.

Warm clothing that isn't quite presentable in public anymore can be
kept in the trunk. A couple of cheap ol' yeller or orange rain
ponchos from the dollar store are great to have too. And so is a ski
mask or at least a cap since you lose a lot of heat through your head.
Maybe some inexpensive rubber overshoes big enough to go on easily.

Several of those athletic energy bars and some bottles of
yuppie water can be a big help, and not just in winter.

Some well chosen simple tools are really nice to have around. One of
the less pleasant but more rewarding
midnights of my life was samaritanizing somebody at Donner Pass whose
chains had come off and ensnared the moving parts of his rent-a-car's
left front wheel...in a blizzard
just ahead of a road closure. My big "welding screwdriver"
and the old worn-out vise-grips that had been dismissed from my regular
tool collection got 'em off, eventually.


A first-aid kit is a must for any car, IMHO, just like a fire
extinguisher and that second flashlight and the jumper cables and the
recovery strap or tow chain. Good stuff for
helping others or for enabling the willing but underequipped to help
you.

Watch the locals... they know what to do (which includes knowing when
to stand pat on what they've got rather than venturing onto the
roads!).

And last but hardly least, some knowledge:

http://www.mdt.mt.gov/publications/d...r_survival.pdf
http://doe.sd.gov/octa/ddn4learning/...val/winter.htm
http://www.eduref.org/Virtual/Lesson...y/SFY0011.html

Hoping you both drive safely and manage to enjoy the winter (even in a
part of the country when it sticks around long after having made its
point),
--Joe

Ad absurdum per aspera wrote:

> > Take your wife to an empty snow-covered parking lot.
>
> So far, so good...
>
>
> > Skid and spin the car a few times to put the fear of God
> > into her.
>
> You misspelled "teach her to feel the onset of loss of traction... and
> what to do about it once it develops."



Not a misspelling, but an incompletely developed idea. You are
explicating what I meant to imply. Thanks for doing it for me.

I would recommend you get a set of winter tires for whatever you buy.

Frontwheel drive is probably best, BUT remember that Volvo's of
rear wheel drive configuration were designed by Swedes to drive in
the snow and ice. They were quite good. SAAB's were FWD, but
also good icers.

You might be able to get a good older Swedish car for the price
level you are talking about.

But any good reliable FWD car should do fine.

I have never driven an automatic under severe ice conditions, but
I guess they would probably be easier for your wife to deal
with.

We live in Canada and love our Jeeps.

My wife normally drives our Cherokee. It is nice sized, gets about 24+
highway mpg or 18-20 combined with short trips and has a sweet shift on
the fly 4x4. That means if you see a now or ice patch coming, you can
just shift gears and keep on going, no need to stop. Then when you see
clear roads coming again, you just shift back to 2 wheel drive.

The Cherokee 4.0 engine is a solid design that typically lasts close to
300K miles. Our 88 has 310K km on it and is still going strong.

They are easy to get parts for and easy to maintain.

You should be able to find a mid 90's one in your price range.

No matter 'what' you buy, real snow or ice tires are worth their weight
in gold for safety and handling. 'All season' are a compromise tire. I
recommend a second set of cheap rims with the winter tires already on
them so you can easily swap.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

eddieB wrote:
>
> My wife and I just moved to NH from FL and its going to be our first winter
> here. We have a front wheel drive focus for me and we need to start shopping
> for a car for my wife.
>
> As she hasn't driven in a new england winter yet, she wants something that
> will be as easy as possible to drive in the snow and ice on her 20 mile
> round trip commute. We live on a busy county road with regular plowing but
> want something that can handle as well as possible in any eventuality. Not
> necesarrily deep snow but icy conditions get me the most worried...
>
> only catch is our budget only stretches to about 4500 bucks max. should we
> get a light truck (with 4wd option? does that help on slippery roads?) or
> should we look at getting something like a 10 year old audi with allwheel
> drive? Are snow tires worth it or will all season do?
>
> any hardend winter drivers out there want to give some advice?

wrote:
> I would recommend you get a set of winter tires for whatever you buy.
>
> Frontwheel drive is probably best, BUT remember that Volvo's of
> rear wheel drive configuration were designed by Swedes to drive in
> the snow and ice. They were quite good. SAAB's were FWD, but
> also good icers.
>
> You might be able to get a good older Swedish car for the price
> level you are talking about.
>
> But any good reliable FWD car should do fine.
>
> I have never driven an automatic under severe ice conditions, but
> I guess they would probably be easier for your wife to deal
> with.

I'd also recommend a Volkswagen or Subaru. Subarus especially seem to
be popular with some of my northern-dwelling friends.

nate

front wheel drive cars have all that engine weight over the drive wheels
which provides traction in snow. when they first came out the difference
in sterring was quite noticable over rear wheel drive cars. we used to put
bags of sand in the back of rear wheel drive cars in winter for better
tranction. rear wheel drive pickup trucks were especaily bad in winter.
concrete blocks or sand bags in the bed over the axels helped. of course,
addign weight reduced gas milage.

if you are going to get snow tires you might also buy some old wheels
(rims) from a wrecker to put them on so you do not have to pay to have the
tires swapped on and off the summer wheels twice a year. snow tires are
made of soft rubber and wear faster on dry pavement. you can leave them on
all year if you don't mind the wear and noise.

go easy on the gas in snow. accellerate and decellerate gradually. I drive
most of the winter without using the brakes. slow down on curves to avoid
sliding sideways off the road. I've done that a couple of times, ending up
in the snowbank left by the snow plough.

Playing around in a school parking lot some weekend before they plough it
out is a good idea, to get used to the feel.

I carry an old coat in the car in winter in case I have to get dirty.
What to wear in winter is another topic.

Roger Blake ) writes:
> In article >, eddieB wrote:
>> any hardend winter drivers out there want to give some advice?
>
> VWs have always been great in the snow, and you don't have
> to worry about antifreeze with them.

Can you get air cooled VW's?
Reliability is issue with VW's, especially the vans.
Lemon Aid says to avoid VW vans.

Long years ago, when he was still thought of more as an automotive
writer, P.J. O'Rourke wrote a column praising the Subaru for both
winter and the ensuing mud in rural New England. Subarus have gotten
both more capable and nicer since then. More expensive too, alas.

They're not trucks, and a driver suffering from Baja 1000 delusions can
certainly break them (well, much the same could be said for most trucks
and SUVs in stock form...) but they're thoughtfully designed and
robustly built in ways that make them well adapted to churn through
sloppy conditions with aplomb. If the original poster can get a
*good* example under his price cap, it's well worth considering.

Cheers,
--Joe