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Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 27th 10, 08:40 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Andrew MacPherson[_2_]
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Posts: 287
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am tempted by the
idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many others).
So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing mixture of
"it suxs" and "it feels great!"

There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB with a G25
quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as there's
no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into me.

Feel free to slap away. :-)

Andrew McP
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  #2  
Old November 28th 10, 01:56 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
GaryR
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Posts: 90
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

Andrew - considering that iRacing is $99 per year and usually comes
with a bunch of iRacing dollars to buy extra cars or tracks (it's a
$30 credit right now) and a PS3 and an game is close to $300... you
make me wonder what you smoke....

:-)
GR

>On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 07:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time), (Andrew MacPherson) wrote:
>iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am tempted by the
>idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many others).
>So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing mixture of
>"it suxs" and "it feels great!"
>
>There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB with a G25
>quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as there's
>no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into me.
>
>Feel free to slap away. :-)
>
>Andrew McP


  #3  
Old November 28th 10, 07:03 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Tim O[_3_]
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Posts: 6
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 07:40 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

>iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am tempted by the
>idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many others).
>So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing mixture of
>"it suxs" and "it feels great!"
>
>There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB with a G25
>quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as there's
>no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into me.
>
>Feel free to slap away. :-)
>
>Andrew McP


The people saying its great are speaking from lack of experience.
There simply are no simulators for consoles, so GT5 for the PS3 and
Forza for the XBox appear great by default. If your typical driving
experience was Need For Speed Hot Pursuit and Burnout Paradise, you'd
think GT5 was a realistic simulator, too.

I'll be honest and admit that I haven't played the current version,
but I do have a PS3 and spent a few hours careening off walls and
other cars to victory in GT5 Prolouge.

I'm also going to wind up with it because I named it as Christmas
present idea to my wife when I was drawing a blank, but I'm sure even
with the improvements since Prologue its going to feel like a totally
generic/sanitized experience after rFactor and Live For Speed.

If you can enjoy the PS3 for other games and the Blu Ray player, its
not a horrible thing, but if you're going to spend all that for what
you think is a great simulator I expect you're going to be pretty
disappointed.
  #4  
Old November 29th 10, 06:57 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Andrew MacPherson[_2_]
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Posts: 287
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

(Tim O) wrote:

> The people saying its great are speaking from lack of experience.


There are some folk on iRacing saying it's pretty satisfying.. others saying it's
cr*p. That's a bit puzzling. But then this genre, where so much is down to a
cocktail of personal preference and hardware, has always been a bit like that. One
man's meat is another man's murder.

One thing which particularly intrigues me though are the (iRacing based) comments
about the AI. Some are saying it's terrible, many that it's on a par with most
other sim AI... ie not perfect, but acceptable.

That leads me to think about why the quality of the driving on iRacing can be so
variable. Perhaps those with a sim background are used to taking evasive action to
avoid weak AI, and therefore better able to deal with the problems caused by
erratic real drivers? And there are certainly plenty of those on iRacing, as well
as plenty of decent drivers.

Maybe that's why I've always found it easy to keep my SR up, because I am *always*
expecting the guy in front to do something stupid. :-)

> but if you're going to spend all that for what you think is a
> great simulator I expect you're going to be pretty disappointed.


Well, I've spent roughly $750 at iRacing and ended up, overall, pretty disappointed.
Every time something great comes along (like the MX-5) it's counterbalanced by an
annoyance (like the MX-5 only racing at Lime Rock or Laguna). So if I end up
spending another $400 (allowing for the exchange rate) on a PS3+GT5 at least I'll
be able to sell the PS3 afterwards for at least 50%.

There's no second-hand market on iRacing... though I've always felt that this would
be a great way of spreading out the participation on the service. Unpopular cars
would become cheap, and cheap cars would get bought simply because they're cheap,
and therefore participation in those series goes up. :-)

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on GT5. As ever, being patient will probably pay
dividends. There are plenty of planned updated for GT%, from what I read, and I
have until the end of January to line up things to fill the gap in my schedule left
by iRacing. By then there may be some kind of rF2 release, which ought to keep us
all busy (if only arguing ;-) for a while. I remain sceptical about that though. It
doesn't "feel" like it's ready to me.

Andrew McP
  #5  
Old November 29th 10, 02:53 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Tim O[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 05:57 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
(Andrew MacPherson) wrote:

(Tim O) wrote:
>
>> The people saying its great are speaking from lack of experience.

>
>There are some folk on iRacing saying it's pretty satisfying.. others saying it's
>cr*p. That's a bit puzzling. But then this genre, where so much is down to a
>cocktail of personal preference and hardware, has always been a bit like that. One
>man's meat is another man's murder.
>
>One thing which particularly intrigues me though are the (iRacing based) comments
>about the AI. Some are saying it's terrible, many that it's on a par with most
>other sim AI... ie not perfect, but acceptable.
>
>That leads me to think about why the quality of the driving on iRacing can be so
>variable. Perhaps those with a sim background are used to taking evasive action to
>avoid weak AI, and therefore better able to deal with the problems caused by
>erratic real drivers? And there are certainly plenty of those on iRacing, as well
>as plenty of decent drivers.
>
>Maybe that's why I've always found it easy to keep my SR up, because I am *always*
>expecting the guy in front to do something stupid. :-)
>
>> but if you're going to spend all that for what you think is a
>> great simulator I expect you're going to be pretty disappointed.

>
>Well, I've spent roughly $750 at iRacing and ended up, overall, pretty disappointed.
>Every time something great comes along (like the MX-5) it's counterbalanced by an
>annoyance (like the MX-5 only racing at Lime Rock or Laguna). So if I end up
>spending another $400 (allowing for the exchange rate) on a PS3+GT5 at least I'll
>be able to sell the PS3 afterwards for at least 50%.
>
>There's no second-hand market on iRacing... though I've always felt that this would
>be a great way of spreading out the participation on the service. Unpopular cars
>would become cheap, and cheap cars would get bought simply because they're cheap,
>and therefore participation in those series goes up. :-)
>
>Anyway, thanks for your thoughts on GT5. As ever, being patient will probably pay
>dividends. There are plenty of planned updated for GT%, from what I read, and I
>have until the end of January to line up things to fill the gap in my schedule left
>by iRacing. By then there may be some kind of rF2 release, which ought to keep us
>all busy (if only arguing ;-) for a while. I remain sceptical about that though. It
>doesn't "feel" like it's ready to me.
>
>Andrew McP


Regarding the AI... There is good there, they run the proper racing
line and also get involved in accidents all by themselves.

Here is the bad thing about the AI: They run the proper racing line.
Wait, thats the same as the good right?

Well, yes and no. The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and
generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy
the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different
speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about
that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of
realism and exposing its mannequins face.

Once you start getting skeptical, it snowballs. You will then find
that many of the Challenges involve not hitting things.

This seems like good common sense, but its really only done to cover
for two weaknesses... The totally lacking damage model and the fact
that without the "no touch" limitation its very easy to careen and
bash your way to victory.

The true GT5 apologists always react the same when you present them
with these hard truths... "You're not supposed to drive that way".

Well yea, but its a blinders mentality to me. As someone who has
played sims since Indy 500: The Simulation by Papyrus, if I DO drive
that way, I want my car to be a steaming, immovable hunk by the side
of the road.

Here is an example of where it falls apart during a race... I make a
clean but tight pass on the AI in a Challenge. Since the AI is mostly
oblivious to me, it simply rams me. My pass was clean, and this
brake-check in many sims would either result in the AI braking, or
hitting you but the race continuing if the damage was light and you
didn't get spun.

In GT5, thats a disqualification. You didn't even hit the AI, it hit
you. YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DRIVE THAT WAY!

Actually, now I'm hoping you buy it, because I'd love to read your
thoughts on it.

  #6  
Old November 30th 10, 03:32 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Peter[_1_]
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Posts: 33
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

In article >,
says...
>
> Regarding the AI... There is good there, they run the proper racing
> line and also get involved in accidents all by themselves.
>
> Here is the bad thing about the AI: They run the proper racing line.
> Wait, thats the same as the good right?
>
> Well, yes and no. The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and
> generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy
> the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different
> speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about
> that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of
> realism and exposing its mannequins face.
>
> Once you start getting skeptical, it snowballs. You will then find
> that many of the Challenges involve not hitting things.
>
> This seems like good common sense, but its really only done to cover
> for two weaknesses... The totally lacking damage model and the fact
> that without the "no touch" limitation its very easy to careen and
> bash your way to victory.
>


I read elsewhere that there is a 'realistic' damage model, but you have
to progress to about level 40 before it is implemented.

--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email
  #7  
Old November 30th 10, 06:35 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Tim O[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

On Tue, 30 Nov 2010 14:32:23 -0000, Peter
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> Regarding the AI... There is good there, they run the proper racing
>> line and also get involved in accidents all by themselves.
>>
>> Here is the bad thing about the AI: They run the proper racing line.
>> Wait, thats the same as the good right?
>>
>> Well, yes and no. The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and
>> generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy
>> the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different
>> speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about
>> that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of
>> realism and exposing its mannequins face.
>>
>> Once you start getting skeptical, it snowballs. You will then find
>> that many of the Challenges involve not hitting things.
>>
>> This seems like good common sense, but its really only done to cover
>> for two weaknesses... The totally lacking damage model and the fact
>> that without the "no touch" limitation its very easy to careen and
>> bash your way to victory.
>>

>
>I read elsewhere that there is a 'realistic' damage model, but you have
>to progress to about level 40 before it is implemented.


Thats frigging horrible if its true. Unlockables is something I didn't
even get into and its another pain in the ass with the first version
of the game (Prologue). I was running races I had already completed
repeatedly to amass cash and buy cars for other challenges.

That is actually one of the things that led to me burning out on the
game. Initially, you acquire stuff pretty fast, but it tapers off and
you have to grind and grind at stuff you've already done to buy the
expensive cars for other events. Again, thats a completely console-y,
non simulation type thing.

  #8  
Old December 1st 10, 12:54 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mr T
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

On Nov 29, 11:53*pm, Tim O > wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 05:57 +0000 (GMT Standard Time),
>
>The AI is so structured that it feels lifeless and
>generic. Most of the accidents occur when faster cars try to occupy
>the same line. They're running the exact same lines at different
>speeds and don't really seem to "see" each other. When you think about
>that robotic behavior it all starts making sense, lifting the veil of
>realism and exposing its mannequins face.


I recall someone saying about Toca3 that the AI were too aggressive.
It was really just that they would only follow the racing line and
wouldn't alter speed or change their line to get around other cars
(like you say about GT5). To me this is just lazy programming and as
you say makes you feel like you're racing against robots. AI should be
INTELLIGENT. It might take a lot of time and work to make them seem
human but it makes racing against them so much more enjoyable.

Regards,
Mike.
  #9  
Old December 2nd 10, 10:18 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
petergagg
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Posts: 5
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?

On 27/11/2010 07:40, Andrew MacPherson wrote:
> iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am tempted by the
> idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many others).
> So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing mixture of
> "it suxs" and "it feels great!"
>
> There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB with a G25
> quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But as there's
> no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping into me.
>
> Feel free to slap away. :-)
>
> Andrew McP

As a long time "proper" sim fan (mostly pc racing sims) I am very much
enjoying GT5 on the PS3.

You have to take it for what it is, eg: a console based racing game, and
once accepted, simply enjoy what it does.

Graphics are great, the premier car models are simply stunning, watching
replays is quite literally like watching a replay of a real race. Photo
realistic (almost) lighting, shadows, details, etc. (10 out of 10)

Audio is also good with each car being sampled and surround sound gives
good effects.(8/10)

Car handling is perfectly fine considering this is a console game, cars
rise and fall with acceleration, braking, etc, cars can be slid (power
slides or pendulum turns when rallying, etc) car physics seem perfectly
acceptable to me. Different models have different handling to suit.
Rumbles through the controller help with feedback, but a controller is
not as realistic as a wheel. (8/10)

NB: I am using the standard PS3 controller with GT5, if racing on my pc
I would of course be using a wheel and pedals, so that takes something
away from the experience for me, and no matter how hard I try, my
partner simply will not allow me to have a cockpit setup in the main
lliving room, so it has to stay in the study with the pc! Maybe I'll
move the PS3 into the study at some point.... BTW I've read on-line that
using a wheel and pedals with GT5 is pretty good.

Damage modelling is ok, but is only used on the premium model cars.
Doesn't seem to affect the cars handling too much? (6/10)

AI are ok, no worse or better than any other racing game / sim I have
tried (eg; most of them). They do tend to stick to the racing line, they
can crash into you, they sometimes have crashes amongst them selves.
They sometimes do stupid things. But hey, thats racing and its also what
humans do....(7/10)

Car variety is good. The loudly proclaim over 1000 cars, but remember
that often (eg: Nissan Skyline, etc) can have upwards of 20 different
models for the same car, so in reality I estimate there are probably
around a few hundred (which is still very good).Car handling varies with
each car and there are a huge variety to choose from and once bought (or
won) they can be tuned with parts, which do affect the handling, you can
start out with a fairly basic car, and once you have spent some more (in
game cash) and tuned the car to its max, you can end up with a race
winning beast. (9/10)

Tracks are good and there is a wide variety (Road, Tracks, Rally,
Hillclimbs, etc). Oh, and it has the Ring. Track detail is good, with a
godo feeling of the terrain, land rises and falls, off camber bends,
etc. Oh, and it has the Ring. Track surfaces also affect handling (which
is good) Try using a powerful rear wheel car on a dirt track, gravel or
snow and you will slide a lot, which is as it should be. Oh, and it has
the Ring. There are old Playstation favourite tracks, and some new ones
too. Did I mention the Nurburgring? Its awesome....(9/10)

Licenses are still here, which are a good way to learn the different
techniques, cars handling and tracks. Great for noobs, but also
challenging for hardcore racers. (8/10)

Races are also good with a nice variety, rallying, time trials, hill
climbs, road and track races, some short, some long (24 hour anyone?) As
I mentioned in the AI section, they can make the racing interesting, but
IMHO are no worse than a lot of other games / sims. (8/10)

Multiplay includes on-line racing (pretty good so far, have only tried
it a few times and it was fun) and there is also split screen option. (8/10)

Overall I like it. I already had PS3 and I'm not sure I would buy one
just to play GT5. But if you already have PS3 gt5 is a must have, it is
the definitive Playstation game. If you are thinking of getting an Xbox
360 or a PS3, I'd go for the PS3, it has the built in Blu Ray player
(great) and on-line play is free, plus I think there are more games to
choose from on the PS3 (not sure though?).

In closing, as a PS3 game I'd give GT5 around a 9/10). But as a
simulator I'd give it less (around 8 or possibly 8.5/10)

I know purist sim racers will probably disagree with my views, buts that
what they are, my views only. I love proper racing sims, but I'm quite
happy to have a blast on a console game too. Each to their own....

8-)

Peter G (PJGTECH)
  #10  
Old December 2nd 10, 04:31 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
PlowBoy[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 27
Default Anyone got any thoughts on PS3/GT5?


"petergagg" > wrote in message
...
> On 27/11/2010 07:40, Andrew MacPherson wrote:
>> iRacing has messed with my definition of "far too expensive" so I am
>> tempted by the
>> idea of buying a PS3 just for GT5 and another Ring experience (among many
>> others).
>> So far I've seen quite a lot of comments but there's a really confusing
>> mixture of
>> "it suxs" and "it feels great!"
>>
>> There do seem to be some people finding the driving experience and FFB
>> with a G25
>> quite satisfying (in some of the cars anyway), which is intriguing. But
>> as there's
>> no other reason for me to buy a PS3 I really need some sense slapping
>> into me.
>>
>> Feel free to slap away. :-)
>>
>> Andrew McP

> As a long time "proper" sim fan (mostly pc racing sims) I am very much
> enjoying GT5 on the PS3.
>
> You have to take it for what it is, eg: a console based racing game, and
> once accepted, simply enjoy what it does.
>
> Graphics are great, the premier car models are simply stunning, watching
> replays is quite literally like watching a replay of a real race. Photo
> realistic (almost) lighting, shadows, details, etc. (10 out of 10)
>
> Audio is also good with each car being sampled and surround sound gives
> good effects.(8/10)
>
> Car handling is perfectly fine considering this is a console game, cars
> rise and fall with acceleration, braking, etc, cars can be slid (power
> slides or pendulum turns when rallying, etc) car physics seem perfectly
> acceptable to me. Different models have different handling to suit.
> Rumbles through the controller help with feedback, but a controller is not
> as realistic as a wheel. (8/10)
>
> NB: I am using the standard PS3 controller with GT5, if racing on my pc I
> would of course be using a wheel and pedals, so that takes something away
> from the experience for me, and no matter how hard I try, my partner
> simply will not allow me to have a cockpit setup in the main lliving room,
> so it has to stay in the study with the pc! Maybe I'll move the PS3 into
> the study at some point.... BTW I've read on-line that using a wheel and
> pedals with GT5 is pretty good.


About the cockpit in living room... Wonder what would happen if you tried
replacing your existing coffe table with this? Maybe she wont notice (lol).
Yeah, I think the price is rediculous, but I could build same out of plain
old plywood I think.

("gentlemen! start your coffee tables!") http://www.converttable.eu/



<snip>


 




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