Sermons

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:07:03 +0100, DogDiesel > wrote:

>
> "DogDiesel" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "DogDiesel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "DogDiesel" wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You offered to contact her. i didnt ask you.
>>>>
>>>> no sir, I did NOT.... you even quoted my reply, but somehow got the
>>>> above from it? very odd, indeed...here it is, again, in it's entirety:
>>>> "not that I'm aware of... but the point Chris was making is that the
>>>> material is copywrited, and you are asking someone to unlawfully copy
>>>> that material for profit...."
>>>>
>>>> I don't see an offer from me of any type there...
>>>>
>>>>>> if you
>>>>>> really want the information, it is out there, in print....
>>>>
>>>>> No its not. Its been removed.
>>>>
>>>> no, it's out there...
>>>>
>>>>> Its been removed.
>>>>
>>>>> From everywhere. Even archives.
>>>>
>>>> odd, since I can find Bob's sermons and all his contributions to this
>>>> group(and there are many) with a simple search... as I said, you don't
>>>> *want* to find it...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Heres the quote.
>>>
>>> I would at least look for ways to send contributions to his widow for
>>> every copy made and shared. I suppose she could decline and allow us to
>>> distribute Bob's work free if she so chooses.
>>> I have tried to contact her through the Blog on another matter, but
>>> received no reply.
>>>
>>>
>>> I apologize for the misunderstanding. "I would at least look for ways"
>>> was interpreted wrong.
>>> I didn't mean to offend anyone.
>>>
>>> I thought Bob wanted people to share who aren't selling his posts. I'm
>>> not doing this for profit. Means don't make any cash from it. I wanted
>>> to
>>> make a manual to put in my garage.
>>>
>>> And further research I came upon many post about the removal of the
>>> sermons . I don't care to get involved.
>>> I see now he just decided he didn't want anyone to have any of it.
>>>
>>> End of that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I never heard of the guy until about 2 months ago.
>>>
>>> Although I met the "other" pilot Bob Hoover before the Feds tried to
>>> steal his license away. Thinking he was going to have a heart attack.
>>> When he was doing "both engine off" barrel rolls at airshows in a
>>> shrike
>>> commander. With the gear down.
>>>
>>> Furthermore I found some of his material last night and this morning. I
>>> found Grendels saga last night and wished I found it this morning.
>>> Because I was up for 4 hours . I rode a 82 Goldwing to Alaska ,And I
>>> had
>>> no issues. And it was nowhere near as bad as this.
>>>
>>> I found the Christmas story. And a bunch of his posts.
>>>
>>> Somebody pointed me to the Tulz last month. But I found a 9and a half
>>> Tulz I think. Just now.
>>>
>>>
>>> I found a reference to an driving to Inuit story. And a site about a
>>> bunch of people riding up there in VW vans. But Bob wasn't listed as
>>> driving there or coming on the trip later.
>>
>> http://www.vanagon.com/journeys/inuvik/index.htm
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So once again . I apologize for offending some people.Who have history
>>> with Bob or his wife.
>>>
>>> I suppose I could find me another 85-92 Diesel Golf or a Caddy
>>> Diesel
>>> , instead of a bug an the issue is resolved.
>>>
>>> Vern Diesel.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> I just found the REAL Bob Hoover Inuvit run. On the NEW type2 site.
> I
> only read the last page. Which explains why I couldn't get anything from
> the old site.Its all moved.
>
> I was supposed to put my attic stairs together today. So I can get my
> camping gear out of my living room. But it might not happen. I'm not
> sure
> but it looks like there's more Hoover material then the 800 pages of the
> sermons. Does the sermons just cover VWs and some writings . Or did it
> cover all his aircraft VW writings too .
>
> This is going to be some awesome reading.
>
> Diesel

There are no aircraft writings on the Sermons, it is however freely
available on some Yahoo group I think, shall see if I can find a Bookmark
on my pc, I know I saved it somewhere..

J.



>
>


--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:25:01 +0100, P.J.Berg >
wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:07:03 +0100, DogDiesel > wrote:
>
>>
>> "DogDiesel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "DogDiesel" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "DogDiesel" wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> You offered to contact her. i didnt ask you.
>>>>>
>>>>> no sir, I did NOT.... you even quoted my reply, but somehow got the
>>>>> above from it? very odd, indeed...here it is, again, in it's
>>>>> entirety:
>>>>> "not that I'm aware of... but the point Chris was making is that the
>>>>> material is copywrited, and you are asking someone to unlawfully copy
>>>>> that material for profit...."
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see an offer from me of any type there...
>>>>>
>>>>>>> if you
>>>>>>> really want the information, it is out there, in print....
>>>>>
>>>>>> No its not. Its been removed.
>>>>>
>>>>> no, it's out there...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Its been removed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> From everywhere. Even archives.
>>>>>
>>>>> odd, since I can find Bob's sermons and all his contributions to this
>>>>> group(and there are many) with a simple search... as I said, you
>>>>> don't
>>>>> *want* to find it...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Heres the quote.
>>>>
>>>> I would at least look for ways to send contributions to his widow for
>>>> every copy made and shared. I suppose she could decline and allow us
>>>> to
>>>> distribute Bob's work free if she so chooses.
>>>> I have tried to contact her through the Blog on another matter, but
>>>> received no reply.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I apologize for the misunderstanding. "I would at least look for
>>>> ways"
>>>> was interpreted wrong.
>>>> I didn't mean to offend anyone.
>>>>
>>>> I thought Bob wanted people to share who aren't selling his posts.
>>>> I'm
>>>> not doing this for profit. Means don't make any cash from it. I
>>>> wanted to
>>>> make a manual to put in my garage.
>>>>
>>>> And further research I came upon many post about the removal of the
>>>> sermons . I don't care to get involved.
>>>> I see now he just decided he didn't want anyone to have any of it.
>>>>
>>>> End of that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I never heard of the guy until about 2 months ago.
>>>>
>>>> Although I met the "other" pilot Bob Hoover before the Feds tried to
>>>> steal his license away. Thinking he was going to have a heart attack.
>>>> When he was doing "both engine off" barrel rolls at airshows in a
>>>> shrike
>>>> commander. With the gear down.
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore I found some of his material last night and this morning.
>>>> I
>>>> found Grendels saga last night and wished I found it this morning.
>>>> Because I was up for 4 hours . I rode a 82 Goldwing to Alaska ,And I
>>>> had
>>>> no issues. And it was nowhere near as bad as this.
>>>>
>>>> I found the Christmas story. And a bunch of his posts.
>>>>
>>>> Somebody pointed me to the Tulz last month. But I found a 9and a half
>>>> Tulz I think. Just now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I found a reference to an driving to Inuit story. And a site about a
>>>> bunch of people riding up there in VW vans. But Bob wasn't listed as
>>>> driving there or coming on the trip later.
>>>
>>> http://www.vanagon.com/journeys/inuvik/index.htm
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So once again . I apologize for offending some people.Who have history
>>>> with Bob or his wife.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose I could find me another 85-92 Diesel Golf or a Caddy
>>>> Diesel
>>>> , instead of a bug an the issue is resolved.
>>>>
>>>> Vern Diesel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> I just found the REAL Bob Hoover Inuvit run. On the NEW type2
>> site. I
>> only read the last page. Which explains why I couldn't get anything
>> from
>> the old site.Its all moved.
>>
>> I was supposed to put my attic stairs together today. So I can get my
>> camping gear out of my living room. But it might not happen. I'm not
>> sure
>> but it looks like there's more Hoover material then the 800 pages of the
>> sermons. Does the sermons just cover VWs and some writings . Or did it
>> cover all his aircraft VW writings too .
>>
>> This is going to be some awesome reading.
>>
>> Diesel
>
> There are no aircraft writings on the Sermons, it is however freely
> available on some Yahoo group I think, shall see if I can find a
> Bookmark on my pc, I know I saved it somewhere..
>
> J.



I cannot remember what is on here, it 'should' contain the HVX mods.
including CAD drawings, unfortunately I could not find a Mac program
compatible with the format.:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirVW/...ec=group&slk=1

Here is a link to a Google search string compiled by another user here on
RAMVA, unfortunately I cannot remember who put it together to give him the
proper kudos:
http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...=b&sitesearch=

J.



>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>


--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

"P.J.Berg" > wrote in message
news
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:25:01 +0100, P.J.Berg >
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:07:03 +0100, DogDiesel > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "DogDiesel" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "DogDiesel" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "DogDiesel" wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You offered to contact her. i didnt ask you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> no sir, I did NOT.... you even quoted my reply, but somehow got the
>>>>>> above from it? very odd, indeed...here it is, again, in it's
>>>>>> entirety:
>>>>>> "not that I'm aware of... but the point Chris was making is that the
>>>>>> material is copywrited, and you are asking someone to unlawfully copy
>>>>>> that material for profit...."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't see an offer from me of any type there...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> if you
>>>>>>>> really want the information, it is out there, in print....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No its not. Its been removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> no, it's out there...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its been removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From everywhere. Even archives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> odd, since I can find Bob's sermons and all his contributions to this
>>>>>> group(and there are many) with a simple search... as I said, you
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> *want* to find it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Heres the quote.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would at least look for ways to send contributions to his widow for
>>>>> every copy made and shared. I suppose she could decline and allow us
>>>>> to
>>>>> distribute Bob's work free if she so chooses.
>>>>> I have tried to contact her through the Blog on another matter, but
>>>>> received no reply.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologize for the misunderstanding. "I would at least look for
>>>>> ways"
>>>>> was interpreted wrong.
>>>>> I didn't mean to offend anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> I thought Bob wanted people to share who aren't selling his posts.
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> not doing this for profit. Means don't make any cash from it. I
>>>>> wanted to
>>>>> make a manual to put in my garage.
>>>>>
>>>>> And further research I came upon many post about the removal of the
>>>>> sermons . I don't care to get involved.
>>>>> I see now he just decided he didn't want anyone to have any of it.
>>>>>
>>>>> End of that.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I never heard of the guy until about 2 months ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although I met the "other" pilot Bob Hoover before the Feds tried to
>>>>> steal his license away. Thinking he was going to have a heart attack.
>>>>> When he was doing "both engine off" barrel rolls at airshows in a
>>>>> shrike
>>>>> commander. With the gear down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore I found some of his material last night and this morning.
>>>>> I
>>>>> found Grendels saga last night and wished I found it this morning.
>>>>> Because I was up for 4 hours . I rode a 82 Goldwing to Alaska ,And I
>>>>> had
>>>>> no issues. And it was nowhere near as bad as this.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found the Christmas story. And a bunch of his posts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Somebody pointed me to the Tulz last month. But I found a 9and a half
>>>>> Tulz I think. Just now.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I found a reference to an driving to Inuit story. And a site about a
>>>>> bunch of people riding up there in VW vans. But Bob wasn't listed as
>>>>> driving there or coming on the trip later.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.vanagon.com/journeys/inuvik/index.htm
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So once again . I apologize for offending some people.Who have history
>>>>> with Bob or his wife.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose I could find me another 85-92 Diesel Golf or a Caddy
>>>>> Diesel
>>>>> , instead of a bug an the issue is resolved.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vern Diesel.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> I just found the REAL Bob Hoover Inuvit run. On the NEW type2 site.
>>> I
>>> only read the last page. Which explains why I couldn't get anything
>>> from
>>> the old site.Its all moved.
>>>
>>> I was supposed to put my attic stairs together today. So I can get my
>>> camping gear out of my living room. But it might not happen. I'm not
>>> sure
>>> but it looks like there's more Hoover material then the 800 pages of the
>>> sermons. Does the sermons just cover VWs and some writings . Or did it
>>> cover all his aircraft VW writings too .
>>>
>>> This is going to be some awesome reading.
>>>
>>> Diesel
>>
>> There are no aircraft writings on the Sermons, it is however freely
>> available on some Yahoo group I think, shall see if I can find a
>> Bookmark on my pc, I know I saved it somewhere..
>>
>> J.
>
>
>
> I cannot remember what is on here, it 'should' contain the HVX mods.
> including CAD drawings, unfortunately I could not find a Mac program
> compatible with the format.:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AirVW/...ec=group&slk=1
>
> Here is a link to a Google search string compiled by another user here on
> RAMVA, unfortunately I cannot remember who put it together to give him the
> proper kudos:
> http://groups.google.com/groups/sear...=b&sitesearch=
>
> J.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Awesome , thanks.

"DogDiesel" wrote in message
...


>Heres the quote.

>I would at least look for ways to send contributions to his widow for
>every copy made and shared. I suppose she could decline and allow us to
>distribute Bob's work free if she so chooses.
>I have tried to contact her through the Blog on another matter, but
>received no reply.


>I apologize for the misunderstanding. "I would at least look for ways" was
>interpreted wrong.
>I didn't mean to offend anyone.

I don't think anyone here is offended, we are a thickskinned bunch... if we
weren't we wouldn't still be in this group...<G>
my point wasn't that it wasn't suggested, but that it wasn't me that
suggested it, you incorrectly attributed the quote to me..

On 11/24/2010 4:08 PM, John Stafford wrote:
> In >,
> Jan > wrote:
>
>> On 11/22/2010 8:53 PM, DogDiesel wrote:
>>> "Jan > wrote in message
>>
>>>> So... are you saying that the first 50 people should pay, but the
>>>> following 2500 should get it for free?
>>>
>>> No Im saying 50 people pias. And 2500 cant buy it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tough ****ski, comerade. "product is out of stock and no longer
>> available from manufacturer". It happens. If someone were to start
>> producing a similar alternative, it would have to be different enough to
>> not be considered copyright infringement. If someone wee to start
>> copying the original and sell or give them away, it would be considered
>> a crime.
>
> It's a peculiar kind of crime because each copyright infringement is
> taken on a case-by-case basis, and one has to _register_ the copyright
> before the case goes to court.


Anyone creating original artwork, be it a painting or literary work in
any format, automatically owns the copyright to it, regardless of
format. You cannot GIVE it away without putting it in writing. You
cannot deny it either. It's yours to keep if you wrote it.

If you need to go to court to defend it, you need to be able to show
that it was your original work. That YOU didn't steal it from someone
else. In case of usenet articles, a date and originating IP address
should be fairly easy to track down.

To OWN a copyright, you don't have to register anything or prove
anything. It's yours from the second the artwork or article was written.
It's not like a patent, which you have to apply for. (And pay for).

On 11/24/2010 8:22 AM, P.J.Berg wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:05:22 +0100, Jan Andersson
> > wrote:
>
>> In simple terms, Bob's "Sermons" are a compilation of his individual
>> posts and articles he wrote on several different forums.
>>
>> If you happen to search Usenet and see him reply to someone with tech
>> advice, you are in fact reading a piece of the Sermons. The only thing
>> you are missing is the hard work of combing through the electronic
>> universe and collecting them all into one CD. THAT is what the Sermons
>> were. A collection of tech advice and articles, edited and produced
>> into a format that is easier to read and browse through.
>>
>> The source material is still out there, scattered around in a million
>> pieces.
>>
>> It is difficult to delete messages you send to Usenet. I worked for a
>> phone company/ISP and I for a while moderated this group by deleting
>> inappropriate posts. Mere mortals cannot
>
>
>
> Since we both go back here a long time and "knew" Mr. Hoover I will give
> my thoughts on this.
>
> 1. I am sure Bob would like his writings to be an asset to the Vw
> community even after his death, and therefore made available.
> 2. I have a legit copy of the Sermons bought from the original source
> BusBoys or something like that, a Type 2 company anyways.
> 3. Under Norwegian law I am entitled to make a backup copy of any Cd/Dvd
> bought by legit means. So if I kept the backup and sold the original I
> would be covered legally for the sake of argument.
> 4. I personally really see no reason for not making this material
> available for the greater good of the community as a whole.
> 5. And just for clarity, the original is nothing more than a "Home
> burned" copy, not that it matters much, just the fact.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> J.
>
>


Well, regardless of what we think, we can't break the law and go against
what was his last wish on this matter... I suppose his wife would be the
only one who could give us permission.

A backup copy for your own use is allowed in Finland too, not sure about
the US. But if you sell or give away the original, you are no longer
entitled to keep the copy either.


If someone were to compile a website collection of links and searches
that pull the same information from the web and usenet, I'm sure that's
perfectly ok. It's like making another "CD" from scratch, using the same
already once published information. The original author still holds
copyright to the content. Whoever makes the website or hosts the links,
does not own copyright to the work displayed. And should not try to
"sell" it either, but this is a gray area now that I'm not so sure of.
Selling memberships to a locked website to view the links that lead to
openly available articles? Weird but I guess there's a market for
anything

I did study copyright law among other laws in college, but that was in
Finland. And a long time ago.

In article >,
Jan Andersson > wrote:

> On 11/24/2010 4:08 PM, John Stafford wrote:

> > It's a peculiar kind of crime because each copyright infringement is
> > taken on a case-by-case basis, and one has to _register_ the copyright
> > before the case goes to court.
>
>
> Anyone creating original artwork, be it a painting or literary work in
> any format, automatically owns the copyright to it, regardless of
> format. You cannot GIVE it away without putting it in writing. You
> cannot deny it either. It's yours to keep if you wrote it.

True

> If you need to go to court to defend it, you need to be able to show
> that it was your original work. That YOU didn't steal it from someone
> else. In case of usenet articles, a date and originating IP address
> should be fairly easy to track down.

Not quite. The copyright must be registered before you go into court or
the case will not be heard. First things first.

On 11/25/2010 11:30 AM, John J Stafford wrote:
> In >,
> Jan > wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2010 4:08 PM, John Stafford wrote:
>
>>> It's a peculiar kind of crime because each copyright infringement is
>>> taken on a case-by-case basis, and one has to _register_ the copyright
>>> before the case goes to court.
>>
>>
>> Anyone creating original artwork, be it a painting or literary work in
>> any format, automatically owns the copyright to it, regardless of
>> format. You cannot GIVE it away without putting it in writing. You
>> cannot deny it either. It's yours to keep if you wrote it.
>
> True
>
>> If you need to go to court to defend it, you need to be able to show
>> that it was your original work. That YOU didn't steal it from someone
>> else. In case of usenet articles, a date and originating IP address
>> should be fairly easy to track down.
>
> Not quite. The copyright must be registered before you go into court or
> the case will not be heard. First things first.

I suppose that takes care of the proof. Didn't know it had to happen
before and outside of the court. I stand corrected

In article >,
Jan Andersson > wrote:

> On 11/25/2010 11:30 AM, John J Stafford wrote:
> > In >,
> > Jan > wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/24/2010 4:08 PM, John Stafford wrote:
> >
> >>> It's a peculiar kind of crime because each copyright infringement is
> >>> taken on a case-by-case basis, and one has to _register_ the copyright
> >>> before the case goes to court.
> >>
> >>
> >> Anyone creating original artwork, be it a painting or literary work in
> >> any format, automatically owns the copyright to it, regardless of
> >> format. You cannot GIVE it away without putting it in writing. You
> >> cannot deny it either. It's yours to keep if you wrote it.
> >
> > True
> >
> >> If you need to go to court to defend it, you need to be able to show
> >> that it was your original work. That YOU didn't steal it from someone
> >> else. In case of usenet articles, a date and originating IP address
> >> should be fairly easy to track down.
> >
> > Not quite. The copyright must be registered before you go into court or
> > the case will not be heard. First things first.
>
> I suppose that takes care of the proof. Didn't know it had to happen
> before and outside of the court. I stand corrected

Registering the copyright prepares the issue for the legal arena. The
proof is not made by registering. Proof is presented by yourself or
attorney in court, and decided by the court. That is just one reason
every charge is taken on a case-by-case basis.

On 11/25/2010 10:30 AM, John J Stafford wrote:

>
> Not quite. The copyright must be registered before you go into court or
> the case will not be heard. First things first.

You're wrong here brother. That was the rule years ago but hasn't been
the case for some time now. I deal with both patent and copyright in my
work and what you've been told is true. The moment an author reduces an
idea to a medium (paper, canvass, stone, CD, DVD, etc.) the author owns
the copyright. Technically, you don't even have to put a copyright
notice (i.e. "Copyright Bob Hoover Enterprises 1999") though many still
do. If you ever have to go to court you have to prove that you are the
author and when it was reduced to medium, but once that is accomplished
you are the clear and legal owner of the work.