US car dealers turn away Canadian new-car buyers - is that legal?

MoPar Man wrote:
> Wes 94 ZR580 wrote:
>
>> Canadian dealers have the same restrictions on selling new
>> vehicles to US purchasers. There are even stickers on the
>> vehicle that state "not intended for sale in the US', or
>> something like that.
>
> My question remains.
>
> Do US franchise agreements between CAR DEALERS ->and<- AUTO MAKERS
> (such as Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Volkswagon, BMW,
> Mercedes, Volvo) stipulate that they cannot sell new vehicles to
> purchasers with out-of-boundary primary residential addresses?
>
> Can a dealer in Michigan refuse a sale to a resident of Ohio, for
> example?
>
> Are there not US trade laws (restraint of trade?) that would make such
> a practice illegal?
>
> Would it be the case that the prohibition of selling to a Canadian
> customer is technically illegal, but the Canadian customer has no
> recourse under US law?

Yes they have agreements that state where a dealer can sell vehicles.
They don't restrict the dealer from selling to other customers they just
state that Joe-Bobs Chevrolet will be the only authorized dealer for a
certain area, and that the company won't set up another dealer for a set
time period.
As for restricting the sales to other areas, it depends on the federal
and state emission and safety laws. In NY for example a NEW vehicle must
meet NY standards (which are the same as California) You cannot buy a
vehicle new in another state and register it in NY unless it meets those
standards.

As for buying in Canada and registering it in the US. It is usually
restricted due to the emissions and the high importation fees. Those are
Federal importation rules. Same ones that apply if you buy a Ferrari and
try to import it. They have to go through a Federal inspection and
retrofit so they comply with the laws in the US. Doesn't matter if the
car was bought in Canada or Africa they still have to be imported the
same way.

The same import restrictions apply taking the vehicle into Canada.
No laws saying that those restrictions are illegal exist.

The dealer can refuse to sell to anyone. They own the vehicles and can
sell or not sell to whomever they please. They can even have you removed
from the dealership and arrested for trespassing if they desire.


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
NRA Member
Pacifism - The theory that if they'd fed
Jeffrey Dahmer enough human flesh,
he'd have become a vegan.

Steve W. wrote:
> MoPar Man wrote:
>> Wes 94 ZR580 wrote:
>>
>>> Canadian dealers have the same restrictions on selling new
>>> vehicles to US purchasers. There are even stickers on the
>>> vehicle that state "not intended for sale in the US', or something
>>> like that.
>>
>> My question remains.
>>
>> Do US franchise agreements between CAR DEALERS ->and<- AUTO MAKERS
>> (such as Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Volkswagon, BMW,
>> Mercedes, Volvo) stipulate that they cannot sell new vehicles to
>> purchasers with out-of-boundary primary residential addresses?
>>
>> Can a dealer in Michigan refuse a sale to a resident of Ohio, for
>> example?
>>
>> Are there not US trade laws (restraint of trade?) that would make such
>> a practice illegal?
>>
>> Would it be the case that the prohibition of selling to a Canadian
>> customer is technically illegal, but the Canadian customer has no
>> recourse under US law?
>
> Yes they have agreements that state where a dealer can sell vehicles.
> They don't restrict the dealer from selling to other customers they just
> state that Joe-Bobs Chevrolet will be the only authorized dealer for a
> certain area, and that the company won't set up another dealer for a set
> time period.
> As for restricting the sales to other areas, it depends on the federal
> and state emission and safety laws. In NY for example a NEW vehicle must
> meet NY standards (which are the same as California) You cannot buy a
> vehicle new in another state and register it in NY unless it meets those
> standards.
>
> As for buying in Canada and registering it in the US. It is usually
> restricted due to the emissions and the high importation fees. Those are
> Federal importation rules. Same ones that apply if you buy a Ferrari and
> try to import it. They have to go through a Federal inspection and
> retrofit so they comply with the laws in the US. Doesn't matter if the
> car was bought in Canada or Africa they still have to be imported the
> same way.
>
> The same import restrictions apply taking the vehicle into Canada.
> No laws saying that those restrictions are illegal exist.
>
> The dealer can refuse to sell to anyone. They own the vehicles and can
> sell or not sell to whomever they please. They can even have you removed
> from the dealership and arrested for trespassing if they desire.
>
>
there may be an issue with warranty as well. I had a Ram 3500 pick up
come in with the check engine light on. we found it needed a gas cap but
warranty would not cover it because the vehicle was manufactured and
sold in Mexico. we were told the vehicle has no warranty in the USA.

Top Poster Mike Hunter wrote:

> "MoPar Man" > wrote:

> > My question remains.
> >
> > Are there not US trade laws (restraint of trade?) that would
> > make such a practice illegal?

> There are no such laws.

Can a Denny's refuse to serve or do business with black customers?
There is no law against it?

> Franchise dealers have no obligation to sell to anybody, just
> as they have no obligation to sell at a particular price.

Why would a franchise owner refuse someone paying MSRP, paying in cash
(or bank draft, or some other registered security) ???

Why do US dealerships say that it's their FRANCHISE AGREEMENT that
prohibits them from selling to Canadians?

What salesman would be happy with the franchise owner nixing such a
sale?

Why are we hearing reports of US dealerships getting letters from auto
makers reminding them that they can't sell to Canadians?

What about this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraint_of_trade

"Steve W." wrote:

> Yes they have agreements that state where a dealer can sell
> vehicles. They don't restrict the dealer from selling to other
> customers they just state that Joe-Bobs Chevrolet will be the
> only authorized dealer for a certain area, and that the
> company won't set up another dealer for a set time period.

We are not talking about restrictions on where (physically,
geographically) a dealer can operate from.

We are talking about a US dealer refusing to sell a new car to a
Canadian customer soley on the basis that the customer is Canadian.

There is no question as to the ability of the Canadian to produce
funds or sufficient payment. There is no issue as to how the Canadian
customer moves the purchased vehicle away from the dealership to it's
destination (where-ever that may be). The sale is not contingent on
the dealer delivering the car to the Canadian customer's place of
residence, or a responsibility to insure the car can be registered for
operation in the customer's jursidiction.

> The dealer can refuse to sell to anyone.

Restraint of trade laws say that it is illegal to have a contract
between two parties that restricts trade between them.

That would make it illegal for a car maker to have a clause in a
franchise agreement stating that the dealer is prohibited from selling
products to specified persons or groups.

If a GM franchise agreement with a Detroit car dealership states that
the dealership can't sell new cars to Canadian citizens, then couldn't
a MacDonald's franchise agreement have a clause saying that Big Mac's
can't be sold to blacks?

Are you saying there is no law that would make such a clause illegal?

TNKev wrote:

> there may be an issue with warranty as well.

For the last time.

This is not about warranties,
This is not about emmissions or other regulations
This is not about import/export issues, duties or taxes

This is about a Canadian walking into a US dealership and plunking
down a money order or cashiers check for the full MSRP window-sticker
(Monroney) amount for a given new vehicle (plus any applicable state
or local retail sales tax) and loading the vehicle onto a flatbed
truck and driving away with it.

Why on earth would a US car dealer turn away a sale like that?

The reason being offered is that the FRANCHISE AGREEMENT prohibits
sales to Canadians. So I'm asking if such an agreement is legal,
given restraint-of-trade laws.

MoPar Man wrote:

> Can a Denny's refuse to serve or do business with black customers?
> There is no law against it?

I have no horse in this race, but from a legal standpoint, blacks are a
protected class. Canadians are not.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

MoPar Man wrote:

> If a GM franchise agreement with a Detroit car dealership states that
> the dealership can't sell new cars to Canadian citizens, then couldn't
> a MacDonald's franchise agreement have a clause saying that Big Mac's
> can't be sold to blacks?
>
> Are you saying there is no law that would make such a clause illegal?

Blacks: Protected class.

Canadians: Not protected class.

Certain laws trump others.

Bill Putney
(To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with the letter 'x')

Bill Putney wrote:

> > If a GM franchise agreement with a Detroit car dealership states
> > that the dealership can't sell new cars to Canadian citizens,
> > then couldn't a MacDonald's franchise agreement have a clause
> > saying that Big Mac's can't be sold to blacks?
> >
> > Are you saying there is no law that would make such a clause
> > illegal?
>
> Blacks: Protected class.

Ok, replacem blacks with Asians, or native indians.

> Certain laws trump others.

Ok, what law trumps what other law then?

MoPar Man wrote:
> TNKev wrote:
>
>> there may be an issue with warranty as well.
>
> For the last time.
>
> This is not about warranties,
> This is not about emmissions or other regulations
> This is not about import/export issues, duties or taxes
>
> This is about a Canadian walking into a US dealership and plunking
> down a money order or cashiers check for the full MSRP window-sticker
> (Monroney) amount for a given new vehicle (plus any applicable state
> or local retail sales tax) and loading the vehicle onto a flatbed
> truck and driving away with it.
>
> Why on earth would a US car dealer turn away a sale like that?
>
> The reason being offered is that the FRANCHISE AGREEMENT prohibits
> sales to Canadians. So I'm asking if such an agreement is legal,
> given restraint-of-trade laws.

Yes it is legal. Restraint of trade has NOTHING to do with Federal
Import/Export laws.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

A franchise agreement is a private contract. If the franchisor
stipulates a condition that the franchisee cannot sell across an
international boundary, then the franchisee has to choose to honour, or
defy the conditions of the agreement. If the penalty for breaching the
contract is loss of the franchise, then that is the result.

I believe that only discrimination that you can't include in a contract
would be areas protected by constitutional provisions, or by specific
legislation. Certainly here in Canada protection from racial
discrimination is provided by the Charter of Rights. Any service
business has the right to refuse service to anyone they choose, as long
as it does not violate Charter Rights.

Ford operates in Canada as a separate company, Ford Motor Company of
Canada, and that could lead to warranty restrictions if they so choose. ?

MoPar Man wrote:
> Bill Putney wrote:
>
>>> If a GM franchise agreement with a Detroit car dealership states
>>> that the dealership can't sell new cars to Canadian citizens,
>>> then couldn't a MacDonald's franchise agreement have a clause
>>> saying that Big Mac's can't be sold to blacks?
>>>
>>> Are you saying there is no law that would make such a clause
>>> illegal?
>> Blacks: Protected class.
>
> Ok, replacem blacks with Asians, or native indians.
>
>> Certain laws trump others.
>
> Ok, what law trumps what other law then?