EPA caught VW cheating - how does the car know it's being tested?

Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions
ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.

REFERENCES:
http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887
http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx
http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles
etc.

My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions?

On Sat, 19 Sep 2015 00:19:10 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm
> wrote:

>Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
>2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions
>ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.
>
>REFERENCES:
>http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887
>http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx
>http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles
>etc.
>
>My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions?

My guess is that anytime something was connected to the diagnostic
connector the car turned on all the emissions systems. I know that
here in AZ they have been doing the emissions test for cars for quite
a few years now by plugging into the diagnostic connector and reading
the computer looking for pending codes that haven't turned on the CEL.
If you have more then a couple pending codes you fail. My PT is a
2009 model and it's always been tested that way so the time frame is
certainly doable.

On 9/18/2015 8:19 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
> Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
> 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions
> ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.
>
> REFERENCES:
> http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887
> http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx
> http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles
> etc.
>
> My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions?
>

I found that interesting for two things. I assume the car's computer
knows an instrument is plugged in so it changes the program.

I also find it interesting that a large allegedly reputable company
would do something intentional to cheat like that. Too easy to get
caught or ratted out.

On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> I also find it interesting that a large allegedly reputable company
> would do something intentional to cheat like that. Too easy to get
> caught or ratted out.

According to the news reports, VW admitted culpability.

If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
the recall, since it's not a safety issue.

They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
also do worse on emissions testing results).

It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
think, because of those two results.

Do you agree?
Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their cars?

On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> I assume the car's computer
> knows an instrument is plugged in so it changes the program.

Very few states use OBD emissions testing, and certainly California
doesn't yet, where California is fining VW along with the EPA.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/smogche...bd_only_im.pdf

Most use tailpipe testing.

Some, like California, run the car through the Federal Test Procedure
on a dynomometer.

Given thats at least three different procedures (where each state can
easily be different), I don't see *how* the engine computer *knows* it's
being tested for emissions.

Since almost no states use the OBD method, that's why I asked how the car
knows it is being tested.

On 9/18/2015 9:42 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I also find it interesting that a large allegedly reputable company
>> would do something intentional to cheat like that. Too easy to get
>> caught or ratted out.
>
> According to the news reports, VW admitted culpability.
>
> If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
> the recall, since it's not a safety issue.
>
> They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
> also do worse on emissions testing results).
>
> It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
> think, because of those two results.
>
> Do you agree?
> Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their cars?
>
Will you have any choice?
If the test procedure for those cars is changed to test the "real"
emissions, they will FAIL.
If you care about air quality, you have to do that.
Here in Oregon, you don't get your license plates renewed if you fail.

You want VW to FIX the problem consistently with the
original driveablilty and economy.
Since that's likely not possible, what do you do now?
Force them to replace the whole car?

Fix the emissions by reprogramming the computer
(Let the air quality test people enforce owner compliance.
Maybe require a recall complete document. Maybe require
VW to supply a zillion adapters to make the tests right.)
AND
refund the owner the current (pre-disclosure)
bluebook value of the vehicle...let that be the fine and paid to
the people actually financially harmed? That sounds like a simple
solution that puts the cash where it's needed and fixes the emissions
and hits VW where it hurts. No fuss, no muss, no new laws, just
enforce the existing ones.
It's a win-win...except for VW.

OR we could just
Fine them billions and fritter it away wherever such fines
are frittered?

Do nothing and get a better gas mask?

Ewald Böhm wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I assume the car's computer
>> knows an instrument is plugged in so it changes the program.
>
> Very few states use OBD emissions testing, and certainly California
> doesn't yet, where California is fining VW along with the EPA.
>
> http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/smogche...bd_only_im.pdf
>
> Most use tailpipe testing.
>
> Some, like California, run the car through the Federal Test Procedure
> on a dynomometer.
>
> Given thats at least three different procedures (where each state can
> easily be different), I don't see *how* the engine computer *knows* it's
> being tested for emissions.
>
> Since almost no states use the OBD method, that's why I asked how the car
> knows it is being tested.
>

How do you figure that "almost no states use OBD" testing. In fact most
of the states do not use a dyno any longer.

Alaska, Arizona, California (in areas that require "enhanced" emissions
testing), Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky,
Maine, Massachusetts, Missouri (St. Louis), Nevada, New Hampshire, North
Carolina, Oregon, Texas (Houston and Dallas/Ft. Worth), Utah (Salt Lake
City), Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin, New Jersey, New York (in areas
that require emissions testing), Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh and
Philadelphia) and Virginia ALL use some type of OBD II testing, some use
both OBD II and tailpipe.

As to how it knows it's being tested. Simple, as soon as the OBD test
link gets plugged into the port it starts asking the ECM which protocol
it communicates with. Emissions testing uses a specific test protocol,
that doesn't query ALL of the systems on the vehicle. Easy enough to
tell the ECM - When this protocol is queried activate this programming.

No different than the way software is set up in some cars to change the
driving parameters based on different "modes" or valet keys or key fob type.


--
Steve W.

Ewald Böhm wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I assume the car's computer
>> knows an instrument is plugged in so it changes the program.
>
> Very few states use OBD emissions testing, and certainly California
> doesn't yet, where California is fining VW along with the EPA.
>
> http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/smogche...bd_only_im.pdf
>
> Most use tailpipe testing.
>
> Some, like California, run the car through the Federal Test Procedure
> on a dynomometer.
>
> Given thats at least three different procedures (where each state can
> easily be different), I don't see *how* the engine computer *knows* it's
> being tested for emissions.
>
> Since almost no states use the OBD method, that's why I asked how the car
> knows it is being tested.
>


http://obdclearinghouse.com/index.php

--
Steve W.

On 9/19/2015 12:42 AM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Sep 2015 22:45:53 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> I also find it interesting that a large allegedly reputable company
>> would do something intentional to cheat like that. Too easy to get
>> caught or ratted out.
>
> According to the news reports, VW admitted culpability.
>
> If I were the owner of the affected cars, I would NOT bring them in for
> the recall, since it's not a safety issue.
>
> They will definitely lose performance after the "fix" (while they will
> also do worse on emissions testing results).
>
> It's a lose:lose situation for the car owner to get the car "fixed", I
> think, because of those two results.
>
> Do you agree?
> Is there anything "good" that will happen if the owners "fix" their cars?
>

I'm likely mistaken, but my gut sense is that lower emissions
means lower performance, and lower mileage. My guess is that
the "fix" will be a downgrade of some kind.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 9/18/2015 5:19 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:
> Apparently Volkswagen/Audi cheated on the USA emissions tests since
> 2009 to 2015 by turning off the EGR to lower nitrogen oxide emissions
> ONLY when the car was being tested for emissions.
>
> REFERENCES:
> http://blog.ucsusa.org/volkswagen-ca...cle-recall-887
> http://www.engineering.com/AdvancedM...EPA-Tests.aspx
> http://hothardware.com/news/vw-inten...-482k-vehicles
> etc.
>
> My question is HOW did the car *know* it was being *tested* for emissions?

Can't speak for all states, but in California one of the first steps in
an emissions test is for the codes to be read via the OBD-II port. They
won't even proceed to the tailpipe test if there are incomplete
self-tests on the vehicle (I ran into this once when I brought a vehicle
in just after I changed the car battery).

It would be rather simple for the vehicle's computer to note that the
OBD-II port was active and to change the emissions system settings for
the next 30 minutes to an hour.

I suspect that most states with smog tests read the codes via the OBD-II
port prior to proceeding with tailpipe testing.

My brother-in-law had a Smog Pros franchise for many years and just sold
it last month. In some cases he would do pre-tests prior to hooking to
the state's computer so a vehicle could be repaired before being
labeled a gross polluter. A VW TDI would never pass a pre-test via the
EGA (exhaust gas analyzer unless the codes had been read first. But I
doubt he ever had done a pre-test on a VW TDI.

He told me that once he had a vehicle that was only slightly out of
compliance and he offered to repair it for $40. The owner declined,
saying he would fix it himself. Without an EGA that really isn't a good
idea, but the owner left then came back for his free retest under the
"Pass or Retest Free." So he did the retest and now the vehicle was so
far out of compliance that it was a gross polluter. The owner then
wanted to pay $40 for the repair and have it tested again but it was too
late. He could get the repairs done but the vehicle's status had been
sent to the state and now the owner had to take the car to a different
"Test-Only" smog check station and pay again. He also would have to now
get a smog check every year instead of every two years (that requirement
is no longer in effect).