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#1
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Ping Steve W.
I bought a new car, took it to the dealer with less than 100 miles on
it, and got the car back with the steering wheel off center. Someone hit something. They let me look under the car, and at the initial alignment readings. Thrust angle is zero, and I didn't see any visible damage. But both front wheels were pointed right with the wheel centered, and the total toe was close to specs. I am assuming that the rack is damaged, but I cannot remember any conclusive test for it. I didn't see the toe on turns reading, and I'm not sure if that reading will answer my question. I also assume that the turning radius will be different between right and left turns, but I don't have a good way to measure that either. Any suggestions on proving that the cause is the steering rack? As a note, the steering wheel was not that far off. The toe on each side was about 2 degrees off - one in and one out. Finally, would you worry about this, or just shrug it off if the dealer refuses to replace the rack? They are replacing the wheel, and they did the alignment, but I cannot prove that it happened there. |
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#2
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Ping Steve W.
Bill Vanek wrote:
> I bought a new car, took it to the dealer with less than 100 miles on > it, and got the car back with the steering wheel off center. Someone > hit something. They let me look under the car, and at the initial > alignment readings. Thrust angle is zero, and I didn't see any visible > damage. But both front wheels were pointed right with the wheel > centered, and the total toe was close to specs. I am assuming that the > rack is damaged, but I cannot remember any conclusive test for it. I > didn't see the toe on turns reading, and I'm not sure if that reading > will answer my question. I also assume that the turning radius will be > different between right and left turns, but I don't have a good way to > measure that either. Any suggestions on proving that the cause is the > steering rack? As a note, the steering wheel was not that far off. The > toe on each side was about 2 degrees off - one in and one out. > > Finally, would you worry about this, or just shrug it off if the > dealer refuses to replace the rack? They are replacing the wheel, and > they did the alignment, but I cannot prove that it happened there. What was it going in for originally? It takes some serious force to damage a rack. I would expect telltale marks at the mounts if it shifted as well as physical damage that should be readily visible. Rim/tire damage as well as steering knuckle damage on one side. Possibly lower A-arm damage as well. Being a dealer they may have simply removed the damaged parts, replaced them and did the alignment with the wheel slightly off. Hard to say. The problem then becomes proving it. For that you would need to prove that the various fasteners were removed/replaced, that the parts were different and that it didn't enter the shop that way. Or get them to admit to causing it. What to do is a big item. Possibly go over the dealer to the companies customer satisfaction people. They may tell the dealer to replace the rack as well. -- Steve W. |
#3
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Ping Steve W.
On Thu, 25 May 2017 08:22:03 -0400, "Steve W." >
wrote: >Bill Vanek wrote: >> I bought a new car, took it to the dealer with less than 100 miles on >> it, and got the car back with the steering wheel off center. Someone >> hit something. They let me look under the car, and at the initial >> alignment readings. Thrust angle is zero, and I didn't see any visible >> damage. But both front wheels were pointed right with the wheel >> centered, and the total toe was close to specs. I am assuming that the >> rack is damaged, but I cannot remember any conclusive test for it. I >> didn't see the toe on turns reading, and I'm not sure if that reading >> will answer my question. I also assume that the turning radius will be >> different between right and left turns, but I don't have a good way to >> measure that either. Any suggestions on proving that the cause is the >> steering rack? As a note, the steering wheel was not that far off. The >> toe on each side was about 2 degrees off - one in and one out. >> >> Finally, would you worry about this, or just shrug it off if the >> dealer refuses to replace the rack? They are replacing the wheel, and >> they did the alignment, but I cannot prove that it happened there. > > >What was it going in for originally? >It takes some serious force to damage a rack. I would expect telltale >marks at the mounts if it shifted as well as physical damage that should >be readily visible. Rim/tire damage as well as steering knuckle damage >on one side. Possibly lower A-arm damage as well. Being a dealer they >may have simply removed the damaged parts, replaced them and did the >alignment with the wheel slightly off. Hard to say. > >The problem then becomes proving it. For that you would need to prove >that the various fasteners were removed/replaced, that the parts were >different and that it didn't enter the shop that way. Or get them to >admit to causing it. > >What to do is a big item. Possibly go over the dealer to the companies >customer satisfaction people. They may tell the dealer to replace the >rack as well. The only physical damage I saw was the wheel, and even it isn't all that bad - just a couple of scrapes, and it's not bent. The camber and caster were still right on the money. They have cameras there, and I watched the footage with the service manager. Whatever happened was not on camera, so it is still my word against theirs, but it's also obvious they didn't do any sort of damage repair to the car. All it was in for was a window regulator, so no one had any reason to drive it. I'm assuming the trim tech took it to get lunch, smacked a curb or something, looked the car over and didn't see any damage, so he shrugged it off. I didn't see any damage either at first. There is scraping at the very bottom of the fascia, but nowhere else. I think he slid - understeered - into something, the front of the wheel hit and pushed both front wheels to the right. The only damage on the wheel is two scrapes 180 degrees apart, and only on the outside of the wheel. Nothing on the inside, and nothing obvious on the tire. It's really pretty strange. To be honest, I think he might have twisted the stub shaft on the rack. I can't think of anything else. |
#4
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Ping Steve W.
On 05/25/2017 08:35 AM, Bill Vanek wrote:
> I'm assuming the trim tech took it to get lunch, smacked a curb or > something, looked the car over and didn't see any damage, so he > shrugged it off. I didn't see any damage either at first. There is > scraping at the very bottom of the fascia, but nowhere else. I think > he slid - understeered - into something, the front of the wheel hit > and pushed both front wheels to the right. The only damage on the > wheel is two scrapes 180 degrees apart, and only on the outside of the > wheel. Nothing on the inside, and nothing obvious on the tire. It's > really pretty strange. To be honest, I think he might have twisted the > stub shaft on the rack. I can't think of anything else. From now on, whenever I leave my car for repair I'm going to photograph the odometer in front of an employee before I leave. -- Cheers, Bev "Tip: Place your houseplants in front of the television during the next presidential debate and watch how leafy they get." -- Scott Adams |
#5
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Ping Steve W.
On Thu, 25 May 2017 09:27:09 -0700, The Real Bev
> wrote: >On 05/25/2017 08:35 AM, Bill Vanek wrote: > >> I'm assuming the trim tech took it to get lunch, smacked a curb or >> something, looked the car over and didn't see any damage, so he >> shrugged it off. I didn't see any damage either at first. There is >> scraping at the very bottom of the fascia, but nowhere else. I think >> he slid - understeered - into something, the front of the wheel hit >> and pushed both front wheels to the right. The only damage on the >> wheel is two scrapes 180 degrees apart, and only on the outside of the >> wheel. Nothing on the inside, and nothing obvious on the tire. It's >> really pretty strange. To be honest, I think he might have twisted the >> stub shaft on the rack. I can't think of anything else. > > From now on, whenever I leave my car for repair I'm going to photograph >the odometer in front of an employee before I leave. That's a good idea, but road tests are normal for many types of repairs. |
#6
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Ping Steve W.
On 05/25/2017 09:40 AM, Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2017 09:27:09 -0700, The Real Bev > > wrote: > >>On 05/25/2017 08:35 AM, Bill Vanek wrote: >> >>> I'm assuming the trim tech took it to get lunch, smacked a curb or >>> something, looked the car over and didn't see any damage, so he >>> shrugged it off. I didn't see any damage either at first. There is >>> scraping at the very bottom of the fascia, but nowhere else. I think >>> he slid - understeered - into something, the front of the wheel hit >>> and pushed both front wheels to the right. The only damage on the >>> wheel is two scrapes 180 degrees apart, and only on the outside of the >>> wheel. Nothing on the inside, and nothing obvious on the tire. It's >>> really pretty strange. To be honest, I think he might have twisted the >>> stub shaft on the rack. I can't think of anything else. >> >> From now on, whenever I leave my car for repair I'm going to photograph >>the odometer in front of an employee before I leave. > > That's a good idea, but road tests are normal for many types of > repairs. Sure, but this is cheap insurance! -- Cheers, Bev "Dammit I'm Mad" is "Dammit I'm Mad" spelled backwards. |
#7
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Ping Steve W.
Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Thu, 25 May 2017 08:22:03 -0400, "Steve W." > > wrote: > >> Bill Vanek wrote: >>> I bought a new car, took it to the dealer with less than 100 miles on >>> it, and got the car back with the steering wheel off center. Someone >>> hit something. They let me look under the car, and at the initial >>> alignment readings. Thrust angle is zero, and I didn't see any visible >>> damage. But both front wheels were pointed right with the wheel >>> centered, and the total toe was close to specs. I am assuming that the >>> rack is damaged, but I cannot remember any conclusive test for it. I >>> didn't see the toe on turns reading, and I'm not sure if that reading >>> will answer my question. I also assume that the turning radius will be >>> different between right and left turns, but I don't have a good way to >>> measure that either. Any suggestions on proving that the cause is the >>> steering rack? As a note, the steering wheel was not that far off. The >>> toe on each side was about 2 degrees off - one in and one out. >>> >>> Finally, would you worry about this, or just shrug it off if the >>> dealer refuses to replace the rack? They are replacing the wheel, and >>> they did the alignment, but I cannot prove that it happened there. >> >> What was it going in for originally? >> It takes some serious force to damage a rack. I would expect telltale >> marks at the mounts if it shifted as well as physical damage that should >> be readily visible. Rim/tire damage as well as steering knuckle damage >> on one side. Possibly lower A-arm damage as well. Being a dealer they >> may have simply removed the damaged parts, replaced them and did the >> alignment with the wheel slightly off. Hard to say. >> >> The problem then becomes proving it. For that you would need to prove >> that the various fasteners were removed/replaced, that the parts were >> different and that it didn't enter the shop that way. Or get them to >> admit to causing it. >> >> What to do is a big item. Possibly go over the dealer to the companies >> customer satisfaction people. They may tell the dealer to replace the >> rack as well. > > The only physical damage I saw was the wheel, and even it isn't all > that bad - just a couple of scrapes, and it's not bent. The camber and > caster were still right on the money. They have cameras there, and I > watched the footage with the service manager. Whatever happened was > not on camera, so it is still my word against theirs, but it's also > obvious they didn't do any sort of damage repair to the car. All it > was in for was a window regulator, so no one had any reason to drive > it. I'm assuming the trim tech took it to get lunch, smacked a curb or > something, looked the car over and didn't see any damage, so he > shrugged it off. I didn't see any damage either at first. There is > scraping at the very bottom of the fascia, but nowhere else. I think > he slid - understeered - into something, the front of the wheel hit > and pushed both front wheels to the right. The only damage on the > wheel is two scrapes 180 degrees apart, and only on the outside of the > wheel. Nothing on the inside, and nothing obvious on the tire. It's > really pretty strange. To be honest, I think he might have twisted the > stub shaft on the rack. I can't think of anything else. What make, year model? I'll see if there's anything that might flex or give if it slid and he held the wheel. I know some of the small Fords had an intermediate shaft joint that would twist if they were hit. -- Steve W. |
#8
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Ping Steve W.
On Sun, 28 May 2017 01:42:32 -0400, "Steve W." >
wrote: >Bill Vanek wrote: >> On Thu, 25 May 2017 08:22:03 -0400, "Steve W." > >> wrote: >> >>> Bill Vanek wrote: >>>> I bought a new car, took it to the dealer with less than 100 miles on >>>> it, and got the car back with the steering wheel off center. Someone >>>> hit something. They let me look under the car, and at the initial >>>> alignment readings. Thrust angle is zero, and I didn't see any visible >>>> damage. But both front wheels were pointed right with the wheel >>>> centered, and the total toe was close to specs. I am assuming that the >>>> rack is damaged, but I cannot remember any conclusive test for it. I >>>> didn't see the toe on turns reading, and I'm not sure if that reading >>>> will answer my question. I also assume that the turning radius will be >>>> different between right and left turns, but I don't have a good way to >>>> measure that either. Any suggestions on proving that the cause is the >>>> steering rack? As a note, the steering wheel was not that far off. The >>>> toe on each side was about 2 degrees off - one in and one out. >>>> >>>> Finally, would you worry about this, or just shrug it off if the >>>> dealer refuses to replace the rack? They are replacing the wheel, and >>>> they did the alignment, but I cannot prove that it happened there. >>> >>> What was it going in for originally? >>> It takes some serious force to damage a rack. I would expect telltale >>> marks at the mounts if it shifted as well as physical damage that should >>> be readily visible. Rim/tire damage as well as steering knuckle damage >>> on one side. Possibly lower A-arm damage as well. Being a dealer they >>> may have simply removed the damaged parts, replaced them and did the >>> alignment with the wheel slightly off. Hard to say. >>> >>> The problem then becomes proving it. For that you would need to prove >>> that the various fasteners were removed/replaced, that the parts were >>> different and that it didn't enter the shop that way. Or get them to >>> admit to causing it. >>> >>> What to do is a big item. Possibly go over the dealer to the companies >>> customer satisfaction people. They may tell the dealer to replace the >>> rack as well. >> >> The only physical damage I saw was the wheel, and even it isn't all >> that bad - just a couple of scrapes, and it's not bent. The camber and >> caster were still right on the money. They have cameras there, and I >> watched the footage with the service manager. Whatever happened was >> not on camera, so it is still my word against theirs, but it's also >> obvious they didn't do any sort of damage repair to the car. All it >> was in for was a window regulator, so no one had any reason to drive >> it. I'm assuming the trim tech took it to get lunch, smacked a curb or >> something, looked the car over and didn't see any damage, so he >> shrugged it off. I didn't see any damage either at first. There is >> scraping at the very bottom of the fascia, but nowhere else. I think >> he slid - understeered - into something, the front of the wheel hit >> and pushed both front wheels to the right. The only damage on the >> wheel is two scrapes 180 degrees apart, and only on the outside of the >> wheel. Nothing on the inside, and nothing obvious on the tire. It's >> really pretty strange. To be honest, I think he might have twisted the >> stub shaft on the rack. I can't think of anything else. > >What make, year model? I'll see if there's anything that might flex or >give if it slid and he held the wheel. I know some of the small Fords >had an intermediate shaft joint that would twist if they were hit. Yep, it could be anywhere between the steering wheel and the front wheels. I wish there were a way to make a conclusive check on that sort of thing, but it's also good to be reminded that it's not necessarily the rack. I don't think I'll lose any sleep over a slightly twisted shaft anywhere in the system. I'll send the car info in an email - there are reasons I prefer to keep private info off of usenet. Troubles on another group... |
#9
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Ping Steve W.
Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Sun, 28 May 2017 01:42:32 -0400, "Steve W." > > wrote: > >> Bill Vanek wrote: >>> On Thu, 25 May 2017 08:22:03 -0400, "Steve W." > >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Bill Vanek wrote: >>>>> I bought a new car, took it to the dealer with less than 100 miles on >>>>> it, and got the car back with the steering wheel off center. Someone >>>>> hit something. They let me look under the car, and at the initial >>>>> alignment readings. Thrust angle is zero, and I didn't see any visible >>>>> damage. But both front wheels were pointed right with the wheel >>>>> centered, and the total toe was close to specs. I am assuming that the >>>>> rack is damaged, but I cannot remember any conclusive test for it. I >>>>> didn't see the toe on turns reading, and I'm not sure if that reading >>>>> will answer my question. I also assume that the turning radius will be >>>>> different between right and left turns, but I don't have a good way to >>>>> measure that either. Any suggestions on proving that the cause is the >>>>> steering rack? As a note, the steering wheel was not that far off. The >>>>> toe on each side was about 2 degrees off - one in and one out. >>>>> >>>>> Finally, would you worry about this, or just shrug it off if the >>>>> dealer refuses to replace the rack? They are replacing the wheel, and >>>>> they did the alignment, but I cannot prove that it happened there. >>>> What was it going in for originally? >>>> It takes some serious force to damage a rack. I would expect telltale >>>> marks at the mounts if it shifted as well as physical damage that should >>>> be readily visible. Rim/tire damage as well as steering knuckle damage >>>> on one side. Possibly lower A-arm damage as well. Being a dealer they >>>> may have simply removed the damaged parts, replaced them and did the >>>> alignment with the wheel slightly off. Hard to say. >>>> >>>> The problem then becomes proving it. For that you would need to prove >>>> that the various fasteners were removed/replaced, that the parts were >>>> different and that it didn't enter the shop that way. Or get them to >>>> admit to causing it. >>>> >>>> What to do is a big item. Possibly go over the dealer to the companies >>>> customer satisfaction people. They may tell the dealer to replace the >>>> rack as well. >>> The only physical damage I saw was the wheel, and even it isn't all >>> that bad - just a couple of scrapes, and it's not bent. The camber and >>> caster were still right on the money. They have cameras there, and I >>> watched the footage with the service manager. Whatever happened was >>> not on camera, so it is still my word against theirs, but it's also >>> obvious they didn't do any sort of damage repair to the car. All it >>> was in for was a window regulator, so no one had any reason to drive >>> it. I'm assuming the trim tech took it to get lunch, smacked a curb or >>> something, looked the car over and didn't see any damage, so he >>> shrugged it off. I didn't see any damage either at first. There is >>> scraping at the very bottom of the fascia, but nowhere else. I think >>> he slid - understeered - into something, the front of the wheel hit >>> and pushed both front wheels to the right. The only damage on the >>> wheel is two scrapes 180 degrees apart, and only on the outside of the >>> wheel. Nothing on the inside, and nothing obvious on the tire. It's >>> really pretty strange. To be honest, I think he might have twisted the >>> stub shaft on the rack. I can't think of anything else. >> What make, year model? I'll see if there's anything that might flex or >> give if it slid and he held the wheel. I know some of the small Fords >> had an intermediate shaft joint that would twist if they were hit. > > Yep, it could be anywhere between the steering wheel and the front > wheels. I wish there were a way to make a conclusive check on that > sort of thing, but it's also good to be reminded that it's not > necessarily the rack. I don't think I'll lose any sleep over a > slightly twisted shaft anywhere in the system. I'll send the car info > in an email - there are reasons I prefer to keep private info off of > usenet. Troubles on another group... Yeah, without tearing the entire thing apart and having the specs for each part it could be a long process... Got the mail and replied. Feel free to use that any time. -- Steve W. |
#10
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Ping Steve W.
On Tue, 30 May 2017 21:58:04 -0400, "Steve W." >
wrote: >Bill Vanek wrote: >> On Sun, 28 May 2017 01:42:32 -0400, "Steve W." > >> wrote: >> >>> Bill Vanek wrote: >>>> On Thu, 25 May 2017 08:22:03 -0400, "Steve W." > >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Bill Vanek wrote: >>>>>> I bought a new car, took it to the dealer with less than 100 miles on >>>>>> it, and got the car back with the steering wheel off center. Someone >>>>>> hit something. They let me look under the car, and at the initial >>>>>> alignment readings. Thrust angle is zero, and I didn't see any visible >>>>>> damage. But both front wheels were pointed right with the wheel >>>>>> centered, and the total toe was close to specs. I am assuming that the >>>>>> rack is damaged, but I cannot remember any conclusive test for it. I >>>>>> didn't see the toe on turns reading, and I'm not sure if that reading >>>>>> will answer my question. I also assume that the turning radius will be >>>>>> different between right and left turns, but I don't have a good way to >>>>>> measure that either. Any suggestions on proving that the cause is the >>>>>> steering rack? As a note, the steering wheel was not that far off. The >>>>>> toe on each side was about 2 degrees off - one in and one out. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally, would you worry about this, or just shrug it off if the >>>>>> dealer refuses to replace the rack? They are replacing the wheel, and >>>>>> they did the alignment, but I cannot prove that it happened there. >>>>> What was it going in for originally? >>>>> It takes some serious force to damage a rack. I would expect telltale >>>>> marks at the mounts if it shifted as well as physical damage that should >>>>> be readily visible. Rim/tire damage as well as steering knuckle damage >>>>> on one side. Possibly lower A-arm damage as well. Being a dealer they >>>>> may have simply removed the damaged parts, replaced them and did the >>>>> alignment with the wheel slightly off. Hard to say. >>>>> >>>>> The problem then becomes proving it. For that you would need to prove >>>>> that the various fasteners were removed/replaced, that the parts were >>>>> different and that it didn't enter the shop that way. Or get them to >>>>> admit to causing it. >>>>> >>>>> What to do is a big item. Possibly go over the dealer to the companies >>>>> customer satisfaction people. They may tell the dealer to replace the >>>>> rack as well. >>>> The only physical damage I saw was the wheel, and even it isn't all >>>> that bad - just a couple of scrapes, and it's not bent. The camber and >>>> caster were still right on the money. They have cameras there, and I >>>> watched the footage with the service manager. Whatever happened was >>>> not on camera, so it is still my word against theirs, but it's also >>>> obvious they didn't do any sort of damage repair to the car. All it >>>> was in for was a window regulator, so no one had any reason to drive >>>> it. I'm assuming the trim tech took it to get lunch, smacked a curb or >>>> something, looked the car over and didn't see any damage, so he >>>> shrugged it off. I didn't see any damage either at first. There is >>>> scraping at the very bottom of the fascia, but nowhere else. I think >>>> he slid - understeered - into something, the front of the wheel hit >>>> and pushed both front wheels to the right. The only damage on the >>>> wheel is two scrapes 180 degrees apart, and only on the outside of the >>>> wheel. Nothing on the inside, and nothing obvious on the tire. It's >>>> really pretty strange. To be honest, I think he might have twisted the >>>> stub shaft on the rack. I can't think of anything else. >>> What make, year model? I'll see if there's anything that might flex or >>> give if it slid and he held the wheel. I know some of the small Fords >>> had an intermediate shaft joint that would twist if they were hit. >> >> Yep, it could be anywhere between the steering wheel and the front >> wheels. I wish there were a way to make a conclusive check on that >> sort of thing, but it's also good to be reminded that it's not >> necessarily the rack. I don't think I'll lose any sleep over a >> slightly twisted shaft anywhere in the system. I'll send the car info >> in an email - there are reasons I prefer to keep private info off of >> usenet. Troubles on another group... > >Yeah, without tearing the entire thing apart and having the specs for >each part it could be a long process... > >Got the mail and replied. Feel free to use that any time. Got your email, and I appreciate it. I will probably do what you would do, get the wheel replaced (they already aligned it), and watch for any future problems. |
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