Honda's new oil change interval

On Aug 30, 11:50*am, SMS > wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > Just as people have decided to ignore the maintenance minder for oil
> > changes and do it on their own schedule, they're free to do so for the
> > filter, too.
>
> The fact is that the filter is just fine for two oil changes. This used
> to be the norm back in the olden days of 3000 mile oil changes

and those canister oil filters were HUGE. At least twice the size of
today's normal oil filter, probably 3 times the size of a Honda
filter. Sure, the filtering media was kinda like my furnace filter but
that was then.

, when a
> filter cost was much higher than the cost of the oil, and many more
> people did their own oil changes. An older filter won't let any more
> dirt through, but the flow rate will be very slightly reduced.

If the engine was clean to begin with...

>
> I think most people change the filter at every oil change just because
> the cost of doing so is so low, but it's not necessary and provides no
> benefit. There's also the issue that the filter is holding some dirty
> oil, but it's a lot less these days with the small filters than it was
> back in the days of the huge filters.

the oil circulating thru the filter isn't any more dirty than the oil
circulating thru the engine. Oil filter media traps what dirt it can,
the rest circulates.

A huge filter with the same media as a small filter will provide
better flow over time (smaller filter gets clogged faster) if
everything else is similar. Many quality after market filters are
larger than OEM.

>
> Just be sure to use genuine Honda filters, and not an after-market
> filter, since the construction quality of most after-market filters is
> abysmal (especially the orange ones, but I won't name names). My
> mechanic *keeps a stock of Honda filters even though he pays 3x the
> price of the jobber filters ($3 versus $1).

the after-market is not only Fram, there's lots of quality stuff
available. You are kidding yourself about Honda oil filter quality.

>
> When Honda first started using 5W20 oil he couldn't get it from his oil
> distributor so he was buying it from the dealer, which was very
> expensive, even at the discounted price that they sell parts to
> independent garages. The parts guy at the Honda dealer told him that the
> dealer's service department didn't even use the 5W20, they used 5W30
> because it was cheaper. The independent shops have to be careful about
> not using the wrong oil since if there's an engine problem down the road
> they could have customers blaming them based on using the wrong oil

if you think 5W20 comes out of an engine after 7500 miles still
meeting 5W20 specs, you should spend a little time reading oil
analysis reports at Bobistheoilguy.com 5W20 and 5W30 may be
indistinguishable.

has anyone heard of a warranty claim being denied due to 5W30 use
instead of 5W20? all the oil related warranty issues I'm aware of have
been over oil change interval or owner neglect (oil level).

ACAR > wrote in news:003ac868-e498-4d76-8d56-
:

> On Aug 30, 11:50*am, SMS > wrote:
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

>
>>
>> Just be sure to use genuine Honda filters, and not an after-market
>> filter, since the construction quality of most after-market filters is
>> abysmal (especially the orange ones, but I won't name names). My
>> mechanic *keeps a stock of Honda filters even though he pays 3x the
>> price of the jobber filters ($3 versus $1).
>
> the after-market is not only Fram, there's lots of quality stuff
> available. You are kidding yourself about Honda oil filter quality.



And you're not? Evidence, please.

And I don't mean the sort of evidence that results from some Texas Prelude
idiot named Todd cutting filters open and passing judgement based on the
visual appeal of the entrails he finds therein.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

ACAR wrote:
> On Aug 30, 11:50�am, SMS > wrote:
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> Just as people have decided to ignore the maintenance minder for oil
>>> changes and do it on their own schedule, they're free to do so for the
>>> filter, too.
>> The fact is that the filter is just fine for two oil changes. This used
>> to be the norm back in the olden days of 3000 mile oil changes
>
> and those canister oil filters were HUGE. At least twice the size of
> today's normal oil filter, probably 3 times the size of a Honda
> filter. Sure, the filtering media was kinda like my furnace filter but
> that was then.

physical size doesn't mean much. more important is the filter medium
quality and its surface area.



>
> , when a
>> filter cost was much higher than the cost of the oil, and many more
>> people did their own oil changes. An older filter won't let any more
>> dirt through, but the flow rate will be very slightly reduced.
>
> If the engine was clean to begin with...

that doesn't mean much.




>
>> I think most people change the filter at every oil change just because
>> the cost of doing so is so low, but it's not necessary and provides no
>> benefit. There's also the issue that the filter is holding some dirty
>> oil, but it's a lot less these days with the small filters than it was
>> back in the days of the huge filters.
>
> the oil circulating thru the filter isn't any more dirty than the oil
> circulating thru the engine. Oil filter media traps what dirt it can,
> the rest circulates.

that's kinda sorta true, but over simplifies and somewhat
mischaracterizes the truth. yes, "the rest circulates", but those
particles that get through a healthy filter are too small to be of
consequence.


>
> A huge filter with the same media as a small filter will provide
> better flow over time

untrue. what matters is the filter medium area. and even that is not
as important as the medium quality. a large can with a small medium
area and low medium quality is going to be worse than a small can with
the opposite internals.


> (smaller filter gets clogged faster) if
> everything else is similar.

depends on medium area and quality.



> Many quality after market filters are
> larger than OEM.

for a honda? no way.


>
>> Just be sure to use genuine Honda filters, and not an after-market
>> filter, since the construction quality of most after-market filters is
>> abysmal (especially the orange ones, but I won't name names). My
>> mechanic �keeps a stock of Honda filters even though he pays 3x the
>> price of the jobber filters ($3 versus $1).
>
> the after-market is not only Fram, there's lots of quality stuff
> available. You are kidding yourself about Honda oil filter quality.

on that we agree. every honda filter i've used in years has had crummy
anti-drainback performance - it's almost totally ineffective.



>
>> When Honda first started using 5W20 oil he couldn't get it from his oil
>> distributor so he was buying it from the dealer, which was very
>> expensive, even at the discounted price that they sell parts to
>> independent garages. The parts guy at the Honda dealer told him that the
>> dealer's service department didn't even use the 5W20, they used 5W30
>> because it was cheaper. The independent shops have to be careful about
>> not using the wrong oil since if there's an engine problem down the road
>> they could have customers blaming them based on using the wrong oil
>
> if you think 5W20 comes out of an engine after 7500 miles still
> meeting 5W20 specs, you should spend a little time reading oil
> analysis reports at Bobistheoilguy.com 5W20 and 5W30 may be
> indistinguishable.

my last oil analysis had 5w-30 coming out as 5w-30 after 12k miles...


>
> has anyone heard of a warranty claim being denied due to 5W30 use
> instead of 5W20? all the oil related warranty issues I'm aware of have
> been over oil change interval or owner neglect (oil level).