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Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 18th 05, 07:06 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

David E. Powell wrote:

> Hi there.
>
> I have been looking at the new Honda Civic, it's pretty sweet, and the
> welds and everything are as nice as anything I have ever seen. I just
> have a question about the "Drive by wire" system that they are
> supposed to have.
>
> What happens if the Engine dies on you? In my current car, my timing
> chip went once and the engine went out. I had enough steering control
> left, even without power steering, to pull my car over before it came
> to a stop. If the drive by wire system has no "real" or active
> connection, how can it work if the engine or electronics quit on you?
> Are there any backups built into the system in case any of that stuff
> happens? And what if your battery dies and you need to push the car?
> Can you turn the steering wheel to adjust your wheels when you push
> the car?
>




The "drive by wire" refers to throttle butterfly control, not the
steering.

The usual connection between throttle and accelerator pedal is
accomplished with a cable firmly affixed between the two. In the new
"drive by wire" setup, the computer determines how to operate the
throttle butterfly depending on several factors, only one of which is
your foot.

If your car dies, it will feel no different from what you're used to.
Luckily, the steering still consists of solid metal connections.
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  #12  
Old November 18th 05, 07:08 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

the fly wrote:

<snip>


>
> ".........more importantly than that, you've got to have the
> insight and wisdom to know when something has been developed to the
> point where further development amounts to pointless engineering
> masturbation.



<snip>


"Drive by wire" is there for emissions control and for no other reason.
Blame the regulatory authorities.
  #13  
Old November 18th 05, 07:08 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 17:03:42 GMT "Elle" > wrote:

> There is, therefore,
> no valid
> > reason for steer-by-wire."

>
> This reminds me of Bill Gates comment a few decades ago that
> no one should ever need more than 64k of RAM on his/her
> computer.


That quote from Billy-Bob has nothing to do with advances
in design utilizing differing technologies. That only has
to do with capacity - he was basing his opinion because
of the current state of capacity. The technology hasnt
changed in computers, but the capacity of devices has,
such as faster CPUs (with increasing cache size), higher-
capacity drives, more RAM, and so on.

Higher capacity is required because of bloated operating
systems and the bloated software written by lazy programmers.

The basic design of the computer is still the same: to
move 0's and 1's around the bus to peripherals, all
controlled by various chipsets.

--
remove MYSHOES to email
  #14  
Old November 18th 05, 07:09 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

Theodrake wrote:

<snip>


>
> Only drive by wire tech I can find on the Honda is a Throttle System.
> I would hope that if there is a loss of power that the system
> supplies a small throttle input until you pull off the road and shut
> the car down???




I am slightly puzzled why everyone seems to assume "drive by wire" has
anything at all to do with the steering.

  #15  
Old November 18th 05, 07:43 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?


"Elle" > wrote in message
.net...

> What you quote is incredibly short-sighted. It demonstrates
> a lack of willingness to do any kind of investigation of why
> fly-by-wire was considered. In short, these are the words
> not of an engineer, scientist, or technical person but a
> ninny, and a ninny tired of having more demanded of him for
> his labors, at that.
>
> He's happy with the status quo. Others are not. He should
> get out of the business or certainly never enter it.


We have been served up a lot of dumb ideas in the past...ideas
which were interesting, but not worth the cost and the risk.

I am sure we will continue to make firm advancements in
transportation science. If Honda wants to spend the money
to offer a solution to a problem that does not exist, go for it.



  #16  
Old November 18th 05, 07:52 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

Hugo Schmeisser wrote:
>
> Theodrake wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> > Only drive by wire tech I can find on the Honda is a Throttle System.
> > I would hope that if there is a loss of power that the system
> > supplies a small throttle input until you pull off the road and shut
> > the car down???

>
> I am slightly puzzled why everyone seems to assume "drive by wire" has
> anything at all to do with the steering.



That's because of the car shows on TV. They show the prototype drive by
wire vehicles as basic body modules you can just plug into one
platform. You know, drive the sports body for the week and drop the SUV
body on for the weekend type trip...

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Aug./05 http://www.imagestation.com/album/in...?id=2120343242
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)
  #17  
Old November 18th 05, 07:56 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?


"Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
...

> Which is why boats still have points.


Well the newest 4 stroke outboard I bought does not have points. But then
neither did the two stroke it replaced. And if you want reliability in a
boat, a diesel seems like the way to go.

Ed


  #18  
Old November 18th 05, 08:05 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?

I think you are operating under the mistaken impression that the "drive by
wire" system is referring to the steering gear. It does not. The only part
that is "drive by wire" is the throttle. Instead of having a conventional
linkage or cable between the accelerator pedal and the throttle plate in the
intake, the accelerator pedal is connected to a rheostat which feeds
positional information to the car's engine management computer. The computer
then uses this information to open or close the throttle based on all the
inputs. Toyota, Ford, GM, BMW, and others have been using such systems for
several years in an effort to improve engine performance, reduce emission,
and increase fuel economy. I see some complaints from Toyota owners about
lagging response in their fly by wire systems. I have a Ford with a fly by
wire system and did not even realize it until I looked through the shop
manual.

Failure of the fly by wire throttle system is not more dangerous, or likely,
than the failure of a traditional throttle cable (I've had two of those fail
in my life). The most likely failure mode is the engine dropping back to
idle. I feel certain that you'll be able to control the car if this happens.

See
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/...me=Civic+Sedan

Regards,

Ed White

"David E. Powell" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi there.
>
> I have been looking at the new Honda Civic, it's pretty sweet, and the
> welds and everything are as nice as anything I have ever seen. I just
> have a question about the "Drive by wire" system that they are supposed
> to have.
>
> What happens if the Engine dies on you? In my current car, my timing
> chip went once and the engine went out. I had enough steering control
> left, even without power steering, to pull my car over before it came
> to a stop. If the drive by wire system has no "real" or active
> connection, how can it work if the engine or electronics quit on you?
> Are there any backups built into the system in case any of that stuff
> happens? And what if your battery dies and you need to push the car?
> Can you turn the steering wheel to adjust your wheels when you push the
> car?
>
> Much thanks, sorry to bother.
>
> David
>



  #19  
Old November 18th 05, 08:08 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?


"the fly" > wrote in message
...

> "The hydraulic brake system is a textbook model of development
> to perfection. So was the hydromechanical automatic transmission --
> computerisation of the automatic transmission has taken away
> three-for-one in durability, dependability and cost of repair what
> little it has given us. We know how to make steering systems that work
> and essentially never give trouble. There is, therefore, no valid
> reason for steer-by-wire."


And what does this have to do with "drive by wire" throttle systems? The
Civic does not have a steer by wire system.

On the other hand, I do own two farm tractors that have drive by hydraulic
systems. They have no mechanical link between the steering wheel and the
front wheels. It is all handled by hydraulics. I had a line blow once and
had to steer off the road with the brakes.....

Ed


  #20  
Old November 18th 05, 08:11 PM posted to alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,rec.autos.tech
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Default Honda "Drive by Wire" question... what if the power goes out?


"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
>I have always gotten a laugh out of such a foolish system.
>
> The way I understand it, basically if the power fails when you are at
> speed, you crash, just like on an airplane. I guess you could also put
> your head between your legs and kiss your ass good-bye like they do on
> planes too... ;-)


The Civic drive by wire system is just for the throttle. If it fails, you'll
just coast to a stop. You'll be able to steer just like most other cars can
when the engine dies.

Ed


 




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