Auto Wipers

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:12:07 +0100, Zathras
> wrote:

>>I think that "market price" may have more to do with the price of
>>engine oil in the YooKay than you realise.
>
>I made my point poorly. I meant that the long-life special oils are
>stupidly expensive compared to the lesser oils of previous generations
>that would have worked fine in a car of the type I now have. I would
>be surprised if a BMW Longlife 04 oil was not among the more expensive
>oils to be found in any market place.

Sorry, but those pesky "market forces" have just bitten you in the
arse again, because my BMW dealer sells it for around $8/quart, not
much more than the cost of Mobil 1 0W-40, which is also LL04.

On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:36:16 +0100, "David Skelton"
> wrote:

>
>"Zathras" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:58:20 +0100, "David Skelton"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>> "David Skelton" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday, we went for a 170 mile trip in our 2009 335d SE. Odometer now up to 1648
>>>>> miles. Will do an oil + filter change next week.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Because the oil will be quite contaminated.
>>
>> Even if it was, it's designed to cope. It's one of the reasons engine
>> oil is stupidly expensive compared to a few years ago.
>
>Fully synthetic engine oil has always been stupidly expensive, more so in the 1980's than
>now.

Yes but it wasn't mainstream then.

>>>The mating of the rings to cylinder wall would have been the worst they could be,
>>>resulting in a relatively large volume of blow-by gases, amongst other cr@p...
>>
>> Yes but it's still tiny.
>
>Not necessarily. In a bigger engine with higher cylinder pressure, the blow by can be
>significant at higher revs.

It simply cannot be 'significant' though. If it were, engines on the
extended oil change plans would be failing. There are loads of 320d
and 520d fleet cars in the UK and they won't be on short oil changes
or gently driven or on low mileage.

>>>There is also a lot of debris from the original casting and the asperities from
>>>break-in
>>>floating around in the oil.
>>
>> Not these days.. Part of the reason long life oils do what they say on
>> the tin is because engines are much better built and designed to
>> vastly better tolerances than 20 years ago.
>
>Yes, engines are better, but so is fuel too. Two weeks ago, I did an oil change on our
>62,000 mile Ford Focus, and the dirt and metal particles left on the bottom of the tray
>was not encouraging, considering the car has only done 3,000 miles (in 12 months) on that
>oil.

I wouldn't touch a car that only did 3000 miles per year because I'd
be thinking there was a good chance of high water content in acidic
oil.

>I think you would be surprised what you would get out if you were to flush and reverse
>flush the cooling system and oil passages.
>I have, but not yet on this 335d.

I've never had to do that on any car I've owned/driven in the last 30
years. Why have you needed to do it?

>>>Some say that it will all be caught by the oil filter, but I have found this not to be
>>>the complete truth. Sometimes, the oil pressure relief valve may open when the oil is
>>>cold at higher revs, bypassing the oil filter. Another good reason not to thrash the
>>>engine from cold.
>>>
>>>Also, I know it is not 'due' a change, (but this may be due to BMW trying to keep the
>>>company / fleet buyers happy with a reduced service regime, reducing costs) until 2
>>>years
>>>or goodness knows how many miles have been traversed, but I am not happy running oil in
>>>an engine for that long from new.
>>>
>>>At the beginning of the Nineties,
>>
>> But that's an immediate problem because *so* much has changed in the
>> last 20 years. For a start, common-rail diesel became the standard and
>> this was a huge step forward in terms of improving the quality and
>> control of the burn in diesel engines.
>
>A particular manufacturer is on their fourth generation common rail injection system.
>Advances are being made all the time. But still, we need a DPF to keep emissions down as
>not enough of the fuel is burnt.

I'd challenge the use of the word 'need' there. A good common rail
diesel (of any vintage) that isn't too high powered shouldn't smoke
very much at all. Unfortunately, there's a crowd who insist 'diesels
are smoky' due to cars/lorries/busses from a while back and
politicians have got involved and..

>>>You pays your money, and you make your choice.
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>>>The oil in the engine absolutely stinks, is filthy black and I am changing it with the
>>>oil filter.
>>
>> My experience of diesel oil changes over the last 10 years is that the
>> oil is always black within a few miles of a fresh change. It's
>> designed to carry black soot.
>
>Yes it is designed to carry soot. But, low SAPS oils have a lower TBN than I would like
>to see in a diesel oil. Not enough to last up to 29,000 miles in a new engine.

At this point, it's your desires against BMWs claims.

20 years ago, I knew a chap that drove his Fiat for 80,000 miles
without an oil change. If junk like that could survive such extreme
oil abuse (rust eventually killed that car) then I could *believe* a
modern long life oil in a modern engine doing 30,000 miles without
harm as long as it was done with long distance, oil-friendly driving.

>The method of changing the oil is key to how quickly the fresh oil turns black. When I
>last did an oil change on a BMW diesel, one litre of old oil was left in the sump, even
>thought the oil was at max on the dipstick. I had to pour in fresh to flush out the old,
>which gave a cleaner, and more complete oil change. You will not see a dealership do
>that, but they will still charge you for a full fill of fresh oil, even though they have
>filled the engine 'short' so to speak. Once the oil stops draining from the sump plug,
>they re-install it. Leaving up to a litre of old oil inside.
>Before starting the change, I like to get the oil hot, then leave it overnight to fully
>drain back to the sump. Not starting the engine until fresh oil is in place.
>
>Some use vacuum to suck the old oil out. If the suction tube can be made to get to the
>bottom most part of the sump, I suppose that could be better. But I have not tried it.
>
>I'm lucky, I have the time to do it as I like.

I used to do oil changes on my cars but I didn't find it an
interesting or satisfying job so now I pay servants to do it for me.
Nevertheless, you do sound a bit paranoid on the whole issue. How long
are you planning to keep the 335d? I have a suspicion it won't be long
enough to see any benefit from your oil change regime.

--
Z

In article >,
Zathras > wrote:
> I used to do oil changes on my cars but I didn't find it an
> interesting or satisfying job so now I pay servants to do it for me.
> Nevertheless, you do sound a bit paranoid on the whole issue. How long
> are you planning to keep the 335d? I have a suspicion it won't be long
> enough to see any benefit from your oil change regime.

That is likely true for 99% of those who are paranoid about oil changing.
The vast majority who buy new cars change them regularly - and well before
they are worn out in any way.

--
*Half the people in the world are below average.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article >,
Zathras > wrote:
> >The race engine is not expected to last that long, whereas BMW would
> >not like it if their engines had to replaced or over-hauled every
> >year, or during the warranty period. So they give advice on how to
> >run-in their engines.

> Hmmm..remember Nikasil?

BMW wouldn't have used Nikasil if they'd known it would cause problems
with some petrol. And they weren't unique in being caught out by this.

--
*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article >,
Dave Plowman (News) > wrote:
>In article >,
> Zathras > wrote:
>> I used to do oil changes on my cars but I didn't find it an
>> interesting or satisfying job so now I pay servants to do it for me.
>> Nevertheless, you do sound a bit paranoid on the whole issue. How long
>> are you planning to keep the 335d? I have a suspicion it won't be long
>> enough to see any benefit from your oil change regime.
>
>That is likely true for 99% of those who are paranoid about oil changing.
>The vast majority who buy new cars change them regularly - and well before
>they are worn out in any way.

Still, when you sell a car to someone else, it's good to know that you are
handing them over something that will treat them well rather than something
with hidden problems due to your lack of maintenance.

It's just polite to treat machinery well.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Dean Dark" > wrote in
> On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:12:07 +0100, Zathras wrote:
>
>>>I think that "market price" may have more to do with the price of
>>>engine oil in the YooKay than you realise.
>>
>>I made my point poorly. I meant that the long-life special oils are
>>stupidly expensive compared to the lesser oils of previous generations
>>that would have worked fine in a car of the type I now have. I would
>>be surprised if a BMW Longlife 04 oil was not among the more expensive
>>oils to be found in any market place.
>
> Sorry, but those pesky "market forces" have just bitten you in the
> arse again, because my BMW dealer sells it for around $8/quart, not
> much more than the cost of Mobil 1 0W-40, which is also LL04.

No, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 & 5W-40 is LL04. Mobil 1 0W-40 is LL01.
Mobil 1 0W-40 is not a low-ash (super) oil necessary for the diesel engines.

FloydR

"Zathras" > wrote
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:36:16 +0100, "David Skelton"
> > wrote:

>>A particular manufacturer is on their fourth generation common rail
>>injection system.
>>Advances are being made all the time. But still, we need a DPF to keep
>>emissions down as
>>not enough of the fuel is burnt.
>
> I'd challenge the use of the word 'need' there. A good common rail
> diesel (of any vintage) that isn't too high powered shouldn't smoke
> very much at all. Unfortunately, there's a crowd who insist 'diesels
> are smoky' due to cars/lorries/busses from a while back and
> politicians have got involved and..

"Need" is indeed needed. The filter gets the small particles that you can't
see. PM10 means "Particulate Matter smaller than 10 microns". Just because
your eyes can't see them doesn't mean they don't exist and are dangerous.

FloydR

In article >,
Scott Dorsey > wrote:
> >That is likely true for 99% of those who are paranoid about oil
> >changing. The vast majority who buy new cars change them regularly -
> >and well before they are worn out in any way.

> Still, when you sell a car to someone else, it's good to know that you
> are handing them over something that will treat them well rather than
> something with hidden problems due to your lack of maintenance.

I wasn't suggesting maintenance should be neglected - quite the reverse.
That's a different matter from changing oil etc too frequently.

--
*Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 09:12:27 -0700, "Floyd Rogers"
> wrote:

>No, Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 & 5W-40 is LL04. Mobil 1 0W-40 is LL01.
>Mobil 1 0W-40 is not a low-ash (super) oil necessary for the diesel engines.

I stand corrected on that.

My point about "market pricing," and the huge cost difference between
the US & the UK for these oils remains though.

> I made my point poorly. I meant that the long-life special oils are
> stupidly expensive compared to the lesser oils of previous generations
> that would have worked fine in a car of the type I now have. I would
> be surprised if a BMW Longlife 04 oil was not among the more expensive
> oils to be found in any market place.
>
> --
> Z

Long-life special oils are not comparable to lesser oils of previous generations, are
they ??

IIRC, you have a recent 325d which, if it has a DPF, *must* use low SAPS oil. The
previous generations of oil would not be correct.
I think you will find that VW 507.00 is quite expensive too.

Best wishes

David Skelton



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