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C5 Belt Squeak



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 6th 06, 08:45 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
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Default C5 Belt Squeak

I have a 2000 C5 w/ about 50k. I read some posts here and elsewhere about a
persistent "squeak, squeak squeak" under the hood. One fellow, Steve, said
it was the crank pulley/harmonic balancer being wobbley. I checked it out,
stopped by the dealer, and wanted to share what I found.

All C5 harmonic balancers are wobbley. It probably isn't that -- which is a
good thing because out of warranty repair is $650.

Check the AC belt -- that's what it was in my case. I'm in the process of
getting a new "gatorback" belt (cross groved). It could also be the main
serpentine belt or even the tensioner. To find the difference, put a socket
on the tensioner belt when the engine is running (tighten) -- be careful --
and see if the extra tension causes the noise to go away. If not, remove
the AC belt (cut it) and start the engine. If the sound is gone, you know
that was the cause. (It is time to replace the belt anyway - my opinion).

Hope that helps the next guy.

Dave


Ads
  #2  
Old February 9th 06, 12:18 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
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Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides the
belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for fine
black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.

Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven accessories
thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
alternator, power steering, etc.

-Stan

"Dave" > wrote in message
. ..
>I have a 2000 C5 w/ about 50k. I read some posts here and elsewhere about
>a persistent "squeak, squeak squeak" under the hood. One fellow, Steve,
>said it was the crank pulley/harmonic balancer being wobbley. I checked it
>out, stopped by the dealer, and wanted to share what I found.
>
> All C5 harmonic balancers are wobbley. It probably isn't that -- which is
> a good thing because out of warranty repair is $650.
>
> Check the AC belt -- that's what it was in my case. I'm in the process of
> getting a new "gatorback" belt (cross groved). It could also be the main
> serpentine belt or even the tensioner. To find the difference, put a
> socket on the tensioner belt when the engine is running (tighten) -- be
> careful -- and see if the extra tension causes the noise to go away. If
> not, remove the AC belt (cut it) and start the engine. If the sound is
> gone, you know that was the cause. (It is time to replace the belt
> anyway - my opinion).
>
> Hope that helps the next guy.
>
> Dave
>



  #3  
Old February 9th 06, 05:45 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:18:57 -0500, "sbright" >
wrote:

>I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides the
>belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for fine
>black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.
>
>Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven accessories
>thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
>this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
>wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
>alternator, power steering, etc.
>
>-Stan
>


>>

>

there have been some attemenpts made to get away from the belt, Lexus
with there hydraulic cooling fan, most aircraft engines have a gear
drive for the vacum pump and other things. as long as the belts are
cheap we are going to have them for a long time.

But as you know Stan, the real problem is not the belt, but rather a
misalignment and not a wide enough belt.

Ps did you have any belt sllipage problems with your procharger?
and which model are you running?
  #4  
Old February 9th 06, 07:00 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

sbright wrote:
> I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides the
> belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for fine
> black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven accessories
> thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
> this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
> wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
> alternator, power steering, etc.
>
> -Stan

Dave, thanks for the info--I'll not panic when looking at the balancer.

I tend to agree with Stan though. Sticking a wrench or breaker bar down
there scares me too. I'm not as steady handed as I once was. Stan, you
sound like you've been influenced by either the Swiss or the Krauts,
with a need for very precise gears.

Back in the '70s I was one of the technical monitors on a NavAir project
(your tax dollars at work) that compared speed reduction and drive
devices using belts, gears, worms, harmonic drives and a couple of
electric schemes. I was the guy with clean hands who peeked in on the
project for 2 years, then wrote the one-page exec summary and walked out
the door. When all (dollars, weight, reliability, bulk, power losses,
support, restoration/repair and some other trivia) was considered, belts
came off very well. Belt losses are more than the typical 1%
per-gear-in-mesh at most practical ratios but when total support
(weight, lube overhead, shielding from dirt, ease of inspection,
prediction of failure, etc.) comes into play, the belt usually wins.
Major exception was at very high belt velocities where belts lift from
the pulleys and/or get overheated. I think we're going to be stuck with
belts for a lot of years to come. That said, in the last 30 years there
have been some great advances in molded plastic gears so the landscape
might change.

I'm wondering what the belt velocities in the C5 are in comparison to
other serpentine installations. Someday, I'll stick a ruler down there
and compare it to the C4 and Mama's land barge--neither of those seem to
have serpentine problems.

First owner replaced the belt in my C5 about 8 months ago--don't know
why. Looks as though it lasted about 36 months and 20K miles.) That's
about 1/2 what I got out of the first belt in my C4 (didn't fail or
squeak but looked awful -- old age with lots of small chunks missing).
No squeaks in the C5 yet; but, when I hear a squeak, my first ploy will
be a gentle rub with a chunk of paraffin --that used to work well with
vee belts lots of years ago. (Then when the slippage occurs, I can get
out the solvent and start cleaning pulleys <{:-0 ). One more
opportunity for a self-inflicted wound!

Oh yeah, and it would be well to use Dad's "sonic agulominator" (golf
club shaft).

Outta here -- gotta go make a buck.
--
…PJ
’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe

>
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> I have a 2000 C5 w/ about 50k. I read some posts here and elsewhere about
>> a persistent "squeak, squeak squeak" under the hood. One fellow, Steve,
>> said it was the crank pulley/harmonic balancer being wobbley. I checked it
>> out, stopped by the dealer, and wanted to share what I found.
>>
>> All C5 harmonic balancers are wobbley. It probably isn't that -- which is
>> a good thing because out of warranty repair is $650.
>>
>> Check the AC belt -- that's what it was in my case. I'm in the process of
>> getting a new "gatorback" belt (cross groved). It could also be the main
>> serpentine belt or even the tensioner. To find the difference, put a
>> socket on the tensioner belt when the engine is running (tighten) -- be
>> careful -- and see if the extra tension causes the noise to go away. If
>> not, remove the AC belt (cut it) and start the engine. If the sound is
>> gone, you know that was the cause. (It is time to replace the belt
>> anyway - my opinion).
>>
>> Hope that helps the next guy.
>>
>> Dave
>>

>
>

  #5  
Old February 9th 06, 07:42 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

"PJ" > wrote in message
...
> sbright wrote:
>> I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing..
>> besides the belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley
>> pulley. Look for fine black dust and follow it to where you think
>> it originated.
>>
>> Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven
>> accessories thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a
>> better solution to this old technology.. I know about electric
>> water pumps.. but I always wonder if they could develop a
>> mechanical way (gear driven) to power the alternator, power
>> steering, etc.
>>
>> -Stan

> Dave, thanks for the info--I'll not panic when looking at the
> balancer.
>
> I tend to agree with Stan though. Sticking a wrench or breaker bar
> down there scares me too. I'm not as steady handed as I once was.
> Stan, you sound like you've been influenced by either the Swiss or
> the Krauts, with a need for very precise gears.
>
> Back in the '70s I was one of the technical monitors on a NavAir
> project (your tax dollars at work) that compared speed reduction and
> drive devices using belts, gears, worms, harmonic drives and a
> couple of electric schemes. I was the guy with clean hands who
> peeked in on the project for 2 years, then wrote the one-page exec
> summary and walked out the door. When all (dollars, weight,
> reliability, bulk, power losses, support, restoration/repair and
> some other trivia) was considered, belts came off very well. Belt
> losses are more than the typical 1% per-gear-in-mesh at most
> practical ratios but when total support (weight, lube overhead,
> shielding from dirt, ease of inspection, prediction of failure,
> etc.) comes into play, the belt usually wins. Major exception was at
> very high belt velocities where belts lift from the pulleys and/or
> get overheated. I think we're going to be stuck with belts for a
> lot of years to come. That said, in the last 30 years there have
> been some great advances in molded plastic gears so the landscape
> might change.
>
> I'm wondering what the belt velocities in the C5 are in comparison
> to other serpentine installations. Someday, I'll stick a ruler down
> there and compare it to the C4 and Mama's land barge--neither of
> those seem to have serpentine problems.
>
> First owner replaced the belt in my C5 about 8 months ago--don't
> know why. Looks as though it lasted about 36 months and 20K miles.)
> That's about 1/2 what I got out of the first belt in my C4 (didn't
> fail or squeak but looked awful -- old age with lots of small chunks
> missing). No squeaks in the C5 yet; but, when I hear a squeak, my
> first ploy will be a gentle rub with a chunk of paraffin --that used
> to work well with vee belts lots of years ago. (Then when the
> slippage occurs, I can get out the solvent and start cleaning
> pulleys <{:-0 ). One more opportunity for a self-inflicted wound!
>
> Oh yeah, and it would be well to use Dad's "sonic agulominator"
> (golf club shaft).
>
> Outta here -- gotta go make a buck.
> --
> …PJ
> ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe
>
>>
>> "Dave" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> I have a 2000 C5 w/ about 50k. I read some posts here and
>>> elsewhere about a persistent "squeak, squeak squeak" under the
>>> hood. One fellow, Steve, said it was the crank pulley/harmonic
>>> balancer being wobbley. I checked it out, stopped by the dealer,
>>> and wanted to share what I found.
>>>
>>> All C5 harmonic balancers are wobbley. It probably isn't that --
>>> which is a good thing because out of warranty repair is $650.
>>>
>>> Check the AC belt -- that's what it was in my case. I'm in the
>>> process of getting a new "gatorback" belt (cross groved). It
>>> could also be the main serpentine belt or even the tensioner. To
>>> find the difference, put a socket on the tensioner belt when the
>>> engine is running (tighten) -- be careful -- and see if the extra
>>> tension causes the noise to go away. If not, remove the AC belt
>>> (cut it) and start the engine. If the sound is gone, you know
>>> that was the cause. (It is time to replace the belt anyway - my
>>> opinion).
>>>
>>> Hope that helps the next guy.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>

I have a real problem with this discussion in that it contains the
statement that "All C5 harmonic balancers are wobbly." and wonder how
I got two that were not. I agree that there is some runout on the
outside portion of some of the harmonic balancers but it don't
"wobble" unless it is loose. If it is loose you retighten or replace
the bolt as per the service bulletin. My present C6 has less than .01
runout checked by a dial indicator normally used to check tire runout.
Belt wear is another item I can't understand as I've lost or replaced
maybe 3 in well over 55 years of driving. My driving involved 70/100
mile daily commutes for years without the kind of problems I see
people telling about in this group. My main replacement part was
exhaust pipes that would burn/rust out about every 2 years.

I also wonder about early brake pad replacement. Seldom if ever have
the disc pads been replaced before 50,000 miles were long gone. I can
see how driving habits can effect this but not the belt problems.
After driving and automatic for 60,000 miles I did have to watch not
pushing the clutch in before the engine drag had time to slow me to a
proper braking speed. The '98 I had was raced more than any car I
owned and the present owner is still on the first set of pads with
46,000 miles. Doesn't anyone break in brakes anymore?

We all like to think we are the best drivers in the world but my
belief is that I've only been good enough, (with luck), to stay alive.
So where is the difference in the cars, the weather, I live in the
salt belt, the bad roads, ever drive I94 or I75 around Detroit? My
guess is that there is also a big difference in the way people
maintain,
or lack there of, their vehicles.

Dad
Pot hole dodger from way back in the gravel road days.


  #6  
Old February 10th 06, 03:31 AM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

Electric powersteering, electric powerbrakes and "flywheel alternators"
will be found on "hybrids".

sbright wrote:

> I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides the
> belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for fine
> black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.
>
> Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven accessories
> thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
> this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
> wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
> alternator, power steering, etc.
>
> -Stan
>
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>I have a 2000 C5 w/ about 50k. I read some posts here and elsewhere about
>>a persistent "squeak, squeak squeak" under the hood. One fellow, Steve,
>>said it was the crank pulley/harmonic balancer being wobbley. I checked it
>>out, stopped by the dealer, and wanted to share what I found.
>>
>>All C5 harmonic balancers are wobbley. It probably isn't that -- which is
>>a good thing because out of warranty repair is $650.
>>
>>Check the AC belt -- that's what it was in my case. I'm in the process of
>>getting a new "gatorback" belt (cross groved). It could also be the main
>>serpentine belt or even the tensioner. To find the difference, put a
>>socket on the tensioner belt when the engine is running (tighten) -- be
>>careful -- and see if the extra tension causes the noise to go away. If
>>not, remove the AC belt (cut it) and start the engine. If the sound is
>>gone, you know that was the cause. (It is time to replace the belt
>>anyway - my opinion).
>>
>>Hope that helps the next guy.
>>
>>Dave
>>

>
>
>

  #7  
Old February 10th 06, 01:01 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

I did.. I had all kinds of belt problems. First it would slip. So the car
got a manual tensioner. Then the pulleys weren't exactly alligned.. it
would eat the belt.. started replacing the pulleys.. basically one at a time
because the tensioner was right next to one of the Procharger idlers..
ordered one, and it was a different size.. ran without that for a while then
ordered the other idler for the other side of the Procharger. Just felt
like they should match in size. The new pulley was wider than the plate on
the Procharger where the one attaches.. putting the bolts which hold it to
the blower under neath the pulley. (So how do you tighten that???)
Scratched my head.. scratched my ass.. finally put a socket in my Dewalt
screw gun and just zipped it on at high speed. Brilliant engineering.
Still had shredding.. found some rust on the water pump (sorry excuse for a)
pulley. Replaced that. Then realized that I had the wrong size belt which
was also routed wrong. I did that when the new wider dia idler came in and
I ran with only one idler on the blower. Procharger could have been more
forthcoming with information...maybe even a web page for all of us that had
the older smaller idlers. Anyway..blah blah blah.. the belt is fine now..
but because of the Kaytech manual tensioner and the 30 degree weather around
here.. I think I fried the bearings in the blower so that is going in to
Procharger for a rebuild. When I had it off one of the times I felt oil in
the air intake side.. thought I was nuts.. but apparently not. Oil level is
critical to maintain in these things. I would be nice if it was tied into
the car oil but I can see a whole lot more trouble that way with
connections/contamination/etc. The procharger oil isn't just regular
10-30w. Having said all of this, I would still definately do it all over
again. The car is fast and I've learned a lot.

-Stan

> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:18:57 -0500, "sbright" >
> wrote:
>
>>I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides
>>the
>>belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for
>>fine
>>black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.
>>
>>Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven
>>accessories
>>thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
>>this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
>>wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
>>alternator, power steering, etc.
>>
>>-Stan
>>

>
>>>

>>

> there have been some attemenpts made to get away from the belt, Lexus
> with there hydraulic cooling fan, most aircraft engines have a gear
> drive for the vacum pump and other things. as long as the belts are
> cheap we are going to have them for a long time.
>
> But as you know Stan, the real problem is not the belt, but rather a
> misalignment and not a wide enough belt.
>
> Ps did you have any belt sllipage problems with your procharger?
> and which model are you running?



  #8  
Old February 10th 06, 10:22 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

Same her. hitting 90k on my 00 c-5. Replaced the AC belt around 50K,
it is starting to squeal again. And I have replaced pads, I break them
in, but use the cars braking abilities frequently. They are awesome
brakes.

  #9  
Old February 10th 06, 10:29 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:01:44 -0500, "sbright" >
wrote:

>I did.. I had all kinds of belt problems. First it would slip. So the car
>got a manual tensioner. Then the pulleys weren't exactly alligned.. it
>would eat the belt.. started replacing the pulleys.. basically one at a time
>because the tensioner was right next to one of the Procharger idlers..
>ordered one, and it was a different size.. ran without that for a while then
>ordered the other idler for the other side of the Procharger. Just felt
>like they should match in size. The new pulley was wider than the plate on
>the Procharger where the one attaches.. putting the bolts which hold it to
>the blower under neath the pulley. (So how do you tighten that???)
>Scratched my head.. scratched my ass.. finally put a socket in my Dewalt
>screw gun and just zipped it on at high speed. Brilliant engineering.
>Still had shredding.. found some rust on the water pump (sorry excuse for a)
>pulley. Replaced that. Then realized that I had the wrong size belt which
>was also routed wrong. I did that when the new wider dia idler came in and
>I ran with only one idler on the blower. Procharger could have been more
>forthcoming with information...maybe even a web page for all of us that had
>the older smaller idlers. Anyway..blah blah blah.. the belt is fine now..
>but because of the Kaytech manual tensioner and the 30 degree weather around
>here.. I think I fried the bearings in the blower so that is going in to
>Procharger for a rebuild. When I had it off one of the times I felt oil in
>the air intake side.. thought I was nuts.. but apparently not. Oil level is
>critical to maintain in these things. I would be nice if it was tied into
>the car oil but I can see a whole lot more trouble that way with
>connections/contamination/etc. The procharger oil isn't just regular
>10-30w. Having said all of this, I would still definately do it all over
>again. The car is fast and I've learned a lot.
>
>-Stan
>
> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Thu, 9 Feb 2006 06:18:57 -0500, "sbright" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I'm not sure about that socket thing on a running pulley thing.. besides
>>>the
>>>belt is usualy not the culprit, but rather a wobbley pulley. Look for
>>>fine
>>>black dust and follow it to where you think it originated.
>>>
>>>Wouldn't it be nice if they did away with the whole belt driven
>>>accessories
>>>thing? Seems like somebody could have come up with a better solution to
>>>this old technology.. I know about electric water pumps.. but I always
>>>wonder if they could develop a mechanical way (gear driven) to power the
>>>alternator, power steering, etc.
>>>
>>>-Stan
>>>

>>
>>>>
>>>

>> there have been some attemenpts made to get away from the belt, Lexus
>> with there hydraulic cooling fan, most aircraft engines have a gear
>> drive for the vacum pump and other things. as long as the belts are
>> cheap we are going to have them for a long time.
>>
>> But as you know Stan, the real problem is not the belt, but rather a
>> misalignment and not a wide enough belt.
>>
>> Ps did you have any belt sllipage problems with your procharger?
>> and which model are you running?

>

i am with you there, Procharger is not very helpfull sometimes.
  #10  
Old February 12th 06, 01:48 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default C5 Belt Squeak

> I have a real problem with this discussion in that it contains the
> statement that "All C5 harmonic balancers are wobbly." and wonder how I
> got two that were not. I agree that there is some runout on the outside
> portion of some of the harmonic balancers but it don't "wobble" unless it
> is loose. If it is loose you retighten or replace the bolt as per the
> service bulletin. My present C6 has less than .01 runout checked by a dial
> indicator normally used to check tire runout. Belt wear is another item I
> can't understand as I've lost or replaced maybe 3 in well over 55 years of
> driving. My driving involved 70/100


I can't answer why some belts last and some don't. I'm not a car mechanic
so I don't know all of the various ways to measure run out on pulleys or
even really know how to adjust them if they weren't lined up (other than
flipping them over). In supercharger applications, the belt does run faster
than it would regularly. I would imagine that makes a perfect fit of the
serp. belt pretty critical. I can say though, that the stock waterpump
pulley does not have edges to it to line the belt up, it just sits wherever
it wants to. Like I said in an earlier post, I've learned a lot -- that's
what makes it fun for me. Being able to blow away EVERY Mustang and ricer
that's ever tried is kinda nice too. I'd love to come up a gainst one of
those new Ford Gt's..

-Stan



 




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