Frex SimConMotion

I've been reading about the Frex motion system. It looks impressive in
the video! Lots of movement.

Has anyone discussed the inaccurate motion cues that Frex system
provides? The Frex system is generating motion cues opposite from what
occurs in real life!

For instance, the inner-ear sensations that the driver experiences will
all be reversed from real life. Also, the pressure and tension changes
the driver feels between his body and the seat while the seat is in
motion are reversed from reality.

The Frex approach seems to be to move the head of the driver around in
the way it would in a real car. From that perspective the system seems
OK, except that eye position movement of the driver is already modelled
in current simulations. I guess you could just turn off the simulated
head movement in the simulation while using the Frex system.

Still, I'd hate to train and practice in that device, then jump in a
real car expecting to go fast!

Pat Dotson

wrote:
> I've been reading about the Frex motion system. It looks impressive in
> the video! Lots of movement.
>
> Has anyone discussed the inaccurate motion cues that Frex system
> provides? The Frex system is generating motion cues opposite from what
> occurs in real life!
>
> For instance, the inner-ear sensations that the driver experiences will
> all be reversed from real life. Also, the pressure and tension changes
> the driver feels between his body and the seat while the seat is in
> motion are reversed from reality.
>
> The Frex approach seems to be to move the head of the driver around in
> the way it would in a real car. From that perspective the system seems
> OK, except that eye position movement of the driver is already modelled
> in current simulations. I guess you could just turn off the simulated
> head movement in the simulation while using the Frex system.
>
> Still, I'd hate to train and practice in that device, then jump in a
> real car expecting to go fast!
>
> Pat Dotson
>
It's simulating G-forces. It's cheaper than a full-motion platform.
People say it feels right.

> It's simulating G-forces.

Obviously.

My point is that the Frex moves in a way such that the eye position of
the driver is changing reasonably close to the way it does in real life
in response to G forces, but as a result, those same movements apply
real G forces to the body of the driver that are completely inaccurate.
In fact, the real G forces that the driver feels while the chair is
moving are reversed from what happens in real life.

Is it cheaper than a motion platform? Much! Is it better than no
motion? Surely. Does it accurately present real world motion cues to
the driver? No. Is it suitable for race driver training? I don't
think so.

Pat Dotson


Trev B wrote:
> wrote:
> > I've been reading about the Frex motion system. It looks impressive in
> > the video! Lots of movement.
> >
> > Has anyone discussed the inaccurate motion cues that Frex system
> > provides? The Frex system is generating motion cues opposite from what
> > occurs in real life!
> >
> > For instance, the inner-ear sensations that the driver experiences will
> > all be reversed from real life. Also, the pressure and tension changes
> > the driver feels between his body and the seat while the seat is in
> > motion are reversed from reality.
> >
> > The Frex approach seems to be to move the head of the driver around in
> > the way it would in a real car. From that perspective the system seems
> > OK, except that eye position movement of the driver is already modelled
> > in current simulations. I guess you could just turn off the simulated
> > head movement in the simulation while using the Frex system.
> >
> > Still, I'd hate to train and practice in that device, then jump in a
> > real car expecting to go fast!
> >
> > Pat Dotson
> >
> It's simulating G-forces. It's cheaper than a full-motion platform.
> People say it feels right.

Have you tried it? It tries to give you seat-of-the-pants feel. As
that's the aim, the movement is correct.

wrote:
>>It's simulating G-forces.
>
>
> Obviously.
>
> My point is that the Frex moves in a way such that the eye position of
> the driver is changing reasonably close to the way it does in real life
> in response to G forces, but as a result, those same movements apply
> real G forces to the body of the driver that are completely inaccurate.
> In fact, the real G forces that the driver feels while the chair is
> moving are reversed from what happens in real life.
>
> Is it cheaper than a motion platform? Much! Is it better than no
> motion? Surely. Does it accurately present real world motion cues to
> the driver? No. Is it suitable for race driver training? I don't
> think so.
>
> Pat Dotson
>
>
> Trev B wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>>I've been reading about the Frex motion system. It looks impressive in
>>>the video! Lots of movement.
>>>
>>>Has anyone discussed the inaccurate motion cues that Frex system
>>>provides? The Frex system is generating motion cues opposite from what
>>>occurs in real life!
>>>
>>>For instance, the inner-ear sensations that the driver experiences will
>>>all be reversed from real life. Also, the pressure and tension changes
>>>the driver feels between his body and the seat while the seat is in
>>>motion are reversed from reality.
>>>
>>>The Frex approach seems to be to move the head of the driver around in
>>>the way it would in a real car. From that perspective the system seems
>>>OK, except that eye position movement of the driver is already modelled
>>>in current simulations. I guess you could just turn off the simulated
>>>head movement in the simulation while using the Frex system.
>>>
>>>Still, I'd hate to train and practice in that device, then jump in a
>>>real car expecting to go fast!
>>>
>>>Pat Dotson
>>>
>>
>>It's simulating G-forces. It's cheaper than a full-motion platform.
>>People say it feels right.
>
>

I haven't tried it - only saw the video. Have you tried it? I'd be
interested to hear what you think about it.

As I've outlined, I believe the movements of the Frex SimConMotion
create inaccurate, conflicting motion cues. Please tell me where I'm
wrong.

Pat Dotson



Trev B wrote:
> Have you tried it? It tries to give you seat-of-the-pants feel. As
> that's the aim, the movement is correct.
>

I can tell you where you are wrong, 1st off your simulating the forces
applied the the body of a person, who is in the cockpit of a car/plane/train
(stationary object inside a moving object) which is all done in combination
with inherent visual cues from the games (notice the screen moves with
you)...

But, ride in the back of my pickup, when I gass the throttle, and you are
standing up, you will fall backwards. It isnt really because you did
anything but shifted the direction of center of gravity... in a chair
however if mounted sturdy, you would just feel increased "G" forces which is
being basically weight distributing across your bones and muscles. Much in
the way tipping a chair backwards makes your body "shift it's weight" from
the bottom of your butt to the back and {arms? as you catch yourself in some
cases}... So the tilting platform to the right, to simulate the body being
in a tight left turn, well It seems to simulate gforce loading of bones and
muscles. Now, I agree, that the Frex cannot really simulate accurately, the
forces of you hitting the wall at anything above running barfoot 12 year old
could do top speed, I would guess for no other reason than legal liability
as death could happen (and power demands LOL)...

If you have not tried the "state fair" simulation movie theater trialers,
your missing out, and I do know that when the picture dies, the motiions of
the chairs and stuff are downright goofy and you are left with WTF feelings,
but at the same time, if you dont have your tongue just right you will
almost bite the damn thing off...


wrote:
> I haven't tried it - only saw the video. Have you tried it? I'd be
> interested to hear what you think about it.
>
> As I've outlined, I believe the movements of the Frex SimConMotion
> create inaccurate, conflicting motion cues. Please tell me where I'm
> wrong.
>
> Pat Dotson
>
>
>
> Trev B wrote:
>> Have you tried it? It tries to give you seat-of-the-pants feel. As
>> that's the aim, the movement is correct.

Make your statement he

http://forum.rscnet.org/forumdisplay...prune=30&f=809


wrote:
> I haven't tried it - only saw the video. Have you tried it? I'd be
> interested to hear what you think about it.
>
> As I've outlined, I believe the movements of the Frex SimConMotion
> create inaccurate, conflicting motion cues. Please tell me where I'm
> wrong.
>
> Pat Dotson
>
>
>
> Trev B wrote:
>
>>Have you tried it? It tries to give you seat-of-the-pants feel. As
>>that's the aim, the movement is correct.
>>
>
>