C4 Injector Removal

"C4RagTop" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On May 6, 9:17 am, "Dad" > wrote:
>> "PJ" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dad wrote:
>>
>> >> "JimH" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>> >>>> Hi All,
>>
>> >>>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I
>> >>>> think I'm
>> >>>> finally on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts
>> >>>> fine cold and
>> >>>> within 5 - 8 mins after shutdown. After that, cars
>> >>>> cranks long,
>> >>>> starts and idles rough and smells very rich.
>>
>> >>> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned
>> >>> out to be a
>> >>> carbon build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon
>> >>> absorbed
>> >>> gas. When the car cooled a little after being driven,
>> >>> it would
>> >>> release the gas, and flood the engine. The dealership
>> >>> had to work
>> >>> with Chevy to diagnose it. They used some solvent to
>> >>> clean out the
>> >>> engine, and it ran great after that.
>>
>> >>> Hope this helps...
>>
>> >> Interesting, which make one wonder how many more
>> >> deposits are left
>> >> in our engines with today's fuels. My C6 has the
>> >> sootiest looking
>> >> exhaust pipes I ever seen; looks like they did when
>> >> the choke stuck
>> >> in the older cars but gets twice the MPG.
>>
>> > Hmmm, tend to think you're on to something. I've
>> > noticed more
>> > combustion roughness when we go through our annual
>> > winter-to-summer
>> > gasoline changeover -- and it's been worse out West
>> > since we had to
>> > give up MTBE. Maybe we're getting some Chinese wheat
>> > gluten in the
>> > gas.
>>
>> > *Hey Dad.* We used to clean out cylinder deposits by
>> > 'drizzling'
>> > diesel down the carburetor -- do you have a way to
>> > 'administer'
>> > diesel juice into a 'vette -- or would the internal
>> > tamps make this
>> > a dumb maneuver?
>>
>> Actual we used a product from Ce-Pen-Co that we metered
>> into the carb
>> to burn out the deposits and kill all mosquitoes in a 5
>> mile radius.
>> There are cleaners in a pressurized cans that screw onto
>> the fitting
>> on the fuel rail to do it now. Of course there is a GM
>> approved
>> version that is 4X the price that they recommend.- Hide
>> quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hmmm.. just spoke to GM and they don't have anything that
> comes in a
> can via the schrader valve, just stuff to dump in our
> tank. Someone
> else suggested that the O2 sensors can go open loop mode
> and cause
> rich buring without flaging a code (ODB1). Could the O2
> sensors be
> causing this as well?

have you even tried to run a good injector cleaner through
your tank first ?
(suggest the gm cleaner or Lucas Injector cleaner)
I would at lease try that before you start replacing the O2
sensors.
--
"Key"
=====

C4RagTop wrote:
> On May 6, 9:17 am, "Dad" > wrote:
>> "PJ" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>> Dad wrote:
>>>> "JimH" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm
>>>>>> finally on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and
>>>>>> within 5 - 8 mins after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long,
>>>>>> starts and idles rough and smells very rich.
>>>>> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a
>>>>> carbon build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed
>>>>> gas. When the car cooled a little after being driven, it would
>>>>> release the gas, and flood the engine. The dealership had to work
>>>>> with Chevy to diagnose it. They used some solvent to clean out the
>>>>> engine, and it ran great after that.
>>>>> Hope this helps...
>>>> Interesting, which make one wonder how many more deposits are left
>>>> in our engines with today's fuels. My C6 has the sootiest looking
>>>> exhaust pipes I ever seen; looks like they did when the choke stuck
>>>> in the older cars but gets twice the MPG.
>>> Hmmm, tend to think you're on to something. I've noticed more
>>> combustion roughness when we go through our annual winter-to-summer
>>> gasoline changeover -- and it's been worse out West since we had to
>>> give up MTBE. Maybe we're getting some Chinese wheat gluten in the
>>> gas.
>>> *Hey Dad.* We used to clean out cylinder deposits by 'drizzling'
>>> diesel down the carburetor -- do you have a way to 'administer'
>>> diesel juice into a 'vette -- or would the internal tamps make this
>>> a dumb maneuver?
>> Actual we used a product from Ce-Pen-Co that we metered into the carb
>> to burn out the deposits and kill all mosquitoes in a 5 mile radius.
>> There are cleaners in a pressurized cans that screw onto the fitting
>> on the fuel rail to do it now. Of course there is a GM approved
>> version that is 4X the price that they recommend.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Hmmm.. just spoke to GM and they don't have anything that comes in a
> can via the schrader valve, just stuff to dump in our tank. Someone
> else suggested that the O2 sensors can go open loop mode and cause
> rich buring without flaging a code (ODB1). Could the O2 sensors be
> causing this as well?
>

Try this out for size (scroll down the page to the paragraph on
using an R-12 hose -- you're on your own)

< http://www.twoguysgarage.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=7385 >

Here's a product. 3M UNIVERSAL FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER, 10 OZ. AEROSOL
(08956)

Note that the can has 100 psi of pressure.

--
PJ

"PJ" > wrote in message
...
Snip
> Here's a product. 3M UNIVERSAL FUEL INJECTOR CLEANER, 10 OZ.
> AEROSOL (08956)
>
> Note that the can has 100 psi of pressure. --
> PJ

WOW, that's wedding night pressure; just what MacGyver needed back in
the late '80's. GM says to boost the pressure up to 70/ 90 PSI to
clean/flush the injection system.

Dad
--
Everyone should have a spouse, because there are a number of
things that go wrong that one can't blame on the government.

your sig reminds me of this joke I seen on another group.

> A man riding his Harley was riding along a California
> beach when
> suddenly the sky clouded above his head and, in a booming
> voice, the
> Lord said, "Because you have tried to be faithful to me in
> all ways, I
> will grant you one wish.
>
> The biker pulled over and said, "Build a bridge to Hawaii
> so I can
> ride over anytime I want." The Lord said, "Your request is
> materialistic, think of the enormous challenges for that
> kind of
> undertaking; the supports required reaching the bottom of
> the
> Pacific and the concrete and steel it would take! It will
> nearly
> exhaust several natural resources. I can do it, but it is
> hard for
> me to justify your desire for worldly things. Take a
> little more
> time and think of something that could possibly help
> mankind."
> > >
> The biker thought about it for a long time. Finally, he
> said, "Lord, I
> wish that I and all men could understand women; I want to
> know how
> she feels inside, what she's thinking when she gives me
> the silent
> treatment, why she cries, what she means when she says
> nothing's
> wrong, and how I can make a Woman truly happy."

> The Lord replied, "You want two lanes or four on that
> bridge?

g'day
--
"Key"
=====

"'Key" > wrote in message
...
Snip
>> The Lord replied, "You want two lanes or four on that bridge?
>
> g'day
> --
> "Key"
> =====
>
Have you any idea how many men would work on that bridge??????

Dad

My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS
and it is really her personality!

I have an 85 with the same exact problem except it also has a rough idle. Do
you know what type of solvent they used? Did they just run it thru or clean
things by hand? Thanks, Brad

"JimH" > wrote in message
...
> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm finally on
>> to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within 5 - 8 mins
>> after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and idles rough and
>> smells very rich.
>
> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a carbon
> build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed gas. When the car
> cooled a little after being driven, it would release the gas, and flood
> the engine. The dealership had to work with Chevy to diagnose it. They
> used some solvent to clean out the engine, and it ran great after that.
>
> Hope this helps...

I had exactly the same problem for years with my 1986 convertible. The
problem turned out to be the fuel pump. Apparently there was a small crack
or something that caused the problem. Once it was replaced entire issue
went away.

Mike.
"Brad" > wrote in message
...
>I have an 85 with the same exact problem except it also has a rough idle.
>Do you know what type of solvent they used? Did they just run it thru or
>clean things by hand? Thanks, Brad
>
> "JimH" > wrote in message
> ...
>> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm finally
>>> on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within 5 - 8 mins
>>> after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and idles rough
>>> and smells very rich.
>>
>> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a carbon
>> build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed gas. When the car
>> cooled a little after being driven, it would release the gas, and flood
>> the engine. The dealership had to work with Chevy to diagnose it. They
>> used some solvent to clean out the engine, and it ran great after that.
>>
>> Hope this helps...
>
>
>

Mike Cenni wrote:

> I had exactly the same problem for years with my 1986 convertible. The
> problem turned out to be the fuel pump. Apparently there was a small
> crack
> or something that caused the problem. Once it was replaced entire issue
> went away.
>
> Mike.
> "Brad" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I have an 85 with the same exact problem except it also has a rough idle.
>>Do you know what type of solvent they used? Did they just run it thru or
>>clean things by hand? Thanks, Brad
>>
>> "JimH" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm finally
>>>> on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within 5 - 8
>>>> mins
>>>> after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and idles rough
>>>> and smells very rich.
>>>
>>> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a carbon
>>> build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed gas. When the
>>> car cooled a little after being driven, it would release the gas, and
>>> flood the engine. The dealership had to work with Chevy to diagnose it.
>>> They used some solvent to clean out the engine, and it ran great after
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps...
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

On the output of the fuel pump there's what appears to be a snubber --
Chevy calls this a 'pulsator.' Last fuel pump replacement I did, I just
replaced the pump and left the old snubber in place. (IIRC the price of a
new one seemed high.)

Wonder what the life of a snubber is and what the symptoms are when it
quits 'snubbing?'

--
PJ

Wow, remember the days when you could just pour water slowly down the carb
and clean all the carbon out?

Too bad you can't do that today.

"Dad" > wrote in message
.. .
>
(lot of stuff snipped)

> Actual we used a product from Ce-Pen-Co that we metered into the carb to
> burn out the deposits and kill all mosquitoes in a 5 mile radius. There
> are cleaners in a pressurized cans that screw onto the fitting on the fuel
> rail to do it now. Of course there is a GM approved version that is 4X the
> price that they recommend.