C4 Injector Removal

Hi All,

I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm finally on to
something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within 5 - 8 mins after
shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and idles rough and smells
very rich. After she 'clears her throat' she runs fine and strong. No
other issues! Changed splugs, wires, rotor, button cleaned MAF wires.
Upgraded relays that link to MAF as per production bulletin. Disconnect Cold
Start Valve. No resolution and seemed to get worse!

I'm now down to the possibility that my injectors are leaking. I would like
to at least pull a couple out to check the o-rings. O-ring kit from dealer
is $28. I don't have a service manual (YET!). The task looks daunting.
Any advise on the best way to get at these? Any other parts I might need
like gaskets, etc.. when doing this job?

TIA!

Save the Wave!

BTW, 117,000 kms original kilometers (72, 500 miles) and garaged.

Thanx!

"88C4RagTop" > wrote in message
newsv3%h.161781$aG1.144972@pd7urf3no...
> Hi All,
>
> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm finally on
> to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within 5 - 8 mins
> after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and idles rough and
> smells very rich. After she 'clears her throat' she runs fine and strong.
> No other issues! Changed splugs, wires, rotor, button cleaned MAF wires.
> Upgraded relays that link to MAF as per production bulletin. Disconnect
> Cold Start Valve. No resolution and seemed to get worse!
>
> I'm now down to the possibility that my injectors are leaking. I would
> like to at least pull a couple out to check the o-rings. O-ring kit from
> dealer is $28. I don't have a service manual (YET!). The task looks
> daunting. Any advise on the best way to get at these? Any other parts I
> might need like gaskets, etc.. when doing this job?
>
> TIA!
>
> Save the Wave!
>
>
>

88C4RagTop wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm finally on to
> something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within 5 - 8 mins after
> shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and idles rough and smells
> very rich.

I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a carbon
build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed gas. When the
car cooled a little after being driven, it would release the gas, and
flood the engine. The dealership had to work with Chevy to diagnose it.
They used some solvent to clean out the engine, and it ran great after
that.

Hope this helps...

"JimH" > wrote in message
...
> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm
>> finally on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and
>> within 5 - 8 mins after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long,
>> starts and idles rough and smells very rich.
>
> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a
> carbon build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed gas.
> When the car cooled a little after being driven, it would release
> the gas, and flood the engine. The dealership had to work with Chevy
> to diagnose it. They used some solvent to clean out the engine, and
> it ran great after that.
>
> Hope this helps...

Interesting, which make one wonder how many more deposits are left in
our engines with today's fuels. My C6 has the sootiest looking exhaust
pipes I ever seen; looks like they did when the choke stuck in the
older cars but gets twice the MPG.

"88C4RagTop" > wrote in message
newsv3%h.161781$aG1.144972@pd7urf3no...
> Hi All,
>
> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think
> I'm finally on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine
> cold and within 5 - 8 mins after shutdown. After that,
> cars cranks long, starts and idles rough and smells very
> rich. After she 'clears her throat' she runs fine and
> strong. No other issues! Changed splugs, wires, rotor,
> button cleaned MAF wires. Upgraded relays that link to MAF
> as per production bulletin. Disconnect Cold Start Valve.
> No resolution and seemed to get worse!
>
> I'm now down to the possibility that my injectors are
> leaking. I would like to at least pull a couple out to
> check the o-rings. O-ring kit from dealer is $28. I
> don't have a service manual (YET!). The task looks
> daunting. Any advise on the best way to get at these? Any
> other parts I might need like gaskets, etc.. when doing
> this job?
>
> TIA!
>
> Save the Wave!


run some Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant and Fuel Injector
Cleaner
http://www.lucasoil.com/testimonials/index.sd?catid=14
through a couple tanks of gas,
be sure and change your gas filter afterwards.

g'luck
--
"Key"
=====

Dad wrote:
>
> "JimH" > wrote in message
> ...
>> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm
>>> finally on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within
>>> 5 - 8 mins after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and
>>> idles rough and smells very rich.
>>
>> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a carbon
>> build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed gas. When the
>> car cooled a little after being driven, it would release the gas, and
>> flood the engine. The dealership had to work with Chevy to diagnose
>> it. They used some solvent to clean out the engine, and it ran great
>> after that.
>>
>> Hope this helps...
>
> Interesting, which make one wonder how many more deposits are left in
> our engines with today's fuels. My C6 has the sootiest looking exhaust
> pipes I ever seen; looks like they did when the choke stuck in the older
> cars but gets twice the MPG.
>
>
Hmmm, tend to think you're on to something. I've noticed more
combustion roughness when we go through our annual winter-to-summer
gasoline changeover -- and it's been worse out West since we had to give
up MTBE. Maybe we're getting some Chinese wheat gluten in the gas.

*Hey Dad.* We used to clean out cylinder deposits by 'drizzling' diesel
down the carburetor -- do you have a way to 'administer' diesel juice
into a 'vette -- or would the internal tamps make this a dumb maneuver?

--
PJ

"PJ" > wrote in message
...
> Dad wrote:
>>
>> "JimH" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm finally
>>>> on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within 5 - 8
>>>> mins after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and idles
>>>> rough and smells very rich.
>>>
>>> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a carbon
>>> build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed gas. When the
>>> car cooled a little after being driven, it would release the gas, and
>>> flood the engine. The dealership had to work with Chevy to diagnose it.
>>> They used some solvent to clean out the engine, and it ran great after
>>> that.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps...
>>
>> Interesting, which make one wonder how many more deposits are left in our
>> engines with today's fuels. My C6 has the sootiest looking exhaust pipes
>> I ever seen; looks like they did when the choke stuck in the older cars
>> but gets twice the MPG.
>>
>>
> Hmmm, tend to think you're on to something. I've noticed more combustion
> roughness when we go through our annual winter-to-summer gasoline
> changeover -- and it's been worse out West since we had to give up MTBE.
> Maybe we're getting some Chinese wheat gluten in the gas.

I'm pretty POd about this gluten business. I haven't lost a pet, but it's
driving me nuts trying to keep up with the continual expansions of the
recalls.

> *Hey Dad.* We used to clean out cylinder deposits by 'drizzling' diesel
> down the carburetor -- do you have a way to 'administer' diesel juice into
> a 'vette -- or would the internal tamps make this a dumb maneuver?

I'm assuming changing brands of gas for a while to change the detergents in
it isn't sufficient.. That these deposits are just to tough/extensive?

AJM
'93 Ruby coupe, 6 sp (both tops)

"PJ" > wrote in message
...
> Dad wrote:
>>
>> "JimH" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> 88C4RagTop wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm
>>>> finally on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and
>>>> within 5 - 8 mins after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long,
>>>> starts and idles rough and smells very rich.
>>>
>>> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a
>>> carbon build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed
>>> gas. When the car cooled a little after being driven, it would
>>> release the gas, and flood the engine. The dealership had to work
>>> with Chevy to diagnose it. They used some solvent to clean out the
>>> engine, and it ran great after that.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps...
>>
>> Interesting, which make one wonder how many more deposits are left
>> in our engines with today's fuels. My C6 has the sootiest looking
>> exhaust pipes I ever seen; looks like they did when the choke stuck
>> in the older cars but gets twice the MPG.
>>
>>
> Hmmm, tend to think you're on to something. I've noticed more
> combustion roughness when we go through our annual winter-to-summer
> gasoline changeover -- and it's been worse out West since we had to
> give up MTBE. Maybe we're getting some Chinese wheat gluten in the
> gas.
>
> *Hey Dad.* We used to clean out cylinder deposits by 'drizzling'
> diesel down the carburetor -- do you have a way to 'administer'
> diesel juice into a 'vette -- or would the internal tamps make this
> a dumb maneuver?
>
Actual we used a product from Ce-Pen-Co that we metered into the carb
to burn out the deposits and kill all mosquitoes in a 5 mile radius.
There are cleaners in a pressurized cans that screw onto the fitting
on the fuel rail to do it now. Of course there is a GM approved
version that is 4X the price that they recommend.

Jeez.. just when I though I had it licked! You have given me something
else to think about. I'll try the carbon cleaner if it causes similar
simptoms that I am experiencing. Thanks everyone for your feedba
"88C4RagTop" > wrote in message
newsv3%h.161781$aG1.144972@pd7urf3no...
> Hi All,
>
> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm finally on
to
> something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and within 5 - 8 mins after
> shutdown. After that, cars cranks long, starts and idles rough and smells
> very rich. After she 'clears her throat' she runs fine and strong. No
> other issues! Changed splugs, wires, rotor, button cleaned MAF wires.
> Upgraded relays that link to MAF as per production bulletin. Disconnect
Cold
> Start Valve. No resolution and seemed to get worse!
>
> I'm now down to the possibility that my injectors are leaking. I would
like
> to at least pull a couple out to check the o-rings. O-ring kit from
dealer
> is $28. I don't have a service manual (YET!). The task looks daunting.
> Any advise on the best way to get at these? Any other parts I might need
> like gaskets, etc.. when doing this job?
>
> TIA!
>
> Save the Wave!
>
>
>

On May 6, 9:17 am, "Dad" > wrote:
> "PJ" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > Dad wrote:
>
> >> "JimH" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> 88C4RagTop wrote:
> >>>> Hi All,
>
> >>>> I've been tracking this problem down for YEARS and I think I'm
> >>>> finally on to something. PROBLEM: 1988 - starts fine cold and
> >>>> within 5 - 8 mins after shutdown. After that, cars cranks long,
> >>>> starts and idles rough and smells very rich.
>
> >>> I had a very similar problem in my 1985. It turned out to be a
> >>> carbon build up in the combustion chamber. The carbon absorbed
> >>> gas. When the car cooled a little after being driven, it would
> >>> release the gas, and flood the engine. The dealership had to work
> >>> with Chevy to diagnose it. They used some solvent to clean out the
> >>> engine, and it ran great after that.
>
> >>> Hope this helps...
>
> >> Interesting, which make one wonder how many more deposits are left
> >> in our engines with today's fuels. My C6 has the sootiest looking
> >> exhaust pipes I ever seen; looks like they did when the choke stuck
> >> in the older cars but gets twice the MPG.
>
> > Hmmm, tend to think you're on to something. I've noticed more
> > combustion roughness when we go through our annual winter-to-summer
> > gasoline changeover -- and it's been worse out West since we had to
> > give up MTBE. Maybe we're getting some Chinese wheat gluten in the
> > gas.
>
> > *Hey Dad.* We used to clean out cylinder deposits by 'drizzling'
> > diesel down the carburetor -- do you have a way to 'administer'
> > diesel juice into a 'vette -- or would the internal tamps make this
> > a dumb maneuver?
>
> Actual we used a product from Ce-Pen-Co that we metered into the carb
> to burn out the deposits and kill all mosquitoes in a 5 mile radius.
> There are cleaners in a pressurized cans that screw onto the fitting
> on the fuel rail to do it now. Of course there is a GM approved
> version that is 4X the price that they recommend.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hmmm.. just spoke to GM and they don't have anything that comes in a
can via the schrader valve, just stuff to dump in our tank. Someone
else suggested that the O2 sensors can go open loop mode and cause
rich buring without flaging a code (ODB1). Could the O2 sensors be
causing this as well?