Clutch issue - 92

Hello All

Just wondering if anyone has suggestions.

My 92 XLT (85,000) exhibited a clutch pedal -to the-floor problem last
night.

The clutch reservoir took a little fluid, but was mostly full - so it
doesn't seem like a leak somewhere, as often is indicated here and other
boards in response to sinking clutch pedal problems. The Explorer was
outside at my job, and it was VERY cold - maybe 19 degrees, The vehicle was
parked with the nose slightly downward. I saw at least one post years back
from someone here or elsewhere who had a similar condition in cold weather,
but I didn't see any good answers.

Some details: I started the truck, shifted normally into reverse and backed
out of the spot. Then, when I pushed down the pedal, it was almost to the
floor, and I couldn't get into gear. I allowed the vehicle to back down into
another space. The pedal then was up about two thirds of the way. Then it
came up all the way, and I drove home about 20 miles with no problems,
shifting all the way. I tried it this morning (the vehicle was in a garage
all night - about 50 degrees), and it worked fine. I down it back and forth
numerous times without a problems or sponginess' in the pedal or anything.
Again, I put about several tablespoons of brake fluid into the reservoir.

I'm tempted just to drive it again and blame it on the frigid weather, but I
don't want to get stuck somewhere.The frigid temperature may be just a
coincidence or exacerbating a problem.. I DO have the shop manual and Haines
book, if any of those will help me.

Thanks for any ideas.


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.

Anthony Giorgianni wrote:
> Hello All
>
> Just wondering if anyone has suggestions.
>
> My 92 XLT (85,000) exhibited a clutch pedal -to the-floor problem last
> night.
>
> The clutch reservoir took a little fluid, but was mostly full - so it
> doesn't seem like a leak somewhere

You eliminated one of the two possible causes- an external leak. The
remaining possibility is the master cylinder. That relies on seals. I
would theorize that the seals are getting old and hard, and when cold
are not a flexible and so don't seal as well, allowing the fluid to
leak past and back into the reservoir.

You might try bleeding the clutch just to replace the fluid. After all
those years it gets some sludge in there, bleeding will flush it out
some. If it happens again, try pumping the clutch a few times to see if
the seals seat better. Or replace it with a rebuilt master cylinder
and be done with it.
-Paul

On 9 Dec 2006 14:17:18 -0800, wrote:

>
>Anthony Giorgianni wrote:
>> Hello All
>>
>> Just wondering if anyone has suggestions.
>>
>> My 92 XLT (85,000) exhibited a clutch pedal -to the-floor problem last
>> night.
>>
>> The clutch reservoir took a little fluid, but was mostly full - so it
>> doesn't seem like a leak somewhere
>
>You eliminated one of the two possible causes- an external leak. The
>remaining possibility is the master cylinder. That relies on seals. I
>would theorize that the seals are getting old and hard, and when cold
>are not a flexible and so don't seal as well, allowing the fluid to
>leak past and back into the reservoir.
>
>You might try bleeding the clutch just to replace the fluid. After all
>those years it gets some sludge in there, bleeding will flush it out
>some. If it happens again, try pumping the clutch a few times to see if
>the seals seat better. Or replace it with a rebuilt master cylinder
>and be done with it.
>-Paul

It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder.
Getting to it is a major repair effort.

Thanks for the replies. After looking at more past posts here and elsewhere,
I'm concerned it may be one of the slave cylinders. I went under the truck
today and saw no sign of any leaks anywhere. I pulled the rubber plug off
the bottom of the transmission, and it all looked dry, the same with the
little slot through which the flywheel is visible. The level in the master
cylinder remains at the top. Drove around today, and everything worked
properly. Not sure what to do.

I would change the fluid, but I've seen some horror stories with people
trying to bleed the system properly, and I don't have anyone to help. I'm
thinking that if I just drive it, I'll get stuck - a real problem if it's
on the parkway. And if I take it to a shop, they'll likely feel they have to
fix something, even if it isn't broken. What a headache.


--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

The return address for this post is fictitious. Please reply by posting back
to the newsgroup.
"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
...
> On 9 Dec 2006 14:17:18 -0800, wrote:
>
> >
> >Anthony Giorgianni wrote:
> >> Hello All
> >>
> >> Just wondering if anyone has suggestions.
> >>
> >> My 92 XLT (85,000) exhibited a clutch pedal -to the-floor problem last
> >> night.
> >>
> >> The clutch reservoir took a little fluid, but was mostly full - so it
> >> doesn't seem like a leak somewhere
> >
> >You eliminated one of the two possible causes- an external leak. The
> >remaining possibility is the master cylinder. That relies on seals. I
> >would theorize that the seals are getting old and hard, and when cold
> >are not a flexible and so don't seal as well, allowing the fluid to
> >leak past and back into the reservoir.
> >
> >You might try bleeding the clutch just to replace the fluid. After all
> >those years it gets some sludge in there, bleeding will flush it out
> >some. If it happens again, try pumping the clutch a few times to see if
> >the seals seat better. Or replace it with a rebuilt master cylinder
> >and be done with it.
> >-Paul
>
> It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder.
> Getting to it is a major repair effort.

Ashton Crusher wrote:
>
> It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder.
> Getting to it is a major repair effort.

If the slave cylinder leaks it's external- fluid is lost, and the level
in the reservoir would drop. He says that is not happening, so I think
we can rule out a leaky slave cylinder.
-Paul

Anthony Giorgianni wrote:
> Thanks for the replies. After looking at more past posts here and elsewhere,
> I'm concerned it may be one of the slave cylinders. I went under the truck
> today and saw no sign of any leaks anywhere. I pulled the rubber plug off
> the bottom of the transmission, and it all looked dry, the same with the
> little slot through which the flywheel is visible. The level in the master
> cylinder remains at the top. Drove around today, and everything worked
> properly. Not sure what to do.
>
> I would change the fluid, but I've seen some horror stories with people
> trying to bleed the system properly, and I don't have anyone to help. I'm
> thinking that if I just drive it, I'll get stuck - a real problem if it's
> on the parkway. And if I take it to a shop, they'll likely feel they have to
> fix something, even if it isn't broken. What a headache.
>

If it's not leaking, it's not the slave cylinder. When the slave
cylinder leaks you lose fluid and the reservoir level will drop. If you
don't see any fluid dripping from the clutch housing or the level in
the reservoir dropping, you can rule that out.

The master cylinder is different. When you have a leak past the seals
the fluid leaks past the piston and back into the reservoir instead of
actuating the clutch. So you don't lose fluid.

Bleeding the clutch should be pretty much like bleeding brakes. If
that's more than you want to take on, just have the master cylinder
replaced.
-Paul

Thanks a lot Paul!

The only thing I DID see was a little drip of black (smelled like burned
rubber) between the tranny and engine. I usually have small drop there that
normally looks like engine oil (My oil always is very clean since I change
it so much). This seemed like some else, but just one thick drop. Again,
only tiny bit - if any - loss in the master cylinder. I put a little in
and it went right to the top, Had to siphon some off.

But I really hope you are right because I don't want to become a, well,
slave to my slave cylinder. :O) I did see one report of someone on
explorerforums.com who apparently had a slave leak without seeing any big
drop of fluid in the master cylinder. I don't see how that could be. But he
took everything apart himself and said the cylinder was shredded or
something (there's a rubber boot?) He's also the one who could not get the
air out of the system. Wound up having to tear everything apart twice!!! 13
hours each time.

I sure do wish they still made the Explorer with a manual. I'd just go out
and get another one (or maybe that would be a mistake, given my problem) But
my 92 still is like new but for that and my JBL subwoofer.otherwise

Thanks again!


> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>
>> It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder.
>> Getting to it is a major repair effort.
>
> If the slave cylinder leaks it's external- fluid is lost, and the level
> in the reservoir would drop. He says that is not happening, so I think
> we can rule out a leaky slave cylinder.
> -Paul
>

I am with you, Anthony. Manual transmission is now a "premium" item
available of Cadillacs, Lincolns, and even Hummers...but not the Expolorer.
Mine has been rock solid and a pleasure to drive for 225K miles and I guess
I have to keep it since they only offer the manual version in Australia.

BTW, I'd just go for the clutch and slave cylinder replacement. After doing
mine at 160K, the trans was like new again and continues so. I never saw a
leak in mine, either, but it was just not releasing well and was hard to get
into gear.

=Vic=
Bear Gap, PA

"Anthony Giorgianni" <pleasepostbacktothe lid>
wrote in message
...
> Thanks a lot Paul!
>
> The only thing I DID see was a little drip of black (smelled like burned
> rubber) between the tranny and engine. I usually have small drop there
> that normally looks like engine oil (My oil always is very clean since I
> change it so much). This seemed like some else, but just one thick drop.
> Again, only tiny bit - if any - loss in the master cylinder. I put a
> little in and it went right to the top, Had to siphon some off.
>
> But I really hope you are right because I don't want to become a, well,
> slave to my slave cylinder. :O) I did see one report of someone on
> explorerforums.com who apparently had a slave leak without seeing any big
> drop of fluid in the master cylinder. I don't see how that could be. But
> he took everything apart himself and said the cylinder was shredded or
> something (there's a rubber boot?) He's also the one who could not get the
> air out of the system. Wound up having to tear everything apart twice!!!
> 13 hours each time.
>
> I sure do wish they still made the Explorer with a manual. I'd just go out
> and get another one (or maybe that would be a mistake, given my problem)
> But my 92 still is like new but for that and my JBL subwoofer.otherwise
>
> Thanks again!
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>>
>> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>
>>> It's also possible the leaking seals are in the slave cylinder.
>>> Getting to it is a major repair effort.
>>
>> If the slave cylinder leaks it's external- fluid is lost, and the level
>> in the reservoir would drop. He says that is not happening, so I think
>> we can rule out a leaky slave cylinder.
>> -Paul
>>
>
>

Vic Klein wrote:
> I am with you, Anthony. Manual transmission is now a "premium" item
> available of Cadillacs, Lincolns, and even Hummers...but not the Expolorer.
> Mine has been rock solid and a pleasure to drive for 225K miles and I guess
> I have to keep it since they only offer the manual version in Australia.
>
> BTW, I'd just go for the clutch and slave cylinder replacement. After doing
> mine at 160K, the trans was like new again and continues so. I never saw a
> leak in mine, either, but it was just not releasing well and was hard to get
> into gear.

Replacing the clutch is very expensive due to the labor to get it apart
and back together. I wouldn't replace the clutch unless it's slipping,
chattering, or not releasing properly.

If you DO need to replace it, or the transmission, by all means replace
the whole works with high quality parts.

-Paul

Thanks everyone. Heard from the dealer this morning. Slow leak in the slave.
Oh well. $1,100!! to replace cutch, throwout bearing and slave. I called
some other shops. Price seems about right for NY-Connecticut region. One
wanted $1,200! I've also asked them to look into changing the top rubber
plugs. I gave them the part numbers from the old Singleton Explorer site. I
wonder if the replacement plugs still are available.

Thanks again.

--
Regards,
Anthony Giorgianni

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