Greedy *******s.....

Brent P wrote:
> In article >, Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
>
>>> Absence of a gun to your head is not the definition of a free market.
>
>> You're free NOT to pay the asking price.
>
> That price isn't being set by free market conditions.

Fact is you are free to purchase what you choose that is available in
the market. You are also free to start your own car company if you want
to compete or supply a product that doesn't currently exist. Whatever
point you are attempting to make here, I'm not seeing the relevance to
the topic at hand.

>>>> The reason the prices are silly right now is there are a few people
>>>> willing to pay what I consider and outrageous price for the few
>>>> available cars.
>
>>> Didn't I just finish writing that?
>
>> So, why blame the dealer for high prices? It is just as much the fault
>> of the buyer.
>
> That's why I called the buyers who paid it morons and idiots. Try to pay
> attention.

I am but you're rather hard to follow. What exactly is your problem
with the dealer if the buyer is ultimately responsible for high prices?

>>>> Once the dealers wade through these buyers and the cars
>>>> aren't moving at the current prices they will have to lower the price to
>>>> get off the inventory.
>
>>> Maybe.
>
>> If Ford makes enough GT500s this will happen.
>
> Doesn't look like they are going to.

I doubt anyone knows the answer to this right now. Not even Ford.

>>>> And there will ultimately be a limited number of GT500s.
>
>>> There will ultimately be a limited number of Foci, just as there are a
>>> limited number of Tempos and Pintos.
>
>> You seem to think their is a difference in selling a vintage GT500
>> verses a 2007 model. Market forces are the same for both cars. If you
>> have a problem with a 2007 GT500 selling for $60k then you should have a
>> problem with a vintage one selling for $100k.
>
> Market forces are entirely different for a product that is in production
> vs. one declared collectable. Any auction house should be able to explain
> the difference. And yes, I don't think the vintage ones are worth a 100K.
> And once the baby boomers start dying off they won't be any more.

You're having a very hard time understanding the relationship between
supply and demand and their effects on pricing. When those baby boomers
start dying what happens to demand? What happens to supply? Then what
happens to pricing? Get it now? The same thing is happening with the
2007 GT500. High demand for a limited supply means higher prices.
Whether it is GT500s, rare paintings, Nike shoes or gasoline the same
principle applies.

>>>> A vintage
>>>> GT500 falls under the same supply and demand forces as a 2007 GT500.
>
>>> No it doesn't by the very fact the 2007 GT500 is in production. There
>>> will never be another '67 GT500, only less.
>
>> They both fall under the same principle of supply and demand. In a few
>> months there will never be another 2007 GT500, only less.
>
> In a year's time you can say that. But there is a free market of vintage
> cars because they trade hands privately and nobody is controlling supply.
> Let's say Bob and Frank have identical '67 GT500s. Bob needs money bad,
> Frank doesn't. Frank is asking a $110K, Bob needs the money sooner and
> undercuts Frank, you buy Bob's car for $102K. That doesn't happen in the
> new car game when a dealer just has one or two of a car that has any kind
> of demand for it and won't get any more. They, like Frank, can just sit
> and wait until someone will pay what they ask. They don't have to move
> the cars, they can just let them sit and wait for the payoff.

What happens if a dealer never lowers the price and the car never sells?
Do you think he will sit on the car for 20 years or maybe forever? If
there is no buyer for the asking price it won't sell, period. The price
will be lowered until a buyer is found. The demand for GT500s will
fluctuate over time and so will the price.

Everything you stated above involves a seller, a buyer and a demand for
the product. Whatever motivates a particular buyer and seller is what
sets the price. If the owner of a vintage GT500 lowers the price of his
car to $50k when the average market value is, say, $100k then guess what
will happen? The demand for HIS car will skyrocket. If enough buyers
find out about it then they will push the price up and send it to near
the market value. The rules of supply and demand applies to ANYTHING
that is sold in a competitive market.

>>>> You and I are no different from Ford. We all will take the
>>>> highest price for whatever item we are selling.
>
>>> I would weigh permantly ****ing off customers and getting customers to
>>> look at vehicles from other manufacturers into the equation. I would
>>> consider those long term losses to be more important than the short term
>>> gain. But hey, I am not chairman of Ford as it loses billions every
>>> quarter. The short term thinking seems to be working out well for them
>>> don't you think?
>
>> EVERY dealer does what Ford is doing when they have a super hot limited
>> production vehicle. It is what every business does when they have a
>> chance to maximize profits. I do it every chance I get.
>
> So you screw over every ignorant customer that walks in your door? Where
> do you draw the line on maximizing profits? Where's the line? Or is there
> even a line?

Are you going to turn down your next raise? If not then YOU are
maximizing your profits. Why chastise Ford, or any business for that
matter, that is doing the same thing you are? Your position seems a
little hypocritical to me. It is the dealer's right to apply any
marketing strategy they choose to maximize profits. If their methods
cost them buyers then they will see a drop in demand for their products.
The fact is that the overwhelming majority of car buyers could care
less if a given dealer sold a GT500 to some idiot for $100k. All they
care about is what Ford is charging THEM.

>> Every time you
>> accept a raise you do it too. Ford loosing money right now isn't a
>> result of overcharging for their vehicles. They need desirable
>> products, IMO. Most people (in fact, nearly all of them) in this
>> country could care less what Ford gets for a GT500. They only care
>> about what Ford gets from THEM.
>
> My father had a bad chevy once. He didn't get treated well by the chevy
> dealer either. That was in 1981. He will never buy a GM car again. Since
> 1981 no matter what GM makes it doesn't matter, won't even walk into the
> dealership. That's what I am getting at.

And by his choice he is ever so slightly effecting the demand for Chevy
products. If this occurs with enough buyers then Chevy will see a drop
in demand. Not buying a product is the consumer's way of letting their
voice be heard.

> If you are always seeking to maximize profits now you are going to need a
> constant supply of new customers to make up for the ones who later
> learned better or felt you were trying to screw them and walked out the
> door and bought from someone else. Maximizing profits in the short term
> carries a great deal of risk for the long term. Unlike you apparently, I
> would consider that.

There is one huge fault in your logic here. You are assuming every
buyer is dissatisfied with the transaction. Do you think the guy that
paid $60k for his 2007 GT500 is ****ed off at Ford? I bet he is driving
around with a big grin on his face. I bet most people that buy a new
car will say they paid a fair price. Why would they buy a new vehicle
otherwise? There are too many choices for the consumer in the car/truck
market for someone to feel they were overcharged. Once again, supply
and demand forces will keep prices in check.

>>>> I don't fault the
>>>> dealer for getting the highest price they can command. It is the way
>>>> capitalism works.
>
>>> Yes, capitalism in practice is rarely free market. It's about
>>> manipulating markets and creating monopolies really.
>
>> It's about beating your competition and making your products desirable.
>
> The beating your competition part is part I was refering to. For example,
> microsoft's practices.

If you don't like Microsoft then buy an Apple or use Linux. If
Microsoft ****es off enough people then they will loose market share.
In the end, it is the consumer that makes or breaks Microsoft or any
other company.

>>>> I will be ****ed off at Ford if they don't produce
>>>> the number of units they have stated.
>
>>> Which is exactly what will happen as people end up buying something else
>>> because Ford dealers wanted an extra 20 grand.
>
>> They won't want an extra $20k if the cars are backing up on their lots
>> unsold. IMO, this will happen if Ford makes the number of GT500s they
>> have stated.
>
> If they don't cancel it for it lack of orders.

That is one of Ford's options.