A Cars forum. AutoBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AutoBanter forum » Auto newsgroups » Simulators
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Need for Speed mmo



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old March 20th 10, 02:38 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
rcgldr[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Need for Speed mmo

> It was a wink to text based adventures. My point is that
> if you dumb down the physics too much you'll lose the essence
> of racing.


I worded that badly. The physics wasn't simplified, but my guess
is that digital inputs (keyboard, gamepad) are filtered and
perhaps "enhanced" (similar to what Live For Speed does) before
being fed into the physics engine.



Ads
  #12  
Old March 20th 10, 08:28 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
APLer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Need for Speed mmo

"rcgldr" > wrote in
:

>>> The physics is simplified, with peformance just a bit slower than
>>> Most Wanted or Carbon. One of the goals was to allow for keyboard
>>> or gamepad play, although normal controllers such as joysticks
>>> or wheels will also work.

>
>> That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

>
> I should have stated that digital control inputs are simplified, not
> the physics.
>
> The way this is done is to modulate control inputs based the frequency
> and duration of button presses. Some games implement the equivalent of
> a steering assist when a digital controller is used. Note that Live
> For Speed, a sim-oriented racing game, still supports keyboard play
> although a wheel and pedals are recommended. At one time, Live For
> Speed keyboard players had an advantage because the game's steering
> assist was too close to perfect.
>

So there are keyboard cheats in other words? Pass. If it involves
anything more complex than <- for left -> for right up for accelerate,
down for brake and separate keys for shifting up and down one gear, all
as non-repeating keys, it's not legit IMHO. I've used both and found
that a wheel *is* faster and easier than a keyboard without accelerators.
Time to give all keyboard users a Model T interface IMHO.<g>

> For most games, this is a front end process. Digital control inputs
> are filtered and "enhanced" via the equivalent of a steering assist,
> similar to the one in Nascar Racing Season 2003,


No idea what you're talking about there - I don't *do* NASCAR period.
Real life, simulation anything. (well *maybe* something like a Smurf
Massacre or Kill Saddam clone, but that's it).

define what you mean by "enhanced" please. That word in isolation has as
much meaning as "reform" does.

> before being fed into the
> physics engine, which is shared by both digital and analog control
> inputs.
>


Did you get this from their website itself or is this your own wording?


  #13  
Old March 21st 10, 07:15 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
rcgldr[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Need for Speed mmo

>> I should have stated that digital control inputs are simplified, not
>> the physics.


>> The way this is done is to modulate control inputs based the frequency
>> and duration of button presses. Some games implement the equivalent of
>> a steering assist when a digital controller is used. Note that Live
>> For Speed, a sim-oriented racing game, still supports keyboard play
>> although a wheel and pedals are recommended. At one time, Live For
>> Speed keyboard players had an advantage because the game's steering
>> assist was too close to perfect.


> So there are keyboard cheats in other words?


In the case of Live For Speed keyboard players had an advantage before
they detuned the steering assist.

> If it involves > anything more complex than <- for left -> for right
> up for accelerate, down for brake


Think of it as the equivalent of pulse width modulation as used for
brushless DC motors, or fuel injectors on a car. The current or fuel
is pulsed out in tiny bursts at some frequency to result in some
average rate of flow. The duration of each burst and the frequency
determines the amount of input the player is trying to achieve.

>> For most games, this is a front end process. Digital control inputs
>> are filtered and "enhanced" via the equivalent of a steering assist,
>> similar to the one in Nascar Racing Season 2003,


> No idea what you're talking about there - I don't *do* NASCAR period.
> define what you mean by "enhanced" please.


Think of it as the equivalent of a semi "auto-pilot".

As an example of an "enhancement", a players actual steering inputs would
only have to be somewhat close to ideal, and then the game would modify
these inputs to make them very close to ideal. Somewhat like having
steering speed sensitivity set to 100%, where holding down left arrow
or holding the steering wheel left at some fixed position would end
up targeting some rate of cornering load in a turn as opposed to
targeting a radius. Sort of like the pressure senstive stick on a F-16
fighter, where the pilot's control input is to request a rate of roll
or pitch (g force), and the onboard electronics translate this into
actual surface defelection based on airspeed.

>> before being fed into the physics engine, which is shared by both
>> digital and analog control inputs.


> Did you get this from their website itself or is this your own wording?


My own wording, although braking and steering assists, where the game
brakes and steers for the player can be found in a few sim-oriented games,
as options for a player new to racing games.


  #14  
Old March 24th 10, 10:21 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
APLer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Need for Speed mmo

"rcgldr" > wrote in
:


Sorry for the delay. I sometimes delay my more involved posts a few days
for a break in my other postings/replies.

>>> I should have stated that digital control inputs are simplified, not
>>> the physics.

>
>>> The way this is done is to modulate control inputs based the
>>> frequency and duration of button presses. Some games implement the
>>> equivalent of a steering assist when a digital controller is used.
>>> Note that Live For Speed, a sim-oriented racing game, still supports
>>> keyboard play although a wheel and pedals are recommended. At one
>>> time, Live For Speed keyboard players had an advantage because the
>>> game's steering assist was too close to perfect.

>
>> So there are keyboard cheats in other words?

>
> In the case of Live For Speed keyboard players had an advantage before
> they detuned the steering assist.
>
>> If it involves > anything more complex than <- for left -> for right
>> up for accelerate, down for brake

>
> Think of it as the equivalent of pulse width modulation as used for
> brushless DC motors, or fuel injectors on a car. The current or fuel
> is pulsed out in tiny bursts at some frequency to result in some
> average rate of flow. The duration of each burst and the frequency
> determines the amount of input the player is trying to achieve.
>

So it's a key repeater you're saying?


>>> For most games, this is a front end process. Digital control inputs
>>> are filtered and "enhanced" via the equivalent of a steering assist,
>>> similar to the one in Nascar Racing Season 2003,

>
>> No idea what you're talking about there - I don't *do* NASCAR period.
>> define what you mean by "enhanced" please.

>
> Think of it as the equivalent of a semi "auto-pilot".
>
> As an example of an "enhancement", a players actual steering inputs
> would only have to be somewhat close to ideal, and then the game would
> modify these inputs to make them very close to ideal. Somewhat like
> having steering speed sensitivity set to 100%, where holding down left
> arrow or holding the steering wheel left at some fixed position would
> end up targeting some rate of cornering load in a turn as opposed to
> targeting a radius. Sort of like the pressure senstive stick on a F-16
> fighter, where the pilot's control input is to request a rate of roll
> or pitch (g force), and the onboard electronics translate this into
> actual surface defelection based on airspeed.
>

Now that's just plain cheating. Like the recent addition of speed
proportional steering that has appeared in high end cars. If you
mean the amount of steering lock is determined by the maximum lateral
g's at the apex speed.

>>> before being fed into the physics engine, which is shared by both
>>> digital and analog control inputs.

>
>> Did you get this from their website itself or is this your own
>> wording?

>
> My own wording, although braking and steering assists, where the game
> brakes and steers for the player can be found in a few sim-oriented
> games, as options for a player new to racing games.
>

I much preferred it when such things were limited to separate background
programs. Is that the case still or is it actually built into the
software?

I'd much prefer it if you would use plain language and detailed explanations
than the marketing terms you've been using. I still am unsure enough about
your meaning that I'm not at all sure my reply is even relevant to what you
replied with.

Are there league restrictions placed on these cheats at all? or is it just a
free-for-all?
  #15  
Old March 25th 10, 07:23 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
rcgldr[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Need for Speed mmo

>> Think of it as the equivalent of pulse width modulation as used for
>> brushless DC motors, or fuel injectors on a car. The current or fuel
>> is pulsed out in tiny bursts at some frequency to result in some
>> average rate of flow. The duration of each burst and the frequency
>> determines the amount of input the player is trying to achieve.


> So it's a key repeater you're saying?


The player has to do the key repeating in this case.

I was explaining how button "steering" works, with just filtering,
but without the assist. Say the tires have 20 degrees of steering
angle to either side. To get an average of 10 degree left angle, the
left key must be tapped so that it's ends up being pressed down
50% of the time. Without any filtering the steering would instantly
transtion between 0 degrees and 20 degrees, a 10 degree average,
but with +/- 10 degree variation. What flitering does is slow the
response rate of the steering to key presses, usually some type of
ramp up, where the initial rate of movement is small, and then
increases the longer that a key (or button) is held down, so that the
steering angle doesn't oscillate much if the key is tapped reasonably
fast. Using my example, the end result with filtering might be a 10
degree average with a +/- .5 degree variation if the key is tapped
fast enough (as opposed to a +/- 10 degree variation without
any filtering).

>>> No idea what you're talking about there - I don't *do* NASCAR period.
>>> define what you mean by "enhanced" please.

>>
>> Think of it as the equivalent of a semi "auto-pilot".
>>
>> As an example of an "enhancement", a players actual steering inputs
>> would only have to be somewhat close to ideal, and then the game would
>> modify these inputs to make them very close to ideal.


> Now that's just plain cheating. Like the recent addition of speed
> proportional steering that has appeared in high end cars. If you
> mean the amount of steering lock is determined by the maximum lateral
> g's at the apex speed.


That's speed sensitive steering. Set to 100%, then steering input
becomes lateral g input at all speeds.

Steering assist is where the game steers for you. At 100% you don't do
any steering all, the game does it all for you and you're just along
for the ride. How perfect the steering assist is at 100% depends on
the game. Some racing games setup the assist so that lap times are
a bit slower if all the assists are on, while others may produce
close to record lap times.

Another variation on steering assist is that the game requires that
you at least press left or right in order to start the car steering,
but then takes over after that. Depending on the level of assist,
it will enhance your steering inputs so that they more closely follow
the ideal line. The game still steers for you, but you have to press
left or right to initiate the steering, and as long as you hold left
or right down, the game will do most of the steering for you,
adjusting the actual control inputs based on speed, conering radius,
bank angle, grip level, ... . In the case of Live For Speed, the
steering assist for digital contoller was too good, so they backed
it off a bit to less than ideal, and the player generally has to
tap the left or right arrow keys in order to achieve optimum lap
times.

In the case of Need For Speed Shift, digital steering doesn't work
well at all. Player with gamepads have to use the joystick to steer.
Shift does have steering assist, and setting it to low seems to help
some players. Setting it to high generally hurts lap times. The
braking assist and/or ABS on generally hurts lap times.

In the case of Need For Speed World, digital steering works OK, but
I suspect that analog steering will produce better lap times, based
on my experience with the Beta tests.

In a strange twist, most of the sim-oriented games have steering and
braking assists, while most arcade racing games do not (other than
filtering and some enhacement of digital inputs).

>>>> before being fed into the physics engine, which is shared by both
>>>> digital and analog control inputs.

>>
>>> Did you get this from their website itself or is this your own
>>> wording?

>>
>> My own wording, although braking and steering assists, where the game
>> brakes and steers for the player can be found in a few sim-oriented
>> games, as options for a player new to racing games.
>>

> I much preferred it when such things were limited to separate background
> programs. Is that the case still or is it actually built into the
> software?


The assists need to be built into the game, since only the game would
know the conering radius, bank angle, and grip level at each section of
track, which is required in order to steer for the player. Filtering to
smooth out digital inputs could be done outside of the game.

> Are there league restrictions placed on these cheats at all?


Depends on the game. On some racing games, a race server can restrict the
options, such as no assists, and limiting the view option to in car only.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2008 Goodwood Festival of Speed 26 of 50; 2003 Bentley Speed 8 front side.JPG (1/1) Leroy Curtis Auto Photos 0 August 23rd 08 05:26 PM
2008 Goodwood Festival of Speed 26 of 50; 2003 Bentley Speed 8 front side.JPG (1/1) Leroy Curtis Car Show Photos 0 August 23rd 08 05:26 PM
2008 Goodwood Festival of Speed; 1930 Bentley Speed Six `Old Number 2'.JPG (1/1) Leroy Curtis Car Show Photos 0 August 17th 08 11:13 AM
Goodwood Festival of Speed 2007; 1929 Bentley Speed Six `Old Number One'.JPG (1/1) Leroy Curtis Car Show Photos 0 July 20th 07 01:09 PM
Goodwood Festival of Speed 2007; 1929 Bentley Speed Six `Old Number One'.JPG (1/1) Leroy Curtis Auto Photos 0 July 20th 07 12:04 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AutoBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.