Bankruptcy and Reorganization for Detroit?

Have the people who support this lost their minds?

Consumers know reorganizations sometimes fail. Issues concerning
future availability of parts, resale value, and whether anyone will be
around to honor their warranties will be considered by them before
making a purchase from an automaker in bankruptcy reorganization.

Durable goods manufacturers cannot be operated successfully during
bankruptcy reorganization.

Taxpayer money cannot bail out Detroit. Only consumer money, spent on
the purchase of Detroit's vehicles, can bail them out. It appears way
too late for that.

--
http://www.cafepress.com/logical_talk_3
http://www.cafepress.com/logical_talk_6
http://www.cafepress.com/logical_talk_8

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:45:45 -0500, edward ohare
> wrote:

>Have the people who support this lost their minds?
>
>Consumers know reorganizations sometimes fail. Issues concerning
>future availability of parts, resale value, and whether anyone will be
>around to honor their warranties will be considered by them before
>making a purchase from an automaker in bankruptcy reorganization.
>
>Durable goods manufacturers cannot be operated successfully during
>bankruptcy reorganization.
>
>Taxpayer money cannot bail out Detroit. Only consumer money, spent on
>the purchase of Detroit's vehicles, can bail them out. It appears way
>too late for that.

No, its not.

Here's how to sell Detroit Iron:

1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.

2) The huge overhead of cars made in the USA incurred from the income tax is
removed, and "Detroit Iron" gets really cheap.

3) Replace the income tax with a consumption tax (don't whine about the poor -
they'll get compensation for the basic necessities of life).

4) The prices of cars built in this country are taxed back up to where they
used to be via the consumption tax.

5) People now have a whale of a lot more money by the amount of their income
tax witholding. Some will buy a new car, and that will be more than there were
before since they have all this extra money.

6) The cars _not_ built in this country, which were not experiencing the burden
of paying US income tax, will not experience the lowering of their price.

7) The cars _not_ built in this country will then be taxed by the amount of the
consumption tax.

8) The people that have decided to use their windfall $$$ from not paying
income tax to buy a car are way more likely to buy Detroit Iron, since it's
going to be waaaaay cheaper than the cars built other than in the USA.

6)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...anufactu rers

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:06:15 GMT, en't aclue
wrote:

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...anufactu rers


Basically probably OK, but I easily found several errors, and there
are probably more.

American Motors is listed as 1966-1987 and Rambler 1958-1969 but
actually the company American Motors was formed by a merger of Nash
and Hudson in 1954 and was the manufacturer of Rambler.

DeSoto was never a freestanding company, but instead was a brand of
Chrysler Corp. Oldsmobile is listed as through 2004 but it ceased to
exist as a company in... what, maybe 1915 when it went into GM.

Maxwell is listed through 1925, but at that point it was actually
Maxwell-Chalmers, and was renamed Chrysler... two years after the
company built the first Chrysler.

But anyway, your apparent point that failure of US automakers is
nothing new is well proven.

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 00:27:14 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:


>1) Repeal the income tax - ALL of it.


Well, we just doubled the federal debt in the last 8 years with mere
cuts in income taxes, so I suppose getting rid of income tax
completely wil.... I know... it will produce more total tax
revenue!!!! Ronald Reagan taken to the max!

>
>2) The huge overhead of cars made in the USA incurred from the income tax is
>removed, and "Detroit Iron" gets really cheap.


Uh... do you realize that Detroit is losing money and therefor isn't
paying any income tax?


>3) Replace the income tax with a consumption tax (don't whine about the poor -
>they'll get compensation for the basic necessities of life).
>
>4) The prices of cars built in this country are taxed back up to where they
>used to be via the consumption tax.


This is cute. The government is broke and your solution is merely to
the methods of collecting the same amount.



>6) The cars _not_ built in this country, which were not experiencing the burden
>of paying US income tax, will not experience the lowering of their price.
>
>7) The cars _not_ built in this country will then be taxed by the amount of the
>consumption tax.


Wow. There's going to be a heck of a tax on Chevrolets, Fords, and
Dodges built in Canada and Mexico! And no tax at all on Hondas,
Toyotas, Nissans, and Subarus built in the US.



>
>8) The people that have decided to use their windfall $$$ from not paying
>income tax to buy a car are way more likely to buy Detroit Iron, since it's
>going to be waaaaay cheaper than the cars built other than in the USA.
>
>6)

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:06:15 GMT, en't aclue wrote:

>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...anufactu rers

Interesting. Use CTRL-F to bring up the search, enter the year number, and see
what car company was started up or went out of business that year. Real
intersting.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:43:52 -0500, edward ohare
> wrote:


>Wow. There's going to be a heck of a tax on Chevrolets, Fords, and
>Dodges built in Canada and Mexico! And no tax at all on Hondas,
>Toyotas, Nissans, and Subarus built in the US.

Should be a great incentive for all those American companies that moved to
Mexico and Canada to move their manufacturing right back here, eh?

That's what we want...

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:56:59 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:

>On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:43:52 -0500, edward ohare
> wrote:
>
>
>>Wow. There's going to be a heck of a tax on Chevrolets, Fords, and
>>Dodges built in Canada and Mexico! And no tax at all on Hondas,
>>Toyotas, Nissans, and Subarus built in the US.
>
>Should be a great incentive for all those American companies that moved to
>Mexico and Canada to move their manufacturing right back here, eh?


A vast number of our current problems - housing boom followed by bust,
the truck boom followed by bust, high gas prices (again followed by a
huge drop, which isn't a problem of itself as much as it is indicative
of other problems) - have been caused by government distortion of the
markets. And your solution is to distort the markets more.


>That's what we want...


Who is we? Consumers have already shown what they want is cheaper
better cars, which are built either overseas or in the US by
**efficient** US companies like Honda America, Toyota USA, etc.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:10:26 -0500, edward ohare
> wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:56:59 GMT, Dave Head > wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:43:52 -0500, edward ohare
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Wow. There's going to be a heck of a tax on Chevrolets, Fords, and
>>>Dodges built in Canada and Mexico! And no tax at all on Hondas,
>>>Toyotas, Nissans, and Subarus built in the US.
>>
>>Should be a great incentive for all those American companies that moved to
>>Mexico and Canada to move their manufacturing right back here, eh?
>
>
>A vast number of our current problems - housing boom followed by bust,
>the truck boom followed by bust, high gas prices (again followed by a
>huge drop, which isn't a problem of itself as much as it is indicative
>of other problems) - have been caused by government distortion of the
>markets. And your solution is to distort the markets more.

More like correcting a mistake. The income tax is a mistake - always has been.
>
>
>>That's what we want...
>
>
>Who is we? Consumers have already shown what they want is cheaper
>better cars, which are built either overseas or in the US by
>**efficient** US companies like Honda America, Toyota USA, etc.

On 2008-11-23, edward ohare > wrote:

> Taxpayer money cannot bail out Detroit. Only consumer money, spent on
> the purchase of Detroit's vehicles, can bail them out. It appears way
> too late for that.

After the government gave the bankers a trillion or more why shouldn't
everyone line up for something? It's really how this country has worked
for decades coming out in the open. If you want to be successful you
have to use the government to your favor. Maybe it's only regulations
that will cripple your competition. Maybe it's tax laws that force
family businesses to sell out. There's all sorts of ways that companies
get their success through government. It's just more out in the open
now.