The Art of Haggling and Other Questions About the Civic Hybrid

Hello All!
My wife and I are very close to purchasing an '05 or '03 Civic Hybrid.
Although this is not the first car my wife has purchased, it will
essentially be the first I have purchased. I was wondering if anyone
can offer any tips on haggling with the Honda dealership. We feel this
is an important but somewhat unsavory part of purchasing a car. (I
know that some people view haggling as a sport - I hope they will sound
off here!) There may be some general rules of thumb to follow, but I
don't know them and would like any tips anyone could give. We'd like
to get them to come down off the price a bit - I think the sticker on
the '05 is around $20,000.

I was also curious to see if anyone knew the answers to the questions
that the salesman couldn't answer, specifically:
- What happens to the batteries after they are replaced? The
ecofriendly nature of this car is a big selling point for us. But the
fate of dead batteries is unknown to us right now. Would hate to think
they'd end up in a landfill or something.
- Has anyone any expereince with problems in extreme weather
conditions? (tough starts in extreme cold, for example)
- Can some one explain, in as plain a language as possible, under what
circumstances the auto stop feature occurs in the engine? My wife and
I read a little about it in the manual on the test drive, but we're a
bit confused still. Do all of the conditions listed in the manual have
to be present before the engine shuts down? Or just one or two?

Any feedback at all on this car is appreciated. Just for reference,
both of the cars we're looking at have the CVT transmission.

Have great day,
Matt

matt wrote:

> Hello All!
> My wife and I are very close to purchasing an '05 or '03 Civic Hybrid.
> Although this is not the first car my wife has purchased, it will
> essentially be the first I have purchased. I was wondering if anyone
> can offer any tips on haggling with the Honda dealership. We feel this
> is an important but somewhat unsavory part of purchasing a car. (I
> know that some people view haggling as a sport - I hope they will sound
> off here!) There may be some general rules of thumb to follow, but I
> don't know them and would like any tips anyone could give. We'd like
> to get them to come down off the price a bit - I think the sticker on
> the '05 is around $20,000.

The basics are simple. You have to be willing to walk out of a
dealership emptyhanded if you don't like the initial results.
I've been pressured with, "what can I do to see you walk out
with the keys". Then I shopped around, got some more quotes,
walked back to the dealership and got my price after looking
around.

The other thing is that you can now use Edmunds or any of the
auto services to contact multiple dealers for quotes. The Civic
Hybrid doesn't have options, so quotes should be. And don't
forget that financing is very important, unless you plan on
paying cash. Once I took an advertised factory financing special,
and the financing manager told me he was a bit miffed about it.
Something about not making anything off of it, when normal
financing deals net them decent profits.

those tips sound very good - i appreciate you taking time to answer!
any other tips from anyone would be appreciated.

First, this is not a "gotta-have" car. It's just one of several you're
looking at. And this dealer is just one of several you're visiting.
It's a mindset -- communicate it to every salesman that you talk to.

Never be afraid to say the deal isn't acceptable & head for the door.
They hate for you to leave because your deal will probably be cut at
another dealer. If they want to negotiate, they'll ask you want you
want, and may actually listen more than before. Then you use the good
info obtained from Edmunds.com and elsewhere to outline the deal you
want. If you're not prepared, you'll get screwed or be wasting
everyone's time, including your own.

Don't be afraid to leave an e-mail or phone # with the dealer even if
you walk out. Often they'll give you a call, or the manager will call.
Listen to what they have to say; research anything that sounds fishy.
You don't have to commit -- ever -- and that's your ace card.
Sometimes these contacts can go on for months.

Leading up to, DON'T BE IN A HURRY. Communicate to the dealer that you
have all the time in the world. They don't. They have rent to pay,
and more cars arriving daily. They've got to sell them at some point,
and that point isn't too far away.

Be prepared to hear the truth -- the dealer may actually be honest,
when telling you a particular vehicle is in such high demand that
they've already given you their best price. Sometimes for a specialty
vehicle, it's true. It's your choice at that point whether to pay MSRP
or many thousands above it.

Try alternative contacts at the same dealer: call the fleet manager up
(just tell the receptionist you want to talk with "the fleet manager").
Frequently they'll give you a good price, pretty much non-negotiable
in some cases, and cut through all the b.s. If they even ask if
you've been dealing with one of their salespeople, just say no. (It
helps if you haven't been to the dealer in a few weeks.)

Once you agree to buy the car, you'll be thrown into a new pit:
dealing with the "F&I" or Finance and Insurance guy. He is not your
friend. For that matter, some females I've seen in this position are
even more cold-hearted if that is possible.) If you brought your own
financing (and why didn't you?) ask if they can beat it. Sometimes
they will. Every slug of an F&I guy makes $80,000+ U.S., and does it
by screwing as many customers as possible. Know the best rate you can
get before you walk into his office, and be prepared to say 'NO' to
every fabric treatment and undercoat deal they insist that you buy.
"You should be getting this and protect your Investment -- are you
Stupid, or what?" I actually had someone tell me that. She was very,
very pretty.

I wouldn't worry about battery disposal too much, I don't think that
they are particularly toxic. No lead, mercury, cadmium. Why don't
you worry about the ton of disposable diapers your kids are going to
put into that landfill?

JM

wrote:
> "You should be getting this and protect your Investment -- are you
> Stupid, or what?" I actually had someone tell me that. She was very,
> very pretty.

heh... they wanted my girlfriend to buy an extended (7yr, only 4 were
additional) warranty for...

"only $30 more a month!"

hm... 12 mos, times 5 years, times $20. $1800? i laughed.

On 10 Feb 2005 08:43:16 -0800, "matt" > wrote:

>My wife and I are very close to purchasing an '05 or '03 Civic Hybrid.
>Although this is not the first car my wife has purchased, it will
>essentially be the first I have purchased. I was wondering if anyone
>can offer any tips on haggling with the Honda dealership.

Others have given good advice in this thread. Here are some warnings
about sly tricks.

If your wife is with you and the salesman leaves you alone in a little
office while he "checks with the sales manager", watch what you say.
Dealers have been known to bug such places so they can get hints about
how ready you really are to buy and what your price is.

Watch the guy with the adding machine! Re-check his totals. They've
been known to tell you they're knocking $ off and slip them right back
in again. Not so important if there aren't a lot of options.

Don't be a rug merchant. Haggling is all very well but don't be too
greedy. Know what the car is worth and don't ask for too large a price
cut.

Make sure your bank or credit union can't do better for you than their
finance guy. If you have cash from a personal line of credit at your
bank, don't tell the dealer. He may be giving you a deal on the car
with the intent of screwing you on the financing.

With hybrids, don't forget to factor the cost of replacement batteries
into the maintenance costs.

Then there's that 'extended warranty' business which I'll leave others
to comment on.

John Ings wrote:
> Others have given good advice in this thread. Here are some warnings
> about sly tricks.
>
> If your wife is with you and the salesman leaves you alone in a little
> office while he "checks with the sales manager", watch what you say.
> Dealers have been known to bug such places so they can get hints about
> how ready you really are to buy and what your price is.

dont buy based on monthly payments

dont fall for the "up to" scam...

salesman: how much can you afford a month?

you: bout $300

saleman: up to?

you: well, maybe $350.

theyll figure out a way to work the deal, but itll be in their favor.

SoCalMike wrote:
> John Ings wrote:
> > Others have given good advice in this thread. Here are some
warnings
> > about sly tricks.
> >
> > If your wife is with you and the salesman leaves you alone in a
little
> > office while he "checks with the sales manager", watch what you
say.
> > Dealers have been known to bug such places so they can get hints
about
> > how ready you really are to buy and what your price is.
>
> dont buy based on monthly payments
>
> dont fall for the "up to" scam...
>
> salesman: how much can you afford a month?
>
> you: bout $300
>
> saleman: up to?
>
> you: well, maybe $350.
>
> theyll figure out a way to work the deal, but itll be in their favor.

That is a great tip. 48 month loan stretched out to a 60 month loan.
I've even heard 72 month loans but this was on a certain brand of
'luxury automobile'. Financial insanity.

matt wrote:
> I was wondering if anyone
> can offer any tips on haggling with the Honda dealership.
> We'd like
> to get them to come down off the price a bit - I think the sticker on
> the '05 is around $20,000.

All of the negotiating tips were good, but I don't know if they'll be
that applicable to hybrids. According to all the media reports, hybrids
are in extremely high demand. Some dealerships are selling above MSRP
because people are willing to pay that much.

There is an excellent book on negotiating, called "You can negotiate
anything" by Herb Cohen. (http://www.herbcohenonline.com/) I see from
his web site he has a new book out. Time and information are two of
the major keys. Time being the amount of time you are willing and able
to put into it. If you want the car by this weekend, you will pay more.
If you are willing to visit many dealerships and ask many questions,
you will get a better price. Obviously your time is worth something,
so there is a trade-off to be made. Information includes what other
dealers are selling the car for, what their inventory level is, etc., etc.

Good questions about the batteries. I don't know the answer, but I
would be very surprised if Honda doesn't have a plan. Whether that
plan is carried out is another matter.

Good luck.
Dan


(This account is not used for email.)

"matt" ) writes:
> Hello All!
> My wife and I are very close to purchasing an '05 or '03 Civic Hybrid.
> Although this is not the first car my wife has purchased, it will
> essentially be the first I have purchased. I was wondering if anyone
> can offer any tips on haggling with the Honda dealership. We feel this
> is an important but somewhat unsavory part of purchasing a car. (I
> know that some people view haggling as a sport - I hope they will sound
> off here!) There may be some general rules of thumb to follow, but I
> don't know them and would like any tips anyone could give. We'd like
> to get them to come down off the price a bit - I think the sticker on
> the '05 is around $20,000.
>
> I was also curious to see if anyone knew the answers to the questions
> that the salesman couldn't answer, specifically:
> - What happens to the batteries after they are replaced? The
> ecofriendly nature of this car is a big selling point for us. But the
> fate of dead batteries is unknown to us right now. Would hate to think
> they'd end up in a landfill or something.
> - Has anyone any expereince with problems in extreme weather
> conditions? (tough starts in extreme cold, for example)
> - Can some one explain, in as plain a language as possible, under what
> circumstances the auto stop feature occurs in the engine? My wife and
> I read a little about it in the manual on the test drive, but we're a
> bit confused still. Do all of the conditions listed in the manual have
> to be present before the engine shuts down? Or just one or two?
>
> Any feedback at all on this car is appreciated. Just for reference,
> both of the cars we're looking at have the CVT transmission.
>
> Have great day,
> Matt
>