audi and kaipola ski jump advertisiement - climbing an icy hill

clifto wrote:
>
> Erik-Jan Geniets wrote:
> >> "Minor Exceptions"?? 6mm spikes??? My Vette could make it up that
> >> hill with freakin' spikes!
> >
> > You forgot it was whinched up.......so yes it is a fraud... as most
> > commercials are.
>
> The article claims "back then and this time, both Audi models drove up
> the ski jump under their own power; they were not pulled." I believe it;
> I just don't see any use for being able to climb ski jumps in first gear
> with special tires.


Me neither.....do not have a crane or chopper to put me there in the
first place.....;-(
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.

In article >,
Erik-Jan Geniets > wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Erik-Jan Geniets > wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Baker wrote:
> > > >
> > > > In article >,
> > > > Erik-Jan Geniets > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 223rem wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pooh Bear wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >>I saw this advertisement from Audi on their second records on
> > > > > > >>driving
> > > > > > >>up Kaipola ski jump in Finland. It was a rather impressive
> > > > > > >>achievement
> > > > > > >>and photos. I could not believe that a car can climb a hill with
> > > > > > >>slope
> > > > > > >>of 80 degrees,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 37.5 degrees actually.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I wonder if the AWD was really useful at that angle. RWD
> > > > > > should have been enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > At this angle, in terrain (no snow or ice) you will need grip.
> > > > > Without AWD or 4WD you will be left with a spinning (rear) wheel.
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > Erik-Jan.
> > > >
> > > > You really should study physics a little...
> > >
> > > Why? We are talking about an angle of 37.5 degrees here which can be
> > > done with most 4x4's with low range T-case. On tarmac you will even
> > > succeed without spinning wheels.
> >
> > Your missing the point. At 37.5 degrees, almost the entire weight of the
> > vehicle will be on the rear wheels. Take a wheelbase of 8' for example
> > and assume a 50-50 weight distribution. If the centre of mass is located
> > at 8/2 * 80% = 3.2 feet, then the entire weight of the vehicle would be
> > on the rear wheels on a 80% or 37.5 degree slope.
>
> My experience with a hill nearby, (about 25 to 30 degrees) grassland.
> Easy to climb with 4wd engaged, no spinning wheels. In 2wd mode the car
> won't move an inch, the rear wheels were spinning though (LSD).
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
and tell us the results...

>
>
>
> > Hence the OP was suggesting that only RWD would be necessary.
> >
> > --
> > Alan Baker
> > Vancouver, British Columbia
> > "If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
> > to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
> > if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Alan Baker wrote:

>
> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
> and tell us the results...
>
Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
;-(
Here they a http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.

"Erik-Jan Geniets" > wrote in message
...
> Alan Baker wrote:
>> I seriously doubt that the hill is 25 to 30 degrees. Use an inclinometer
>> and tell us the results...
> Two inclinometers mounted. One to prevent me from rolling sideways and
> the other one for the driving direction or rolling backwards if you like
> ;-(
> Here they a http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

And the round goes to Erik-Jan. Really Alan, I have climbed 45 degree
slopes in my Jeep, and for sure my front wheels were actually on the ground
and contributed to the climb. I don't bother trying it in 2WD, lol. It is
just not that big of a problem with a capable vehicle.
Tomes

"Erik-Jan Geniets" wrote

> Here they a http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm

Interesting picture.
I've never seen an clinometer of this kind,
but I can explain how it works:
Outer upper scale means up hill in percent (not grade),
outer lower scale down hill,
inner upper scale acceleration,
inner lower scale negative acc. (braking).

I.e. calculate what slope is equivalent to 3m/s^2:
3/9.8 (1g=9.8m/s^2) = 0.306 (the sinus of the angle)
gradient (in percent) is the tangens =0.32.

The words "gut - schwach - schlecht" (good-week-bad)
are for indicating braking performance (on flat terrain).
But of course not applicable for modern cars

Cheers,

Thomas

"Thomas Schäfer" wrote:
>
> "Erik-Jan Geniets" wrote
>
> > Here they a http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
>
> Interesting picture.
> I've never seen an clinometer of this kind,
> but I can explain how it works:
> Outer upper scale means up hill in percent (not grade),
> outer lower scale down hill,
> inner upper scale acceleration,
> inner lower scale negative acc. (braking).

Yes, thanks. The questions on that old page are as old. 2002 I Guess.
In the mean time I figured out how it works.
The up and downhill percentages are very accurate compared to roadsigns
as long as you do not accelerate or brake.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.


> I.e. calculate what slope is equivalent to 3m/s^2:
> 3/9.8 (1g=9.8m/s^2) = 0.306 (the sinus of the angle)
> gradient (in percent) is the tangens =0.32.
>
> The words "gut - schwach - schlecht" (good-week-bad)
> are for indicating braking performance (on flat terrain).
> But of course not applicable for modern cars

In article >,
Erik-Jan Geniets > wrote:

> "Thomas Schäfer" wrote:
> >
> > "Erik-Jan Geniets" wrote
> >
> > > Here they a http://www.fotograaf.com/trooper/image.htm
> >
> > Interesting picture.
> > I've never seen an clinometer of this kind,
> > but I can explain how it works:
> > Outer upper scale means up hill in percent (not grade),
> > outer lower scale down hill,
> > inner upper scale acceleration,
> > inner lower scale negative acc. (braking).
>
> Yes, thanks. The questions on that old page are as old. 2002 I Guess.
> In the mean time I figured out how it works.
> The up and downhill percentages are very accurate compared to roadsigns
> as long as you do not accelerate or brake.
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

So I'm betting you were climbing a hill with a 20 - 30 *percent* grade...

>
>
> > I.e. calculate what slope is equivalent to 3m/s^2:
> > 3/9.8 (1g=9.8m/s^2) = 0.306 (the sinus of the angle)
> > gradient (in percent) is the tangens =0.32.
> >
> > The words "gut - schwach - schlecht" (good-week-bad)
> > are for indicating braking performance (on flat terrain).
> > But of course not applicable for modern cars

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Alan Baker wrote:

>
> So I'm betting you were climbing a hill with a 20 - 30 *percent* grade...


Yes, also. Turacher Höhe in Austria, old Vulcano in Kärnten. Tarmac in
the winter. Some snow/ice here and there. 23 percent. At the base off
the mountain there is a road sign in German which reads "4 wheel drive
car's only"
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.

In article >,
Erik-Jan Geniets > wrote:

> Alan Baker wrote:
>
> >
> > So I'm betting you were climbing a hill with a 20 - 30 *percent* grade...
>
>
> Yes, also. Turacher Höhe in Austria, old Vulcano in Kärnten. Tarmac in
> the winter. Some snow/ice here and there. 23 percent. At the base off
> the mountain there is a road sign in German which reads "4 wheel drive
> car's only"
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

And on a 20 *percent* grade, your vehicle's weight is going to be pretty
equally distributed on both axles.

On an 80% grade, the Audi's weight is going to be almost entirely on its
*rear* wheels.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Alan Baker wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Erik-Jan Geniets > wrote:
>
> > Alan Baker wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > So I'm betting you were climbing a hill with a 20 - 30 *percent* grade...
> >
> >
> > Yes, also. Turacher Höhe in Austria, old Vulcano in Kärnten. Tarmac in
> > the winter. Some snow/ice here and there. 23 percent. At the base off
> > the mountain there is a road sign in German which reads "4 wheel drive
> > car's only"
> > Kind regards,
> > Erik-Jan.
>
> And on a 20 *percent* grade, your vehicle's weight is going to be pretty
> equally distributed on both axles.

I guess so with the engine in front.
Erik-Jan.



> On an 80% grade, the Audi's weight is going to be almost entirely on its
> *rear* wheels.
>