Rebuilt engines - good or bad?

I'm looking for an older, inexpensive station wagon (Corolla or Camry,
if I can find one). A lot of the cars I'm seeing have rebuilt engines,
even when they're not that old ( a friend is selling a 1997 Escort with
97,000 miles and a rebuilt engine and transmission).

Is a rebuilt engine a plus or minus? Does it mean the car had problems
or saw a lot of use, and needed a new engine? Or does it mean I'm
getting a new engine with plenty of life? My father always told me not
to get used cars with rebuilt engines, but some of the cars talk about
rebuilds as if they're good things.

SB

wrote:
> I'm looking for an older, inexpensive station wagon (Corolla or Camry,
> if I can find one). A lot of the cars I'm seeing have rebuilt engines,
> even when they're not that old ( a friend is selling a 1997 Escort with
> 97,000 miles and a rebuilt engine and transmission).
>
> Is a rebuilt engine a plus or minus? Does it mean the car had problems
> or saw a lot of use, and needed a new engine? Or does it mean I'm
> getting a new engine with plenty of life? My father always told me not
> to get used cars with rebuilt engines, but some of the cars talk about
> rebuilds as if they're good things.
>
> SB

Depends who rebuilt it; a factory rebuild is a lovely thing, but
probably costs more than the entire car at the age they are usually
necessary. On the other hand, anecdotal evidence is that the number of
early deaths in engines that were just genericaly "rebuilt", or even
just had something like a rebuilt head swapped in, is pretty high. As
in the Corvair I bought cheap, the previous owner having busted the big
end of a con rod and put the rod right through the crankcase, about 50
miles after installing rebuilt heads.

Having once purchased a rebuilt head from a rebuilder with an excellent
rep in the state and having seen the amount of metal shavings I was
able to flush out of the oil passages (thanks to my paranoid nature)
it's no surprise. On the other hand, when I tossed that head back and
subsequently got one from PAECO (I'm happy to name names in a good way)
in Georgia which looked like it had come from a NASA clean room, it
lasted forever. On the other other hand, the price of that head, well
see my first sentence.

Anyway, I see a lot of the Japanese cars getting not rebuilt engines,
but just lower mileage engines and transmissions from junkyards.
They're typically warranteed for a month or 90 days or some such, but
you end up eating the labor unless your mechanic stands behind it. I've
gone that route a few times, and not had the greatest luck, but it's at
least halfway affordable even if you have bad luck of the draw and most
people seem to have better luck at it than I. Eventually I got
everything all working fine, btw, for the past 4 years.

Anyway again, as you suggested, I wonder myself whether major
rebuilding is a good sign, in general. It's nice if a car hasw been
meticulously maintained and repaired, but these cars that are
advertised with new everything as a good thing remind me of somebody
with a long medical history, not exactly a sign of good health.

On 3 Jan 2007 11:00:14 -0800, wrote:

>I'm looking for an older, inexpensive station wagon (Corolla or Camry,
>if I can find one). A lot of the cars I'm seeing have rebuilt engines,
>even when they're not that old ( a friend is selling a 1997 Escort with
>97,000 miles and a rebuilt engine and transmission).
>
>Is a rebuilt engine a plus or minus? Does it mean the car had problems
>or saw a lot of use, and needed a new engine? Or does it mean I'm
>getting a new engine with plenty of life? My father always told me not
>to get used cars with rebuilt engines, but some of the cars talk about
>rebuilds as if they're good things.
>
>SB

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was to replace the words
"rebuilt" or "restored" with f^&*'ed up and reread the ad. So you
have a '97 Escort with 97k miles and a f^&*'ed up engine and a f^&*'ed
up transmission.

Now this isn't always true. There are transmission rebuilders out
there that can take your transmission, rebuild it and give you back a
better unit than the car had when it rolled off the factory floor. And
there are engine builders who are meticulous and make sure everything
is as perfect as they can get it. On the other hand there are plenty
of places out there turning out crap rebuilds that you will be dang
lucky to get 20k miles out of.

Another thing to consider is that even the cheapest car out there
today should be good for 150 to 200k without needing a rebuilt engine.
What in the heck did these people do to these poor cars to cause them
to need rebuilt engines and transmissions at this young age?

One more point and I will shut up.... Rebuilt means different things
to different people. To me rebuilt means you have completely returned
the entire unit to factory or better specs. To others a single new
bearing and two cans of black spray paint = rebuilt.

If it was my money I would keep looking to find a nice lower mileage
that hasn't needed all this rebuiling...

Steve B.

[Many thought-provoking points]

> Another thing to consider is that even the cheapest car out there
> today should be good for 150 to 200k without needing a rebuilt engine.
> What in the heck did these people do to these poor cars to cause them
> to need rebuilt engines and transmissions at this young age?

MANY cars are good for it, IF one takes care of them. There are
owners/drivers who remind me of that old joke about people who, if left
in the desert all night with nothing but an anvil, will have broken
the anvil by dawn.

There are also some tinnily built cars, and some that are mostly nice
but have a make/model/year/option-specific Achilles heel.

That having been said, the original poster is looking at a Corolla or
Camry. Well, plus or minus a span of years in the early 90s that some
say had "sludging" problems in certain engines if you aren't
scrupulous about oil changes -- that, and you do have to replace the
timing belt at a certain long interval -- Toyotas are legendary for
going the distance. My sister had a 1988 V6/automatic Camry wagon
that they traded at 180,000 miles (someone somewhere may still be
using it as a fishin' car, but after 17 Rust Belt winters, they didn't
want to commute on the expressway in it anymore). My '89
four-banger/five-on-the-floor Camry is still a daily driver with two
and a quarter on the clock; it has always enjoyed fresh oil and never
tasted road salt but otherwise has been used in the most knockabout
fashion. Mom's '90 Corolla doesn't count because at her
3000-mile-a-year pace she won't turn over the odometer until cars are
replaced by Scotty's transporter beam, but it has certainly displayed
reliability and low maintenance.

A final thought for any used car purchase: Before signing or paying
anything, take it to a trustworthy mechanic or at least a car-savvy
friend who has no vested interest in the deal. You're paying for
objectivity as well as expertise -- by this point, more or less by
definition you want the car. I have learned the importance of such
counsel in both the easy and the hard ways (and have provided it on
occasion). At the very least, you'll get a roadmap of future repairs
and preventive maintenance; at most, you'll spend forty or fifty bucks
to avoid a mistake that could cost thousands, regarding either
Something Mechanics Know about the model, or abuse, neglect, or sheer
age of the particular car.

Best of luck,
--Joe

"z" > wrote in
oups.com:


<snip good points>


> On the other hand, when I tossed
> that head back and subsequently got one from PAECO (I'm happy to name
> names in a good way)




It's nice to know there are good rebuilding places out there, but the
$64,000 question is...how do you know who they are????? How can you tell
the butchers from the best?

My car is getting up there in mileage, and I'm going to need a rebuild or
replacement in the next couple of years, so this is an important subject to
me. The car is a '91 Integra that I've owned since new.

If anybody knows of a quality rebuilder in Southern Ontario (Canada), I'd
be glad to hear about it. Price is not the issue here, quality is.


--
Tegger

Can't go wrong with Jasper !
> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm looking for an older, inexpensive station wagon (Corolla or Camry,
> if I can find one). A lot of the cars I'm seeing have rebuilt engines,
> even when they're not that old ( a friend is selling a 1997 Escort with
> 97,000 miles and a rebuilt engine and transmission).
>
> Is a rebuilt engine a plus or minus? Does it mean the car had problems
> or saw a lot of use, and needed a new engine? Or does it mean I'm
> getting a new engine with plenty of life? My father always told me not
> to get used cars with rebuilt engines, but some of the cars talk about
> rebuilds as if they're good things.
>
> SB
>

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm looking for an older, inexpensive station wagon (Corolla or Camry,
> if I can find one). A lot of the cars I'm seeing have rebuilt engines,
> even when they're not that old ( a friend is selling a 1997 Escort with
> 97,000 miles and a rebuilt engine and transmission).
>

You see this a lot in Asian cars because most Asian engines use
interference designs, which means the valves occupy the same space
as the piston head during the cycle. As long as the timing belt does
not break or slip, the engine works fine but if the owner does not
regularly replace the timing belt (and quite a lot of them don't) and
the belt wears out and breaks, the engine is destroyed. (at least, the
heads are)

> Is a rebuilt engine a plus or minus? Does it mean the car had problems
> or saw a lot of use, and needed a new engine? Or does it mean I'm
> getting a new engine with plenty of life? My father always told me not
> to get used cars with rebuilt engines, but some of the cars talk about
> rebuilds as if they're good things.
>

I got a rebuilt engine from these guys for my 1984 Celebrity wagon:

http://www.jonesautoengines.com

It carried a 50,000 mile/ 5 year warranty. The engine is still running,
60,000 miles later.

Ted

wrote in article
. com>...
> I'm looking for an older, inexpensive station wagon (Corolla or Camry,
> if I can find one). A lot of the cars I'm seeing have rebuilt engines,
> even when they're not that old ( a friend is selling a 1997 Escort with
> 97,000 miles and a rebuilt engine and transmission).
>
> Is a rebuilt engine a plus or minus? Does it mean the car had problems
> or saw a lot of use, and needed a new engine? Or does it mean I'm
> getting a new engine with plenty of life? My father always told me not
> to get used cars with rebuilt engines, but some of the cars talk about
> rebuilds as if they're good things.
>
> SB
>
>


If one of today's cars is so poorly maintained that the engine has to be
rebuilt/replaced with fewer than 100K, I would question the condition of
the remainder of the car - and how well it has been maintained.

That, or the actual quality of the vehicle in the first place.

Either way, I doubt if I would consider buying any car that has had a major
component replaced in such a short time.

I, and many of my friends, routinely run our cars up to 200K with the
original driveline - engine, transmission, and drive axle.

Tegger wrote:
> "z" > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>
> <snip good points>
>
>
> > On the other hand, when I tossed
> > that head back and subsequently got one from PAECO (I'm happy to name
> > names in a good way)
>
>
>
>
> It's nice to know there are good rebuilding places out there, but the
> $64,000 question is...how do you know who they are????? How can you tell
> the butchers from the best?
>
> My car is getting up there in mileage, and I'm going to need a rebuild or
> replacement in the next couple of years, so this is an important subject to
> me. The car is a '91 Integra that I've owned since new.
>
> If anybody knows of a quality rebuilder in Southern Ontario (Canada), I'd
> be glad to hear about it. Price is not the issue here, quality is.

The aforesaid junkyard engine and trans which are now giving me good
service in the Civic were one of those Japanese throwaways, from a
junkyard in Canada I saw advertised; I forget whether it was Ontario or
PQ. I'd make more of an effort to dig it up, but they sort of botched
it by promising me the ECU and shift linkage, and supplying neither. In
fairness, they didn't charge me for either, figuring that evened it up,
but the cost and hassle of getting them was (predictably) considerable,
and the fact that they advertised "complete with ECU and shift linkage"
was one of the reasons I went with them rather than anyone closer to
home. This was a Japanese B16a1 with a limited slip trans, and even
including the cost and hassle of getting those parts and more repairs
to the engine than I expected, even though I had budgeted a timing belt
replacement, it was still cheaper than a factory rebuild of the D16
original engine, and has been well worth it; the limited slip trans in
a FWD is a minor miracle in itself, and I ain't going back!
>
>
> --
> Tegger

"z" > wrote in
s.com:

> it was still
> cheaper than a factory rebuild of the D16 original engine,



You can get that? My local Acura dealer's parts man has worked there since
1986 and never mentioned factory rebuilds when I got prices from him.



> and has
> been well worth it; the limited slip trans in a FWD is a minor miracle
> in itself, and I ain't going back!
>>


The whole thing is a bit intimidating from my perspective.

Buy a used motor and risk buying somebody's neglect. Get it rebuilt and you
risk having a bad job done.

There is a shop that's been recommended to me by a very reputable garage.
This rebuilder's been around for many years, but works mostly on North
American engines. I called them and spoke to the owner, who invited me to
take a tour. He'd show me exactly what they do and how they do it. Quoted
$2,800Cdn for a complete bare-block rebuild. Sounds promising...


--
Tegger