Guy gets caught while trying to stop drivers from talking oncellphones while driving

On 11/22/2014 12:59 PM, 290jkl wrote:
>
>
> "Lewis" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>> On 11/21/2014 10:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>> On 11/20/2014 6:59 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was very lucky. Had anyone died because of his actions that
>>>>>> would be
>>>>>> first degree murder, which is still a capital offense in Florida.
>>>>
>>>>> Let me guess... You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>>>>
>>>> What are you talking about?
>>
>>> Your "legal training"
>>
>> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>
> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending
> himself.
>
>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>
> Fraid not.
>
>> and as I understand it is true in Florida.
>
>> So, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of
>> a heart attack, that is first degree murder.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_..._United_States
>
>
>> Jamming cellphone signals is illegal,. The jammer also jams emergency
>> vehicle communications. If that jamming caused *in any way* a person to
>> die, then the person jamming the signals could be charged with first
>> degree murder.
>
> Wrong.


Holiday Inn Express laughable.

In article >, 290jkl
> wrote:

> > A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
> > regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>
> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending himself.

Only if the death is that of the perpetrator. If it's a third party,
then it is first degree murder, charged to the perpetrator.

Lewis > wrote:
[...]
> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.

Then - as a shopper - I'd better not have a heart-attack when someone
steals a packet of crisps!

On 2014-11-22 17:59:42 +0000, "290jkl" > said:

>
>
> "Lewis" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>> On 11/21/2014 10:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>> On 11/20/2014 6:59 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was very lucky. Had anyone died because of his actions that would be
>>>>>> first degree murder, which is still a capital offense in Florida.
>>>>
>>>>> Let me guess... You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>>>>
>>>> What are you talking about?
>>
>>> Your "legal training"
>>
>> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>
> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending himself.

Actually true in California. There have been several cases where a
partner in crime has been killed as a result of action by a victim and
the survivor has been charged and convicted of murder.
This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony murder
and most other forms of murder.
Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the
felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's
intentional or accidental.

This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
felony murder if his partner accidentally shoots someone while
attempting to rob a bank. There are a fair number of individuals
serving life terms in California because of the felony murder rule. I
actual knowledge of two home invasion cases where in the first, two
partners in crime were killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who
was wounded) is serving a life term. In the other there were two
partners in crime, one killed, the other convicted of murder under the
felony murder rule.

>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>
> Fraid not.

It has been true in California for the 25 years I was a Law Enforcement
officer in this State.

>> and as I understand it is true in Florida.
>
>> So, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of
>> a heart attack, that is first degree murder.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_..._United_States

Jamming
>
>> cellphone signals is illegal,. The jammer also jams emergency
>> vehicle communications. If that jamming caused *in any way* a person to
>> die, then the person jamming the signals could be charged with first
>> degree murder.
>
> Wrong.

That depends on the will of the local D.A..

--
Regards,

Savageduck

"Michelle Steiner" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, 290jkl
> > wrote:
>
>> > A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>> > regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>>
>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending
>> himself.
>
> Only if the death is that of the perpetrator.

Even if it's the death of someone other than the perp.

> If it's a third party, then it is first degree murder,

Wrong.

> charged to the perpetrator.

Wrong.

"Lewis" > wrote in message
...
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? 290jkl > was all, like:
>
>
>> "Lewis" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>> On 11/21/2014 10:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>>> On 11/20/2014 6:59 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He was very lucky. Had anyone died because of his actions that would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> first degree murder, which is still a capital offense in Florida.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me guess... You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>>>>>
>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>
>>>> Your "legal training"
>>>
>>> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>>> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>
>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending
>> himself.
>
>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>
>> Fraid not.
>
> Unless the law has changed very recently in California, yes it is.

No it is not, particularly in the situation I mentioned.

>>> and as I understand it is true in Florida.
>
>>> So, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of
>>> a heart attack, that is first degree murder.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_..._United_States
>
> The relevant link:

Nope, that defines what is first degree murder.

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule>
> "The rule of felony murder

A separate issue entirely to what is FIRST DEGREE murder.

is a legal doctrine in some common law
> jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder in two ways. First, when
> an offender kills accidentally or without specific intent to kill in the
> commission of a felony, the offender can be charged with murder.

But not with FIRST DEGREE murder.

Second,
> it makes any participant in such a felony criminally liable for any
> deaths that occur during or in furtherance of that felony."

Still not FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

> And Felony Murder is classified as 1st Degree murder,

Not always.

> as cited on the page you linked to.

It doesn’t say that that absolutely. In fact it says very explicitly indeed
that first
degree murder requires intent, planning and malice aforethought and if there
is
no intent it becomes second degree murder. So you are just plain wrong.

>>> Jamming cellphone signals is illegal,. The jammer also jams emergency
>>> vehicle communications. If that jamming caused *in any way* a person to
>>> die, then the person jamming the signals could be charged with first
>>> degree murder.
>
>> Wrong.
>
> Yeah, I'm sure I'm going to believe you.

Doesn’t matter what you believe.

"Savageduck" > wrote in message
news:2014112213224244856-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
> On 2014-11-22 17:59:42 +0000, "290jkl" > said:
>
>>
>>
>> "Lewis" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>> On 11/21/2014 10:18 AM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? News > was all, like:
>>>>>> On 11/20/2014 6:59 PM, Lewis wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He was very lucky. Had anyone died because of his actions that would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> first degree murder, which is still a capital offense in Florida.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me guess... You stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night?
>>>>>
>>>>> What are you talking about?
>>>
>>>> Your "legal training"
>>>
>>> A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>>> regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>>
>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending
>> himself.
>
> Actually true in California.

Nope.

> There have been several cases where a partner in crime has been killed as
> a result of action by a victim and the survivor has been charged and
> convicted of murder.

But not with FIRST DEGREE MURDER.

> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony murder
> is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A felony is
> a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one year in prison.
> There are certain key differences between felony murder and most other
> forms of murder.

There is also a key difference between FIRST DEGREE and SECOND DEGREE
murder.

> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder only
> requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the felony,
> any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's intentional or
> accidental.

But not FIRST DEGREE murder when there is no intent to murder.

> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with felony
> murder

Felony murder isnt the same thing as FIRST DEGREE murder.

> if his partner accidentally shoots someone while attempting to rob a bank.
> There are a fair number of individuals serving life terms in California
> because of the felony murder rule. I actual knowledge of two home invasion
> cases where in the first, two partners in crime were killed by the home
> owner, and the survivor (who was wounded) is serving a life term.

But not for FIRST DEGREE murder.

In the other there were two
> partners in crime, one killed, the other convicted of murder under the
> felony murder rule.

Again, he wasn’t convicted of FIRST DEGREE murder.

>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>
>> Fraid not.
>
> It has been true in California for the 25 years I was a Law Enforcement
> officer in this State.

No, not with FIRST DEGREE murder. You are talking
about FELONY murder, a different crime entirely.

>>> and as I understand it is true in Florida.
>>
>>> So, if you rob a store and the clerk dies of
>>> a heart attack, that is first degree murder.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_..._United_States
>
>>> Jamming cellphone signals is illegal,. The jammer also jams emergency
>>> vehicle communications. If that jamming caused *in any way* a person to
>>> die, then the person jamming the signals could be charged with first
>>> degree murder.
>>
>> Wrong.
>
> That depends on the will of the local D.A..

Nope, the court would toss it in the bin if he was stupid enough to try
that.

It isnt even felony murder either.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 13:47:58 -0700, Michelle Steiner
> wrote:

>In article >, 290jkl
> wrote:
>
>> > A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>> > regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>>
>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending himself.
>
>Only if the death is that of the perpetrator. If it's a third party,
>then it is first degree murder, charged to the perpetrator.

Wrong, as always.

Actually, I have no idea if that's true or not, but wanted to beat
Rod to it. :-)

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 09:05:17 +1100, "290jkl" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Michelle Steiner" > wrote in message
.. .
>> In article >, 290jkl
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> > A death during the commission of a crime is first degree murder
>>> > regardless of the circumstances or cause of the death.
>>>
>>> Wrong when the death is caused by the victim of the crime defending
>>> himself.
>>
>> Only if the death is that of the perpetrator.
>
>Even if it's the death of someone other than the perp.
>
>> If it's a third party, then it is first degree murder,
>
>Wrong.
>
>> charged to the perpetrator.
>
>Wrong.

Rod? Is that you? :-)

On 11/22/2014 03:22 PM, Savageduck wrote:
>
> Actually true in California. There have been several cases where a
> partner in crime has been killed as a result of action by a victim and
> the survivor has been charged and convicted of murder.
> This falls under the felony murder rule. Basically stated, a felony
> murder is when a person is killed during the commission of a felony. A
> felony is a serious crime that's usually punishable by more than one
> year in prison. There are certain key differences between felony murder
> and most other forms of murder.
> Most forms of murder require an intent to commit death. Felony murder
> only requires the intent to commit the felony. During the course of the
> felony, any homicide will be considered murder, whether it's intentional
> or accidental.
>
> This is true even if a participant isn't directly responsible for the
> death. For example, the driver of a getaway car can be charged with
> felony murder if his partner accidentally shoots someone while
> attempting to rob a bank. There are a fair number of individuals serving
> life terms in California because of the felony murder rule. I actual
> knowledge of two home invasion cases where in the first, two partners in
> crime were killed by the home owner, and the survivor (who was wounded)
> is serving a life term. In the other there were two partners in crime,
> one killed, the other convicted of murder under the felony murder rule.
>
>>> This is true here in Colorado, is true in California,
>>
>> Fraid not.
>

As I recall, that is the law used to charge Angela Davis with murder
during a terrorist attack in which she participated, in California,
in the 60's.



technomaNge
--
IANAL