New thread on 'Top Tier' gasoline...

Just an observation. When I use gasolines listed as being 'Top Tier' gas,
the mileage goes DOWN in my Supra, Scion tC and a Chrysler LHS I had a
year ago.

I usually use Gulf oil ,since they are local and usually less $$$ than the
others in my area. I have always gotten decent MPG with Gulf.

The last two fill ups I did were with Citgo (Yeah, Hugo...) and the
mileage I just calculated from the Scion was 33.56 MPG, the best I have
done yet.

With Shell, my MPG usually goes *DOWN* one or two MPG...

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> Just an observation. When I use gasolines listed as being 'Top Tier' gas,
> the mileage goes DOWN in my Supra, Scion tC and a Chrysler LHS I had a
> year ago.
>
> I usually use Gulf oil ,since they are local and usually less $$$ than the
> others in my area. I have always gotten decent MPG with Gulf.
>
> The last two fill ups I did were with Citgo (Yeah, Hugo...) and the
> mileage I just calculated from the Scion was 33.56 MPG, the best I have
> done yet.
>
> With Shell, my MPG usually goes *DOWN* one or two MPG...
>
>
Citgo = Commie gas.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 12:39:56 -0500, Fat Moe wrote:

> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> Just an observation. When I use gasolines listed as being 'Top Tier' gas,
>> the mileage goes DOWN in my Supra, Scion tC and a Chrysler LHS I had a
>> year ago.
>>
>> I usually use Gulf oil ,since they are local and usually less $$$ than the
>> others in my area. I have always gotten decent MPG with Gulf.
>>
>> The last two fill ups I did were with Citgo (Yeah, Hugo...) and the
>> mileage I just calculated from the Scion was 33.56 MPG, the best I have
>> done yet.
>>
>> With Shell, my MPG usually goes *DOWN* one or two MPG...
>>
>>
> Citgo = Commie gas.


It works...

"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
news
> Just an observation. When I use gasolines listed as being 'Top Tier' gas,
> the mileage goes DOWN in my Supra, Scion tC and a Chrysler LHS I had a
> year ago.
>
> I usually use Gulf oil ,since they are local and usually less $$$ than the
> others in my area. I have always gotten decent MPG with Gulf.
>
> The last two fill ups I did were with Citgo (Yeah, Hugo...) and the
> mileage I just calculated from the Scion was 33.56 MPG, the best I have
> done yet.
>
> With Shell, my MPG usually goes *DOWN* one or two MPG...

If you are just caluclating single tank averages, I suspect you results are
not meaningful. I doubt if the feed stock to the Citgo, Shell, and Gulf
sations are actually coming from individual Citgo, Shell, and Gulf
refineries. It may be that one or the other uses ethanol, while the other
does not. I've never really been able to detect any consistent difference in
fuel economy based on brand. In I have bought gas from certain stations on a
regular basis, and then becasue of a change in pricing or credit card
rebates, switched to another brand. Looking over the data shows little
consistent difference between brands, I can show a definite variation based
on the month. And interestingly, the worst months are in the spring. My best
gas mileage is in the summer months. This may be related to changes in
formulation related to the season.

Gulf has an interesting map on their web site that shows thre distribution
network and whether they are selling "Gulf" gas or gas from another
supplier. They have four categories - Proprietary, Purchase, Exchange, and
Throughput. I am guessing these mean - Proprietary: gas that meets some
"special" Gulf standards and is delivered directly by Gulf; Purchase: gas
purchased for cash from another supplier as is, but sold as Gulf; Exchange:
gas aquired from another supplier by exchaning production as is but sold as
Gulf; and Throughput: Gulf gas moved through another system (see
http://www.gulfoil.com/distribution.asp ). Since Gulf does not actually own
a refinery, they are not really selling "Gulf" gas, but I suppose the
"proprietary" Gulf gas has Gulf's own particular combination of additives.
The Wikipedia article on Gulf in interesting
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Oil). It turns out that Chevron actually
owns the "Gulf" trademark, but that in the US "Gulf" gasoline is sold by a
non-US company operating as Gulf Oil L.P. It is just a marketing outfit, so
I see no way you could expect their gas to be "special," at least
consistently.

Ed

My understanding is the top tier gas just refers to additives which may help
keep the engine cleaner. There would be no impact on mpg which would
probably be most affected by ethanol content as you mentioned.


"C. E. White" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
> news
>> Just an observation. When I use gasolines listed as being 'Top Tier' gas,
>> the mileage goes DOWN in my Supra, Scion tC and a Chrysler LHS I had a
>> year ago.
>>
>> I usually use Gulf oil ,since they are local and usually less $$$ than
>> the
>> others in my area. I have always gotten decent MPG with Gulf.
>>
>> The last two fill ups I did were with Citgo (Yeah, Hugo...) and the
>> mileage I just calculated from the Scion was 33.56 MPG, the best I have
>> done yet.
>>
>> With Shell, my MPG usually goes *DOWN* one or two MPG...
>
> If you are just caluclating single tank averages, I suspect you results
> are not meaningful. I doubt if the feed stock to the Citgo, Shell, and
> Gulf sations are actually coming from individual Citgo, Shell, and Gulf
> refineries. It may be that one or the other uses ethanol, while the other
> does not. I've never really been able to detect any consistent difference
> in fuel economy based on brand. In I have bought gas from certain stations
> on a regular basis, and then becasue of a change in pricing or credit card
> rebates, switched to another brand. Looking over the data shows little
> consistent difference between brands, I can show a definite variation
> based on the month. And interestingly, the worst months are in the spring.
> My best gas mileage is in the summer months. This may be related to
> changes in formulation related to the season.
>
> Gulf has an interesting map on their web site that shows thre distribution
> network and whether they are selling "Gulf" gas or gas from another
> supplier. They have four categories - Proprietary, Purchase, Exchange, and
> Throughput. I am guessing these mean - Proprietary: gas that meets some
> "special" Gulf standards and is delivered directly by Gulf; Purchase: gas
> purchased for cash from another supplier as is, but sold as Gulf;
> Exchange: gas aquired from another supplier by exchaning production as is
> but sold as Gulf; and Throughput: Gulf gas moved through another system
> (see http://www.gulfoil.com/distribution.asp ). Since Gulf does not
> actually own a refinery, they are not really selling "Gulf" gas, but I
> suppose the "proprietary" Gulf gas has Gulf's own particular combination
> of additives. The Wikipedia article on Gulf in interesting
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Oil). It turns out that Chevron
> actually owns the "Gulf" trademark, but that in the US "Gulf" gasoline is
> sold by a non-US company operating as Gulf Oil L.P. It is just a
> marketing outfit, so I see no way you could expect their gas to be
> "special," at least consistently.
>
> Ed
>
>

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:00:55 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
> wrote:

>In article > ,
> "Art" > wrote:
>
>> My understanding is the top tier gas just refers to additives which may help
>> keep the engine cleaner. There would be no impact on mpg
>
>Other than the impact of a clean fuel and combustion system vs. a dirty
>fuel and combustion system.
>
>Dirty injectors, dirty valves, etc--all that will cause lower mileage.
>Keep everything clean, get better mileage.

Anybody know how additives are put in the truck tankers?
A fellow in another group says a number of gas companies
all get their gas from the same Hess depot near his home, all the gas
coming through the same pipeline from the same ship.
Says it's all the same gas going to Texaco, Chevron, etc, and
the additive claims are BS.
The only answer I can think of is they put the additives in at the
Hess depot, but I don't know.
..
--Vic

>
> Anybody know how additives are put in the truck tankers?
> A fellow in another group says a number of gas companies
> all get their gas from the same Hess depot near his home, all the gas
> coming through the same pipeline from the same ship.
> Says it's all the same gas going to Texaco, Chevron, etc, and
> the additive claims are BS.
> The only answer I can think of is they put the additives in at the
> Hess depot, but I don't know.

In most places all the gas stations in that locale get their gas from the same
terminal. Additives are added when the tanker trucks that deliver to the retail
stations are filled.

Here is an article that describes the process

http://www.t-r-i.com/gifs/xGasoline%20Quality.pdf


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On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:30:34 -0500, Vic Smith
> wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 07:00:55 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
> wrote:
>
>>In article > ,
>> "Art" > wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding is the top tier gas just refers to additives which may help
>>> keep the engine cleaner. There would be no impact on mpg
>>
>>Other than the impact of a clean fuel and combustion system vs. a dirty
>>fuel and combustion system.
>>
>>Dirty injectors, dirty valves, etc--all that will cause lower mileage.
>>Keep everything clean, get better mileage.
>
>Anybody know how additives are put in the truck tankers?
>A fellow in another group says a number of gas companies
>all get their gas from the same Hess depot near his home, all the gas
>coming through the same pipeline from the same ship.
>Says it's all the same gas going to Texaco, Chevron, etc, and
>the additive claims are BS.
>The only answer I can think of is they put the additives in at the
>Hess depot, but I don't know.
>.
>--Vic

With the state of American Industry today, I would be surprised if the
different brands still customize their additive packages. In my part
of Ohio, gas stations buy their gas from either Sunoco or BP's
refinery. I would guess that Sunoco blends their gas for their
stations and anyone buying gas from their refinery is really getting
Sunoco gas. I do know that only one firm hauls gas from both
refineries. So if the refinery still sells a base stock and each
brand then adds it's own additives, someone has to stock those
additives. Either the refinery, the trucking firm or the gas station
would stock them and I can't see Sunoco stocking additives for Gulf or
Shell.

Jack

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:31:25 -0500, jim >
wrote:


>In most places all the gas stations in that locale get their gas from the same
>terminal. Additives are added when the tanker trucks that deliver to the retail
>stations are filled.
>
> Here is an article that describes the process
>
>http://www.t-r-i.com/gifs/xGasoline%20Quality.pdf
>
Thanks.

--Vic

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:

> mileage I just calculated from the Scion was 33.56 MPG, the best I have


You are very hard-pressed to measure to the nearest tenth of an mpg.

You will not be able to measure to a /hundredth/ of an mpg unless maybe
your tire radius varies no more than say a thousandth of an inch, for
instance.

Be satisfied if you can measure to the nearest whole mpg. Plenty of
people will tell you that EPA can't even do that.