ATF, ATF filter, and ATF pan gasket Change Procedure

Built_Well wrote:
> John G dole wrote:
>> Why do the ATF hoses come into play when you drain/refill? How about
>> using the drain plug?
> ========
>
> The ATF hoses don't come into play if you're just doing
> a regular drain-and-fill, but they do come into play if you want
> to drain /all/ of the ATF out, including the almost 60
> percent that's in the torque converter.
>
> A regular drain-and-fill that gets out 40 percent of
> the ATF should suffice, though :-)
>
> Thanks for mentioning the solenoid. I will consider
> getting the free replacement, but I really haven't had
> any down-shifting problem with the car.
>
> Do you have a copy or link to the TSB?

Even removing the cooler lines won't get the fluid out of the converter.

The only way to drain a converter while it's installed is to remove it's
drain plug (IF it has one most don't) or to drill a hole in the
converter and drain it, then use a SHORT rivet or screw to seal the
hole. That isn't a good idea in most cases since it is VERY easy to
damage the internals unless you know EXACTLY where you can drill.

Also a TSB is NOT a recall. It is only a notice to mechanics to look at
that part as a possible source of the stated problem. Basically the
manufacturer is telling them "hey we think this part may be the cause of
this failure, so replace it if you see this problem"

It is NOT a free repair either. It is ONLY done if your vehicle is
exhibiting the stated problem AND needs the repair. You will still get
billed for it.


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

Ray O wrote:
>
> It is not necessary to replace the screen, clean the magnets,
> or clean the transmission pan itself under normal conditions
========

Well, you're right, Ray. That's why I said after 20 years...

And I'm nearly certain it's not an FIPG (formed-in-place or
foam-in-place) gasket. Instead you buy the gasket at the
dealership for $16.

A challenge with the 18 bolts is they each require seal packing
that must be applied within a certain time limit. Plus 5 or 6
of the bolts are really hard to get to.

But as I mentioned, this is a job that you might want to
do after 20 years, not regularly.

Sure, even some "recalls" would require inspecting things like timing
belt date code etc. But a lot of owners out there don't realize they
have problems and never got the free parts they should get. They think
some rough shifts are just "normal."

That's why always read the TSBs (try google) and check carefully if
your car exhibits the described problem. After all, if you don't
complain it doesn't get fixed!!



On Jul 24, 11:17*pm, "Steve W." > wrote:
> Even removing the cooler lines won't get the fluid out of the converter.
>
> The only way to drain a converter while it's installed is to remove it's
> drain plug (IF it has one most don't) or to drill a hole in the
> converter and drain it, then use a SHORT rivet or screw to seal the
> hole. That isn't a good idea in most cases since it is VERY easy to
> damage the internals unless you know EXACTLY where you can drill.
>
> Also a TSB is NOT a recall. It is only a notice to mechanics to look at
> that part as a possible source of the stated problem. Basically the
> manufacturer is telling them "hey we think this part may be the cause of
> this failure, so replace it if you see this problem"
>
> It is NOT a free repair either. It is ONLY done if your vehicle is
> exhibiting the stated problem AND needs the repair. You will still get
> billed for it.
>
> --
> Steve W.
> Near Cooperstown, New York
>
> Life is not like a box of chocolates
> it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
> what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

Calling a "fluid exchange machine" a "flush machine" is false
advertising.

The "fluid exchange machines" are accurate to within 95% and it only
exchanges old for new fluids. But it doesn't clean the pan for you. I
don't think people use "flush" machines anymore. Don't jam the valve
bodies with one.




On Jul 24, 11:27*pm, Built_Well > wrote:
> Ray O wrote:
>
> > It is not necessary to replace the screen, clean the magnets,
> > or clean the transmission pan itself under normal conditions
>
> ========
>
> Well, you're right, Ray. *That's why I said after 20 years...
>
> And I'm nearly certain it's not an FIPG (formed-in-place or
> foam-in-place) gasket. *Instead you buy the gasket at the
> dealership for $16.
>
> A challenge with the 18 bolts is they each require seal packing
> that must be applied within a certain time limit. *Plus 5 or 6
> of the bolts are really hard to get to.
>
> But as I mentioned, this is a job that you might want to
> do after 20 years, not regularly.

"Built_Well" > wrote in message
...
> Ray O wrote:
>>
>> It is not necessary to replace the screen, clean the magnets,
>> or clean the transmission pan itself under normal conditions
> ========
>
> Well, you're right, Ray. That's why I said after 20 years...

How many 20 year old transmission screens (actually called a strainer) have
you looked at that need replacement? I haven't seen any. Have you ever
even seen a transmission strainer?

> And I'm nearly certain it's not an FIPG (formed-in-place or
> foam-in-place) gasket. Instead you buy the gasket at the
> dealership for $16.
>

FIPG = formed-in-place gasket.

> A challenge with the 18 bolts is they each require seal packing
> that must be applied within a certain time limit. Plus 5 or 6
> of the bolts are really hard to get to.
>
> But as I mentioned, this is a job that you might want to
> do after 20 years, not regularly.

I've mentioned several times that changing the transmission strainer is not
necessary, but you do not have to take my word and experience for it. Read
the owner's manual and factory repair manual and see if you can find any
recommendation from the folks who built the car to ever change the strainer
as part of a preventative maintenance procedure.

I don't know why you are so insistent on changing the strainer. In close to
40 years of working on cars, I have never seen a transmission fail because
the strainer wasn't changed. For 15 of those years, that included talking
to over 100 dealers who worked on hundreds of thousands of vehicles.

If changing the engine oil or getting lug nuts tightened properly is a
challenge, then dropping the pan, changing the strainer, and getting to back
together without trashing your $3,000 transmission is going to be a HUGE
challenge. On a 20 year old vehicle, you will likely snap several bolts off
and have to drill and tap the transmission case, and if that is not done
correctly, the transmission is trashed. If the magnets are placed in the
incorrect position, they can block one or more fluid tubes, which could
trash the transmission. If the gasket slips out of position or the bolts
are not tightened correctly, the fluid could leak out, which would trash the
transmission. In other words, why take so many chances to trash the
transmission to do something that is unnecessary?

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in
:

> I have never seen a transmission
> fail because the strainer wasn't changed. For 15 of those years, that
> included talking to over 100 dealers who worked on hundreds of
> thousands of vehicles.



Automatic transmissions fail because the fluid was not changed (or the
wrong fluid was used), and/or from overheating due to excessive towing
weights.


--
Tegger

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in
> :
>
>> I have never seen a transmission
>> fail because the strainer wasn't changed. For 15 of those years, that
>> included talking to over 100 dealers who worked on hundreds of
>> thousands of vehicles.
>
>
>
> Automatic transmissions fail because the fluid was not changed (or the
> wrong fluid was used), and/or from overheating due to excessive towing
> weights.
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>

I agree.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

Ray, you wrote that you've [quote]"mentioned several times
that changing the transmission strainer is not necessary, but
you do not have to take my word and experience for it."

You also wrote, "How many 20 year old transmission screens
(actually called a strainer) have you looked at that need
replacement? I haven't seen any."

Ray, my man, can you point out where I stated that the
transmission filter requires changing? Why are you implying
to the group that I have ever said that?

You seem to be putting words in my mouth so that you can pretend
to come along and correct something I said, which I never said.
Odd that you would feel the need to do that.

And it sounds like you're blowing a gasket, too [chuckle]. Try to
relax a little more, my friend :-)

I've been busy all weekend, but finally had a chance to
catch up with the thread.

Chill out, Ray :-)

Built_Well wrote:
> Ray, you wrote that you've [quote]"mentioned several times
> that changing the transmission strainer is not necessary, but
> you do not have to take my word and experience for it."
>
> You also wrote, "How many 20 year old transmission screens
> (actually called a strainer) have you looked at that need
> replacement? I haven't seen any."
>
> Ray, my man, can you point out where I stated that the
> transmission filter requires changing? Why are you implying
> to the group that I have ever said that?
>
> You seem to be putting words in my mouth so that you can pretend
> to come along and correct something I said, which I never said.
> Odd that you would feel the need to do that.
>
> And it sounds like you're blowing a gasket, too [chuckle]. Try to
> relax a little more, my friend :-)
>
> I've been busy all weekend, but finally had a chance to
> catch up with the thread.
>
> Chill out, Ray :-)
==========

Remember Ray, we're all just having fun here.

"Built_Well" > wrote in message
...
>
> Ray, you wrote that you've [quote]"mentioned several times
> that changing the transmission strainer is not necessary, but
> you do not have to take my word and experience for it."
>
> You also wrote, "How many 20 year old transmission screens
> (actually called a strainer) have you looked at that need
> replacement? I haven't seen any."
>
> Ray, my man, can you point out where I stated that the
> transmission filter requires changing? Why are you implying
> to the group that I have ever said that?
>
> You seem to be putting words in my mouth so that you can pretend
> to come along and correct something I said, which I never said.
> Odd that you would feel the need to do that.
>
> And it sounds like you're blowing a gasket, too [chuckle]. Try to
> relax a little more, my friend :-)
>
> I've been busy all weekend, but finally had a chance to
> catch up with the thread.
>
> Chill out, Ray :-)

I guess I'm just a wannabe teacher who is trying to teach you a few things
about your car. When you mention the same thing more than once after the
"lesson" was presented, I get the impression, correctly or incorrectly, that
perhaps my lesson didn't sink in, or that you don't believe that the
information in the lesson is correct.

While you did mention in another post that you probably would not attempt
more than a drain and refill, you did post this later:

> Has anyone ever removed their own car's ATF pan to
> replace its gasket and screen-filter or clean the
> magnets and clean the ATF pan itself? I guess after 20
> years it might make sense...

I was merely pointing out that even after 20 years, it would not make sense
to replace the strainer.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)