How good IS BMW's 6 cylinder engine?

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:31:37 -0400, Fred W > wrote:

>R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>>>AUTOMATIC means it does it by itself - and auto transmission cannot think
>>>it can
>>>only change gear by itself. Ok now we have all sorts of sensors that feed
>>>the
>>>electronics all kinds of info and it's getting to be automatic but not in
>>>1956.
>>>
>>
>> Even in 1956 a Borg-Warner auto box did quite a reasonable job of changing
>> gear.
>>
>> The threshold levels etc. are to a considerable extent predetermined, but
>> even in a purely hydraulic auto box the gearbox selects the gear using a
>> combination of
>>
>> input revs
>> output revs
>> hydraulic pressure from slip angle in torque converter (relative load)
>> any user settings (gate, kickdown etc.)
>>
>> basically if the engine is slipping slipping a lot past the gearbox (high
>> revs; low speed) then the gearbox will tend to change down; whereas if the
>> the engine is only slipping a little it tend to change up. Up down
>> thresholds were adjusted by adjusting the spring pressures on the valves.
>>
>> Some of early sports / economy boxes worked that in sport mode the box
>> reverted to being purely hydraulic with the overdrive top (essentially and
>> electrically operated overdrive) disabled.
>>
>> In economy mode the ECU knew about throttle settings and engine load etc.
>> and would alter the change up change down points and briefly cut the
>> ignition while the bands engaged to prolong their life and make smoother
>> changes.
>>
>>
>
>Copuld someone please start a new
>"alt.redundant-chatter-about-automatic-transmissions" newsgroup?

Isn't that what this is called but shortened to <alt.autos.bmw>
--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:32:33 -0400, Fred W > wrote:

>Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>> Punctuation would be nice, too.. ;-)
>>
>> DAS
>>
>> For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling
>> ---
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>> [..]
>>
>>>Come on guys - lets have some more anomalies...........
>>>--
>>>
>>>Sir Hugh of Bognor
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>
>
>So would bottom posting.
>
>;-)
>
>Period.

Still moaning Fred.

Some groups want top posting some want bottom posting - you get it where I feel
like putting it as does everyone else.

Fred let me remind you that not everyone in the world is American nor speaks
American ENGLISH not even the aliens in Star trek or Stargate neither do you own
the newsgroups so it's "Hobson's choice"

Hobson was a man that rented horses and you had to be satisfied with what he
gave you not what you wanted - bit like Hertz car rental really!

> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:24:43 +0100, "R. Mark Clayton"
> > wrote:
>
>>>
>>> AUTOMATIC means it does it by itself - and auto transmission cannot
>>> think
>>> it can
>>> only change gear by itself. Ok now we have all sorts of sensors that
>>> feed
>>> the
>>> electronics all kinds of info and it's getting to be automatic but not
>>> in
>>> 1956.
>>>
>>Even in 1956 a Borg-Warner auto box did quite a reasonable job of changing
>>gear.
>>
Snip
>>
> Er? I think that's basically what I was saying ------- wasn't it?

Er no you were saying that automatic boxes in 1956 were not worthy of the
appellation, when they were, albeit with hydraulic control systems rather
than electronic.

> --
>
> Sir Hugh of Bognor
>
> The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.
>

Dean Dark wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:31:37 -0400, Fred W >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Copuld someone please start a new
>>"alt.redundant-chatter-about-automatic-transmissions" newsgroup?
>
>
> Why? Just set the thread to 'ignore' if you're not interested.
>
> Sheesh.

It was a joke, Dan.

Sheesh.

--
-Fred W

wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:31:37 -0400, Fred W > wrote:
>
>
>>R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>>
>>>>AUTOMATIC means it does it by itself - and auto transmission cannot think
>>>>it can
>>>>only change gear by itself. Ok now we have all sorts of sensors that feed
>>>>the
>>>>electronics all kinds of info and it's getting to be automatic but not in
>>>>1956.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Even in 1956 a Borg-Warner auto box did quite a reasonable job of changing
>>>gear.
>>>
>>>The threshold levels etc. are to a considerable extent predetermined, but
>>>even in a purely hydraulic auto box the gearbox selects the gear using a
>>>combination of
>>>
>>>input revs
>>>output revs
>>>hydraulic pressure from slip angle in torque converter (relative load)
>>>any user settings (gate, kickdown etc.)
>>>
>>>basically if the engine is slipping slipping a lot past the gearbox (high
>>>revs; low speed) then the gearbox will tend to change down; whereas if the
>>>the engine is only slipping a little it tend to change up. Up down
>>>thresholds were adjusted by adjusting the spring pressures on the valves.
>>>
>>>Some of early sports / economy boxes worked that in sport mode the box
>>>reverted to being purely hydraulic with the overdrive top (essentially and
>>>electrically operated overdrive) disabled.
>>>
>>>In economy mode the ECU knew about throttle settings and engine load etc.
>>>and would alter the change up change down points and briefly cut the
>>>ignition while the bands engaged to prolong their life and make smoother
>>>changes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Copuld someone please start a new
>>"alt.redundant-chatter-about-automatic-transmissions" newsgroup?
>
>
> Isn't that what this is called but shortened to <alt.autos.bmw>

I guess you are right because we seem to have this discussion here about
every 4-6 months.

If past history is an accurate indicator of future performance, we will
soon hear Dave pipe up about how SMG is really just an automatic...

--
-Fred W

wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:32:33 -0400, Fred W > wrote:
>
>
>>Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>>
>>>Punctuation would be nice, too.. ;-)
>>>
>>>DAS
>>>
>>>For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling
>>>---
> wrote in message
...
>>>[..]
>>>
>>>
>>>>Come on guys - lets have some more anomalies...........
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>Sir Hugh of Bognor
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>
>>
>>So would bottom posting.
>>
>>;-)
>>
>>Period.
>
>
> Still moaning Fred.
>
> Some groups want top posting some want bottom posting - you get it where I feel
> like putting it as does everyone else.
>
> Fred let me remind you that not everyone in the world is American nor speaks
> American ENGLISH not even the aliens in Star trek or Stargate neither do you own
> the newsgroups so it's "Hobson's choice"
>
> Hobson was a man that rented horses and you had to be satisfied with what he
> gave you not what you wanted - bit like Hertz car rental really!
>


I never "moan" about top vs bottom posting. You must be confusing me
with someone else.

Here's my take. When replying to a thread with prior replys, one should
reply in kind. In other words, if the first replier top posted, so
should the second, and vice versa. Otherwise it makes it too damn hard
to read the thread.

The alternative is to "fix" the prior reply order to whatever your
preference is.

The alternative alternative is to trim all other replies and only add
your own reply where you want it.

The only one I really don't like is top posting a previously bottom
posted reply or bottom posting a previously top posted reply. Hence you
may see the irony of my bottom posted reply to you? Do you need a
smiley face here?

--
-Fred W

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:28:28 +0100, "R. Mark Clayton"
> wrote:

>
> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:24:43 +0100, "R. Mark Clayton"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> AUTOMATIC means it does it by itself - and auto transmission cannot
>>>> think
>>>> it can
>>>> only change gear by itself. Ok now we have all sorts of sensors that
>>>> feed
>>>> the
>>>> electronics all kinds of info and it's getting to be automatic but not
>>>> in
>>>> 1956.
>>>>
>>>Even in 1956 a Borg-Warner auto box did quite a reasonable job of changing
>>>gear.
>>>
>Snip
>>>
>> Er? I think that's basically what I was saying ------- wasn't it?
>
>Er no you were saying that automatic boxes in 1956 were not worthy of the
>appellation, when they were, albeit with hydraulic control systems rather
>than electronic.

No Mark the weren't. They changed gear according to load and speed as do the
electronic versions but neither are AUTOMATIC as they rely on outside influence
to do it. A time switch is automatic, breathing is automatic.

The first "auto" boxes arrived pre 50s and were the 2 speed powerglide I think.
Did what it was supposed to change gear automatically. It was crude and
troublesome but sufficed and was the fore runner of the great advancement we
have today - electronically controlled but still hydraulically operated.

Again the only thing they do automatically is change gear the rest is getting
close to AI (artificial intelligence) but we aren't quite there yet.

I fitted an auto to a Hot Rod (Mk2 Ford Cortina fitted with 3 litre V6 + BW 35
auto) and really never stopped driving autos. All but one of my cars since 1968
have been automatics -

Hugh
>
Sir Hugh of Bognor

--
I used to be an Egotistical Meglomaniac - but now I'm just perfect!

Hugh Gundersen


Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 07:27:47 -0400, Fred W > wrote:

wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:32:33 -0400, Fred W > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
>>>
>>>>Punctuation would be nice, too.. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>DAS
>>>>
>>>>For direct replies replace nospam with schmetterling
>>>>---
> wrote in message
m...
>>>>[..]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Come on guys - lets have some more anomalies...........
>>>>>--
>>>>>
>>>>>Sir Hugh of Bognor
>>>>
>>>>[...]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>So would bottom posting.
>>>
>>>;-)
>>>
>>>Period.
>>
>>
>> Still moaning Fred.
>>
>> Some groups want top posting some want bottom posting - you get it where I feel
>> like putting it as does everyone else.
>>
>> Fred let me remind you that not everyone in the world is American nor speaks
>> American ENGLISH not even the aliens in Star trek or Stargate neither do you own
>> the newsgroups so it's "Hobson's choice"
>>
>> Hobson was a man that rented horses and you had to be satisfied with what he
>> gave you not what you wanted - bit like Hertz car rental really!
>>
>
>
>I never "moan" about top vs bottom posting. You must be confusing me
>with someone else.
>
>Here's my take. When replying to a thread with prior replys, one should
>reply in kind. In other words, if the first replier top posted, so
>should the second, and vice versa. Otherwise it makes it too damn hard
>to read the thread.
>
>The alternative is to "fix" the prior reply order to whatever your
>preference is.
>
>The alternative alternative is to trim all other replies and only add
>your own reply where you want it.
>
>The only one I really don't like is top posting a previously bottom
>posted reply or bottom posting a previously top posted reply. Hence you
>may see the irony of my bottom posted reply to you? Do you need a
>smiley face here?

No! I took it as a cynical and amusing observation.
--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

In article >,
Fred W > wrote:
> If past history is an accurate indicator of future performance, we will
> soon hear Dave pipe up about how SMG is really just an automatic...

If it quacks like a duck it's a duck...

--
*If all is not lost, where the hell is it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article >,
> wrote:
> No Mark the weren't. They changed gear according to load and speed as do
> the electronic versions but neither are AUTOMATIC as they rely on
> outside influence to do it.

> A time switch is automatic,

It too relies on an outside influence. Someone to set it and something to
drive it - electricity or clockwork, etc.

> breathing is automatic.

It's under the control of the brain. All sorts of bodily sensors 'feed'
the brain which controls breathing.

Auto gearbox means it can operate without human control. Apart from
selecting drive obviously. ;-)

--
*Oh, what a tangled website we weave when first we practice *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.