How good IS BMW's 6 cylinder engine?

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:28:50 -0700, "bfd" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
. ..
>> In article >, bfd853
>> @comcast.net says...
>>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>> > In article >,
>>> > lid says...
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >I'm thinking of buying a 2006 or 2007 3 series. I was wondering what
>>> >> >the consensus is around here about BMW's engines. I had a bad
>>> >> >experience with my current car, an Audi 1.8 turbo, and don't want to
>>> >> >go
>>> >> >through that again. I've heard good things about BMW's 6 cylinder
>>> >> >motors. How do you folks feel? Thanks for your input.
>>> >>
>>> >> The BMW I6 is a sweet motor, and one of the main reason to buy a BMW.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > I think that everyone responding so far was in agreement...BMW makes a
>>> > great engine. That has always been my impression from what I've read
>>> > and heard. I am now looking for my next car...a BMW 3 series. Maybe
>>> > 2006 or 2007 since I can't quite see paying for a brandy new one. Any
>>> > options I should stay away from, or any I should definitiely get?
>>> > Once again, I appreciate all responses. Thanks to all.
>>>
>>> Easy, stay away from BMW NAV and idrive. Compared to the Japanese
>>> version,
>>> its garbage!
>>>
>>> What you should get: if you're buying new, definitely get the Xenon light
>>> option. At about $800, its a bargain. Further, a 5 or 6 speed manual is a
>>> must for any enthusiast. Moreover, don't forget the sports suspension.
>>> Are
>>> limited slip differentials still available? If so, get one!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> What is wrong with the NAV system? I've heard that it takes a little
>> bit to get used to, but is there also a defect in the system, or another
>> reason to stay away from it?
>
>What's wrong with the NAV? Have you tried one? I say go try a BMW NAV
>system, then check out anything from Lexus, Nissan, or Honda. Even Jaguar
>was smart enough to purchase the same NAV system used by Lexus (Nippon Denso
>made). The big difference, in the Japanese cars, you get either touch screen
>or voice command NAV system. Works like a charm. BMW, now how do I work that
>idrive thing again? Try them both, then get back to us.

If you specify the pro or Hi version as in the 7 series (it is an option) and
voice command you get pretty coloured maps (otherwise just an arrow) and the
ability to voice program it from the steering wheel as with using the built in
bluetooth phone system - all available from the steering wheel voice control
button.

*Ping -
Dial name (or number)
State name
"Fred mobile"
dialing "Fred mobile"
Do you want to dial now?
Yes
Ring ring.....

or

*ping
NEW destination
state destination
New York (or wherever)
it that "New York New York or New Your England (8>))
etc etc.
Join the main road... turn right at the next junction, turn right in 200
yards...

Brilliant -- especially getting me through Paris (France) in the rush hour.
>
>> Also, how is the 6 speed automatic tranny? I have a manual shift car
>> right now, and I need a break, so I am thinking automatic.
>
>OK, if you really want an auto tranny, Roundel says that the new ZF6HP19TU
>six-speed automatic, found in the new 335i and 535i, is fantastic and works
>better than the E60 M5 SMG. The only thing is make sure you change the fluid
>every what 100k miles or so, if you plan to keep the car long term.
>
>Personally, I like a nice manual tranny with some good synthetic fluid from
>Redline or Purple Royal. Changed every 25-30K miles, its a nice and smooth
>shift!
>
--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:49:12 -0400, "Mike" > wrote:

>Anyone else get a valve lifter ticking in the E90 I6 (2007 330), when engine
>is cold?
>
>Goes away after 5 min or so.

Sticky lifter - there is some gunk on the market to flush the crap out of lifter
galleries and other small orifices.

Worked on my step daughters 318i and my friends 528 so should work on the 330.

>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike
>
> wrote in message
. ..
>> I'm thinking of buying a 2006 or 2007 3 series. I was wondering what
>> the consensus is around here about BMW's engines. I had a bad
>> experience with my current car, an Audi 1.8 turbo, and don't want to go
>> through that again. I've heard good things about BMW's 6 cylinder
>> motors. How do you folks feel? Thanks for your input.
>
--

Sir Hugh of Bognor

The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys.

Intelligence is not knowing the answer but knowing where and how to find it!

Hugh Gundersen

Bognor Regis, W.Sussex, England, UK

On Aug 30, 8:39 am, "Pete" > wrote:
> "Chom_Noamsky" wrote
>
> > You will NOT regret a manual tranny... easy shifts, smooth....
>
> In all honesty, the manual on my 530i (e39) is the most finnicky, difficult
> transmission I have ever owned or driven (many). You have to be extra slow
> releasing the clutch if you want to do it smoothly, and even then sometimes
> you end up jerking the car. There is something about the clutch pedal
> spring weight that just misleads a driver letting him know that the pedal
> has already been released while the in reality the clutch has not yet
> engaged. And I am not alone in this observation... a lot of e39 guys on
> various internet forums complain of the same.
>
> This is after I removed the CDV. Before that, it was even less predictable,
> although slightly less jerky.

I *hate* driving my 2001 M3 around town - the gearbox is like driving
a truck. My (auto) 740 is faster and much much more comfortable.
Manual boxes are fine but around town etc I'm more than happy with my
auto.

In article . com>,
adder1969 > wrote:
> I *hate* driving my 2001 M3 around town - the gearbox is like driving
> a truck. My (auto) 740 is faster and much much more comfortable.
> Manual boxes are fine but around town etc I'm more than happy with my
> auto.

A true manual - complete with clutch pedal - which had a decent auto
function for town use would be a truly great invention. Of course
forgetting to use the clutch pedal when you reverted to manual might be
likely. ;-)

I once had two near identical cars - one auto, one manual. With the
gearlever knob feeling exactly the same and in the same place. Caused me
lots of problems. The worst being stamping on the brake on the auto when
it seemed like time to change gear. ;-)

I don't have the same problem swapping between my normal auto and a
different make/model of manual.

--
*How come you never hear about gruntled employees? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"daytripper" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:28:57 -0400, pltrgyst >
> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 29 Aug 2007 10:01:36 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article >,
>>> bfd > wrote:
>>>> Further, a 5 or 6 speed manual is a must for any enthusiast.
>>>
>>>What makes you think enthusiastic drivers don't like autos? I am and I
>>>do.
>>
>>"Enthusiast" implies a degree of enthusiasm for the activity and precision
>>control of driving which is well beyond that which can be exhibited with
>>an
>>automatic transmission.
>
> Oh boy, here we go....

The OP was asking about small straight sixes. For the smallest of these the
power is reasonable but the torque is not so great. These are usually
better off with a manual transmission, since the clutch is small and light,
and with an auto lots of oomph would be lost in the torque converter.

Conclusion for a small straight six BMW get the manual and enjoy.

For a larger engine the clutch needs to be bigger, is harder to use, and
unless you want to burn it out or break things it is best to wait for the
revs to line up before hitting the throttle again. They are quite good on
the open road, but hard work in town or traffic. I have had several large
engine cars and they stack up like this

1970's

BL 2200 4sp Manual Poor. Undergeared in top.
Triumph 2.5TC 4sp Man + OD Good. Overdrive nice when touring*.

1980's

2 off Rover 3500SD1 (V8) 5sp Manual good, but heavy clutch
2 off BMW 735i (i6) 5sp Manual good, but heavy clutch

1990's by mid 90's 7 series with manuals were very rare.

BMW 735i (i6) 4sp Auto adequate (bought on medical advice after two
broken ankles).

2000's

BMW 740i (V8) 5sp switchable auto good, but not quite as good as a
manual
BMW 735i(V8) 5sp 'steptronic' excellent, probably better than a manual

I haven't tried either the 6 speed manual (available in 645i) or 6 speed
auto, but I understand both are very good.

Conclusion. Unless you are a driving fanatic (as opposed to an enthusiast)
then for recent big engine BMW's auto is best.



* it was possible to overspeed the engine by dropping out of overdrive 3rd
at > 100mph - modern autos won't do this.

In article >,
R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
> The OP was asking about small straight sixes. For the smallest of these
> the power is reasonable but the torque is not so great. These are
> usually better off with a manual transmission, since the clutch is
> small and light, and with an auto lots of oomph would be lost in the
> torque converter.

And I thought the purpose of a torque convertor was to increase torque at
low revs. You live and learn. ;-)

--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
>> The OP was asking about small straight sixes. For the smallest of these
>> the power is reasonable but the torque is not so great. These are
>> usually better off with a manual transmission, since the clutch is
>> small and light, and with an auto lots of oomph would be lost in the
>> torque converter.
>
> And I thought the purpose of a torque convertor was to increase torque at
> low revs. You live and learn. ;-)

Maybe it does, but the torque convertor and auto gearbox consume some of the
output of the engine (a manual is by comparison very efficient). For a big
engine this is only a few percent, but for a small one the effect is much
more noticable (as you will see if you compare the acceleration and top
speed of cars which come with both).

For instance

0-100kmph

Manual Auto Difference
116i 10.2 11.2 10%
325i 6.7 7.1 5%
525i 7.1 7.7 8%
330i 6.1 6.3 3%
650i Sport 5.1 5.2 2%

At the small end most competent drivers will be able to drive quicker in the
manual than the automatic and would certainly notice the difference.

At the top end few drivers would be able to do better in the manual than the
auto, would risk damaging the engine, and would probably need to switch the
ASC off (and spin the wheels).

Even a Gran Prix car with the best driver in the world does a better
standing start with launch control than with the driver driving...

>
> --
> *The statement below is true.
>
> Dave Plowman London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article >,
R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
> Maybe it does, but the torque convertor and auto gearbox consume some of
> the output of the engine (a manual is by comparison very efficient).
> For a big engine this is only a few percent, but for a small one the
> effect is much more noticable (as you will see if you compare the
> acceleration and top speed of cars which come with both).

> For instance

> 0-100kmph

> Manual Auto Difference 116i
> 10.2 11.2 10% 325i 6.7
> 7.1 5% 525i 7.1 7.7
> 8% 330i 6.1 6.3 3% 650i
> Sport 5.1 5.2 2%

Whilst this is true the larger cars usually have more sophisticated
autos. With a six (or more) speed auto, the TC can be locked out apart
from starting off and to cushion changes.

> At the small end most competent drivers will be able to drive quicker in
> the manual than the automatic and would certainly notice the difference.

Small cars also tend to have more pleasant to use gearboxes and clutches.
The bigger they get generally the more notchy the shift and heavier the
clutch.

> At the top end few drivers would be able to do better in the manual than
> the auto, would risk damaging the engine, and would probably need to
> switch the ASC off (and spin the wheels).

Interesting that Jaguar for a while only supplied a (very good) TC auto
on their XK - but the replacement I was reading about the other day will
have a true manual option.

Of course BMW have at last seen sense and will be replacing their clunky
SMG transmission with a twin clutch type so my objection to those will
hopefully be done with - a smooth shifting auto with the efficiency of a
manual.

--
*When it rains, why don't sheep shrink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

You will, in heavy city traffic.

OP should consider what driving types he has.

DAS

--
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---
"Chom_Noamsky" > wrote in message
.. .

> You will NOT regret a manual tranny... easy shifts, smooth.... if you know
[...]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:54:01 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> wrote:

>In article >,
> R. Mark Clayton > wrote:
>> The OP was asking about small straight sixes. For the smallest of these
>> the power is reasonable but the torque is not so great. These are
>> usually better off with a manual transmission, since the clutch is
>> small and light, and with an auto lots of oomph would be lost in the
>> torque converter.
>
>And I thought the purpose of a torque convertor was to increase torque at
>low revs. You live and learn. ;-)

I always thought that "torque converter" is a bit of a misnomer.
"Torque multiplier" is a better name for it, given what it does.