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  #1  
Old March 27th 06, 10:28 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
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Default customer service

Regular readers may remember me ranting about a cambelt failure on a 156GTA.
To cut a long story short, I had suggested that I had had a bad deal, having
been charged over £2000 to be told that there was "no damage". Having
written in October and failed to make contact with anyone until December, I
was then promised a letter. Nothing. On January 31st I eventually managed to
speak to a "customer service executive" who offered me a sum of money as a
goodwill gesture. He apologised profusely about the lack of communication
and promised me a formal offer by recorded delivery within 48 Hours. Guess
what? Nothing. 4 weeks later I made contact again and received an e-mail
asking me to accept the offer. I replied immediately. Nothing. I rang last
week. "What e-mail?" I received a phone call on Thursday promising me
another call from someone who would sort it out immediately. Nothing.
In the meantime, I have had 3 phonecalls and 5 letters inviting me to drive
a 159. So- a cambelt failure on September 1st, well within the recommended
limit, on a car exclusively serviced by an Alfa Dealer. £2000 out of pocket,
£300 car hire (it took them over3 weeks to find out there was nothing wrong)
and treated with absolute contempt. I've had 7 Alfas (and a few Fiats and a
Lancia) and I deluded myself that having a GTA, being quite rare, made me -
at the very least- a customer worth keeping. God help 'em.


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  #2  
Old March 27th 06, 10:59 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
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Default customer service


"Steve Byatt" > wrote in message
...
> Regular readers may remember me ranting about a cambelt failure on a
> 156GTA. To cut a long story short, ...<snip>


I couldn't agree more than with your entire story...

I had a clutch failiure at 50k on a car that had an alfa full service
history - the car was only 2.5 years old - i had it from new. Alfa UK didn;t
want to know and wanted to charge me £500 to open it up. Then it could have
been another £900 to replace the clutch or another £500 to put it back
together.

I went to my local garagae who removed and replaced the entire clutch and
put it back together for £400 - and he even waived the pick up fee he said
he was going to charge.

Subsequently I have sold my alfa and I will be going elswhere in the
future...

Dom


  #3  
Old March 27th 06, 11:15 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
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Posts: n/a
Default customer service

Steve Byatt > wrote:

> Regular readers may remember me ranting about a cambelt failure on a 156GTA.
> To cut a long story short, I had suggested that I had had a bad deal, having
> been charged over £2000 to be told that there was "no damage". Having
> written in October and failed to make contact with anyone until December, I
> was then promised a letter. Nothing. On January 31st I eventually managed to
> speak to a "customer service executive" who offered me a sum of money as a
> goodwill gesture. He apologised profusely about the lack of communication
> and promised me a formal offer by recorded delivery within 48 Hours. Guess
> what? Nothing. 4 weeks later I made contact again and received an e-mail
> asking me to accept the offer. I replied immediately. Nothing. I rang last
> week. "What e-mail?" I received a phone call on Thursday promising me
> another call from someone who would sort it out immediately. Nothing.
> In the meantime, I have had 3 phonecalls and 5 letters inviting me to drive
> a 159. So- a cambelt failure on September 1st, well within the recommended
> limit, on a car exclusively serviced by an Alfa Dealer. £2000 out of pocket,
> £300 car hire (it took them over3 weeks to find out there was nothing wrong)
> and treated with absolute contempt. I've had 7 Alfas (and a few Fiats and a
> Lancia) and I deluded myself that having a GTA, being quite rare, made me -
> at the very least- a customer worth keeping. God help 'em.


OK, admittedly Alfa UK customer service is terrible, but, honestly,
didn't you do *any* research on the car before you bought it? - I
thought almost everyone knew that the cambelt change interval in the
handbook was a work of fiction?

In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere between
50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
than a new engine.
--
Steve H 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
http://www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - MZ ETZ300 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 2.0 TSpark Lusso - Fiat Marea 20v HLX - COSOC KOTL
BoTAFOT #87 - BoTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #
  #4  
Old March 28th 06, 12:30 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
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Posts: n/a
Default customer service


> In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
> manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere between
> 50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
> than a new engine.


I disagree, the change interval specified by the manufacturer should be well
before the required time to change, else they are leaving themselves open
( or so you would think! - but they use the old trick of its a moving part)
.. If a belt needs to be changed before this guideline then the company is at
fault as they have supplied a faulty part. It should last as quoted!!!

If a buyer follows the handbook service intervals I see no reason why a
cambelt should not last at least the guideline mileage. Obviously this
should be open to interpritation...

i.e. 74,000 miles or 3 years. Which ever comes first etc...

Buying a new car should mean that you should not have to change anything on
it in the first three years... i.e. they should have an unlimited mileage
warinty on all parts!!! They get away with too much - IMHO anyway...

Dom


  #5  
Old March 28th 06, 10:52 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
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Default customer service


Domestos wrote:
> > In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
> > manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere between
> > 50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
> > than a new engine.

>
> I disagree, the change interval specified by the manufacturer should be well
> before the required time to change, else they are leaving themselves open
> ( or so you would think! - but they use the old trick of its a moving part)
> . If a belt needs to be changed before this guideline then the company isat
> fault as they have supplied a faulty part. It should last as quoted!!!
>
> If a buyer follows the handbook service intervals I see no reason why a
> cambelt should not last at least the guideline mileage. Obviously this
> should be open to interpritation...
>
> i.e. 74,000 miles or 3 years. Which ever comes first etc...
>

I totaly agree,
Has anyone here ever had a letter from Alfa Romeo to tell them that the
belts needed changing before the mileage stated in the handbook? I have
never had one.
I recently got in touch with Alfa GB about recalls I have not received,
they said they would look into it and I would hear from them within 48
hours. that was 4 weeks ago and I have heard nothing. While servicing
my car last week, the dealer decided to grease the bonnet catch as they
said some people had had a bit of trouble with this item. But still no
word from Alfa Romeo.
John. UK.

> Buying a new car should mean that you should not have to change anything on
> it in the first three years... i.e. they should have an unlimited mileage
> warinty on all parts!!! They get away with too much - IMHO anyway...
>
> Dom


  #6  
Old March 28th 06, 10:29 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
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Posts: n/a
Default customer service

I had the very same problem with a toyota celica, full toyota service
history at the garage
i brought the car from.
Anyway, like you i had a cambelt go west well within the life span of a cam
belt, and like you
i got no help at all from toyota!!
So i took the dealership to the small claims court................and won!!!

£1638.00 + costs



"John, UK." > wrote in message
ups.com...

Domestos wrote:
> > In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
> > manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere between
> > 50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
> > than a new engine.

>
> I disagree, the change interval specified by the manufacturer should be
> well
> before the required time to change, else they are leaving themselves open
> ( or so you would think! - but they use the old trick of its a moving
> part)
> . If a belt needs to be changed before this guideline then the company is
> at
> fault as they have supplied a faulty part. It should last as quoted!!!
>
> If a buyer follows the handbook service intervals I see no reason why a
> cambelt should not last at least the guideline mileage. Obviously this
> should be open to interpritation...
>
> i.e. 74,000 miles or 3 years. Which ever comes first etc...
>

I totaly agree,
Has anyone here ever had a letter from Alfa Romeo to tell them that the
belts needed changing before the mileage stated in the handbook? I have
never had one.
I recently got in touch with Alfa GB about recalls I have not received,
they said they would look into it and I would hear from them within 48
hours. that was 4 weeks ago and I have heard nothing. While servicing
my car last week, the dealer decided to grease the bonnet catch as they
said some people had had a bit of trouble with this item. But still no
word from Alfa Romeo.
John. UK.

> Buying a new car should mean that you should not have to change anything
> on
> it in the first three years... i.e. they should have an unlimited mileage
> warinty on all parts!!! They get away with too much - IMHO anyway...
>
> Dom



  #7  
Old March 29th 06, 06:45 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default customer service

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:30:10 GMT, "Domestos" >
wrote:

>> In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
>> manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere between
>> 50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
>> than a new engine.

>
>I disagree, the change interval specified by the manufacturer should be well
>before the required time to change, else they are leaving themselves open
>( or so you would think! - but they use the old trick of its a moving part)
>. If a belt needs to be changed before this guideline then the company is at
>fault as they have supplied a faulty part. It should last as quoted!!!
>
>If a buyer follows the handbook service intervals I see no reason why a
>cambelt should not last at least the guideline mileage. Obviously this
>should be open to interpritation...
>
>i.e. 74,000 miles or 3 years. Which ever comes first etc...
>
>Buying a new car should mean that you should not have to change anything on
>it in the first three years... i.e. they should have an unlimited mileage
>warinty on all parts!!!


What - even tyres?

Seriously, I don't think it's sensible to expect manufacturers to
guarantee all parts for the service interval. There is a sort of
bell-curve for part life, and some parts will fail early. If we demanded
guarantees for everything, manufacturers would respond by specifying
much more frequent changes and we'd probably end up worse off.

But for parts where failure means danger (brakes) or damage which goes
well beyond the cost of a replacement part (cam-belt) then I think it is
reasonable to demand guarantees. [1] And in those cases I think using
the small claims court is an excellent idea.


[1] Or alternatively a means by which an owner without special skills or
equipment can check for wear/consumption regularly - as with tyres and
oil.

--
Stephen Poley
  #8  
Old March 29th 06, 09:57 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default customer service

> "John, UK." > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> Domestos wrote:
>> > In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
>> > manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere
>> > between
>> > 50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
>> > than a new engine.

>>
>> I disagree, the change interval specified by the manufacturer should be
>> well
>> before the required time to change, else they are leaving themselves open
>> ( or so you would think! - but they use the old trick of its a moving
>> part)
>> . If a belt needs to be changed before this guideline then the company is
>> at
>> fault as they have supplied a faulty part. It should last as quoted!!!
>>
>> If a buyer follows the handbook service intervals I see no reason why a
>> cambelt should not last at least the guideline mileage. Obviously this
>> should be open to interpritation...
>>
>> i.e. 74,000 miles or 3 years. Which ever comes first etc...
>>

> I totaly agree,
> Has anyone here ever had a letter from Alfa Romeo to tell them that the
> belts needed changing before the mileage stated in the handbook? I have
> never had one.
> I recently got in touch with Alfa GB about recalls I have not received,
> they said they would look into it and I would hear from them within 48
> hours. that was 4 weeks ago and I have heard nothing. While servicing
> my car last week, the dealer decided to grease the bonnet catch as they
> said some people had had a bit of trouble with this item. But still no
> word from Alfa Romeo.
> John. UK.
>
>> Buying a new car should mean that you should not have to change anything
>> on
>> it in the first three years... i.e. they should have an unlimited mileage
>> warinty on all parts!!! They get away with too much - IMHO anyway...
>>
>> Dom

>

"Muttsdanglers" > wrote in message
.uk...
>I had the very same problem with a toyota celica, full toyota service
>history at the garage
> i brought the car from.
> Anyway, like you i had a cambelt go west well within the life span of a
> cam belt, and like you
> i got no help at all from toyota!!
> So i took the dealership to the small claims court................and
> won!!!
>
> £1638.00 + costs
>
>
>

I was going to say, that would be route I went down if I had the problems
the OP has...


  #9  
Old March 29th 06, 05:08 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default customer service

Hi Stephen

Your right, we can't expect the manufacturers to guarantee to cover every
part, but when the manufacturer
states the mileage or timespan in which a part should be replaced it then
becomes a whole new ballgame!!
My lawyer argued that if they set these dates / mileages and i followed the
service plan to the letter, use
all (in my case) Toyota parts supplied and fitted by the main dealer, then
that made the toyota dealership totally responsible for all of the repairs
to my car when the cambelt snapped 10k earlier than it should have done!!
So i ended up getting all of my money back plus the costs!!

Paul


"Stephen Poley" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:30:10 GMT, "Domestos" >
> wrote:
>
>>> In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
>>> manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere between
>>> 50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
>>> than a new engine.

>>
>>I disagree, the change interval specified by the manufacturer should be
>>well
>>before the required time to change, else they are leaving themselves open
>>( or so you would think! - but they use the old trick of its a moving
>>part)
>>. If a belt needs to be changed before this guideline then the company is
>>at
>>fault as they have supplied a faulty part. It should last as quoted!!!
>>
>>If a buyer follows the handbook service intervals I see no reason why a
>>cambelt should not last at least the guideline mileage. Obviously this
>>should be open to interpritation...
>>
>>i.e. 74,000 miles or 3 years. Which ever comes first etc...
>>
>>Buying a new car should mean that you should not have to change anything
>>on
>>it in the first three years... i.e. they should have an unlimited mileage
>>warinty on all parts!!!

>
> What - even tyres?
>
> Seriously, I don't think it's sensible to expect manufacturers to
> guarantee all parts for the service interval. There is a sort of
> bell-curve for part life, and some parts will fail early. If we demanded
> guarantees for everything, manufacturers would respond by specifying
> much more frequent changes and we'd probably end up worse off.
>
> But for parts where failure means danger (brakes) or damage which goes
> well beyond the cost of a replacement part (cam-belt) then I think it is
> reasonable to demand guarantees. [1] And in those cases I think using
> the small claims court is an excellent idea.
>
>
> [1] Or alternatively a means by which an owner without special skills or
> equipment can check for wear/consumption regularly - as with tyres and
> oil.
>
> --
> Stephen Poley



  #10  
Old April 1st 06, 12:00 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default customer service

Apart from the inference that I'm stupid- thanks for the responses. My gripe
is with the company and their total disdain. To get fobbed off repeatedly
since last September is appalling. In my original posting (just after the
belt failed), I explained that I had experienced a loss of compression- took
the car in to the dealer and asked for their advice about the cambelts ('cos
that's what I originally thought had happened). They told me that there was
not a problem and that there was no need to replace the belt early.. they
claimed that the cambelt horror stories were restricted to the 4 cylinder
engines. Having had a belt failure on a GTV (inside warranty and well, well
before the recommended mileage) and no problems on the 3 V6 cars I had
previously owned, I believed them.
OOps.. I now realise why Stephen H called me a fool. Obviously for
believeing an Alfa Dealer... or perhaps for just persisting with Alfa even
after 20 years of driving them and being treated like an idiot by them.

"Muttsdanglers" > wrote in message
o.uk...
> Hi Stephen
>
> Your right, we can't expect the manufacturers to guarantee to cover every
> part, but when the manufacturer
> states the mileage or timespan in which a part should be replaced it then
> becomes a whole new ballgame!!
> My lawyer argued that if they set these dates / mileages and i followed
> the service plan to the letter, use
> all (in my case) Toyota parts supplied and fitted by the main dealer, then
> that made the toyota dealership totally responsible for all of the repairs
> to my car when the cambelt snapped 10k earlier than it should have done!!
> So i ended up getting all of my money back plus the costs!!
>
> Paul
>
>
> "Stephen Poley" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 23:30:10 GMT, "Domestos" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> In fact, anyone who follows the change interval specified by any
>>>> manufacturer is a fool, IMHO. I always change my belts somewhere
>>>> between
>>>> 50% and 75% of the quoted mileage - a £300 belt change is a lot cheaper
>>>> than a new engine.
>>>
>>>I disagree, the change interval specified by the manufacturer should be
>>>well
>>>before the required time to change, else they are leaving themselves open
>>>( or so you would think! - but they use the old trick of its a moving
>>>part)
>>>. If a belt needs to be changed before this guideline then the company is
>>>at
>>>fault as they have supplied a faulty part. It should last as quoted!!!
>>>
>>>If a buyer follows the handbook service intervals I see no reason why a
>>>cambelt should not last at least the guideline mileage. Obviously this
>>>should be open to interpritation...
>>>
>>>i.e. 74,000 miles or 3 years. Which ever comes first etc...
>>>
>>>Buying a new car should mean that you should not have to change anything
>>>on
>>>it in the first three years... i.e. they should have an unlimited mileage
>>>warinty on all parts!!!

>>
>> What - even tyres?
>>
>> Seriously, I don't think it's sensible to expect manufacturers to
>> guarantee all parts for the service interval. There is a sort of
>> bell-curve for part life, and some parts will fail early. If we demanded
>> guarantees for everything, manufacturers would respond by specifying
>> much more frequent changes and we'd probably end up worse off.
>>
>> But for parts where failure means danger (brakes) or damage which goes
>> well beyond the cost of a replacement part (cam-belt) then I think it is
>> reasonable to demand guarantees. [1] And in those cases I think using
>> the small claims court is an excellent idea.
>>
>>
>> [1] Or alternatively a means by which an owner without special skills or
>> equipment can check for wear/consumption regularly - as with tyres and
>> oil.
>>
>> --
>> Stephen Poley

>
>



 




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