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#1
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home bodywork/paint/rust protection question
This is going to sound like an obscure problem, but it's *my* problem,
so I'm going to give it a shot. I'm 99% certain that I'm going to be buying another old car in the near future. It's a '64 Studebaker, which are notorious for front fender rust-out. Now I would like to actually *drive* this car, and while it does come with NOS fenders, I'm not sure that they would last without some tlc. The problem is this, there's a vertical brace at the back of the fender that bolts to the body, the "skin" of the fender is crimped over this brace like a door skin, making a nice inaccessable "pocket" for rust to form in. I posted a query about this previously and someone suggested pouring in and sloshing around foundation coating to seal that area, and the more I think about it I like that idea. But I would like to have some kind of sealer on the metal below that, I don't particularly trust the factory black "primer" - I think it was probably just intended to keep the fender from rusting while it was sitting on the shelf in dry storage, and nothing more. Here's what I'm thinking - chemically strip the whole fender, including the "hidden" area with aircraft stripper, then etch the whole thing with a muriatic acid solution or other acid, then finally follow up with some DuPont or similar metal prep solution. Then paint the whole fender with an etching primer and/or epoxy primer (is the etching primer really a necessary step? or does anyone make an epoxy etching primer?) Here's where the questions come in, are there any primer/sealers that would be suitable for *pouring* into a hidden area and sloshing around to provide a good coating? Obviously I care not a bit about finish, this is an area that you can't even see unless you stick your head under the wheel well, and even the bits that you *can* see will probably be coated with undercoat after paint. Anyone more familiar with paint products that can give me some advice? If I were going to pour some primer/sealer in there, should I cut it with thinner or just pour it in undiluted? thanks, nate |
#2
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On 22 Oct 2004 07:57:14 -0700, (Nate Nagel) wrote:
If you want rust protection that really works: www.por15.com It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it. |
#3
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"John Ings" > wrote in message
... > On 22 Oct 2004 07:57:14 -0700, (Nate Nagel) wrote: > > If you want rust protection that really works: > > www.por15.com > > It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it. > > > .....and swear AT it when they get it on their hands (there's a reason why they tell you to wear gloves when applying it) I've used it - if you follow the directions to the letter it's excellent - just make sure it's topcoated with their primer because very little paint adheres to cured POR15 (think of it as how do they get the non-stick coating to stick to the frying pan.....) Cheers! Steve Sears 1980 Audi 5k - POR black on various spots 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes - POR silver on the floor, POR in the gas tank..... (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply) |
#4
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John Ings wrote: > > On 22 Oct 2004 07:57:14 -0700, (Nate Nagel) wrote: > > If you want rust protection that really works: > > www.por15.com > > It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it. I just saw EFR in JC Whitney that claims to be similar http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/C...searchbtn.y=19 .. Anyone have experience with this? |
#5
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:36:22 -0500, bob > wrote:
>> If you want rust protection that really works: >> >> www.por15.com >> >> It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it. > >I just saw EFR in JC Whitney that claims to be similar >http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/C...searchbtn.y=19 >. Anyone have experience with this? "Ultraviolet-sensitive" and "must be second-coated with any other paint to protect finish from sunlight." That sort of hints that it might be similar. POR-15 is distantly related to crazy-glue. It's a hard plasic that is truly impervious to penetration by water. You would think that paint is waterproof, but it isn't completely so, and even 99% waterproof isn't good enough if you're driving in brine slush. The "must be coated" warning by-the-way, is only about appearance. POR-15 left uncoated and exposed to UV becomes weathered looking and greyish, but its integrity is not compromised. Bonus: POR-15 and fibreglass cloth works as well or better than epoxy and fibreglass cloth. |
#6
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John Ings wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:36:22 -0500, bob > wrote: > > >>>If you want rust protection that really works: >>> >>>www.por15.com >>> >>>It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it. >> >>I just saw EFR in JC Whitney that claims to be similar >>http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/C...searchbtn.y=19 >>. Anyone have experience with this? > > > "Ultraviolet-sensitive" and "must be second-coated with any other > paint to protect finish from sunlight." > > That sort of hints that it might be similar. POR-15 is distantly > related to crazy-glue. It's a hard plasic that is truly impervious to > penetration by water. You would think that paint is waterproof, but it > isn't completely so, and even 99% waterproof isn't good enough if > you're driving in brine slush. > > The "must be coated" warning by-the-way, is only about appearance. > POR-15 left uncoated and exposed to UV becomes weathered looking and > greyish, but its integrity is not compromised. > > Bonus: POR-15 and fibreglass cloth works as well or better than epoxy > and fibreglass cloth. > I'll second all those comments, I've done the 'glass trick too. I guess I'm just a little concerned about adhesion to metal that I have no way of roughing up, or really prepping any way other than chemically for that matter. nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#7
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On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:31:44 -0400, Nate Nagel >
wrote: > I guess >I'm just a little concerned about adhesion to metal that I have no way >of roughing up, or really prepping any way other than chemically for >that matter. Then give it an etch with naval jelly or other phosphoric acid product and then a good rinse. If you think there's already a light rust in there, just POR-15 it. POR-15 likes rusted surfaces. |
#8
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What you need is:
An anaerobic type rust proofing compound. Stripping inside a hidden area would be suicide to the part. Fiberglass-Evercoat used to make a rustproofing called: "System 3" Now you'd do fine with Rusfree's 1000-B Rustproofing, it gets into the tiny nooks and crannies. It's not undercoating, it's a mixture of urethanes and candle wax, which adheres well, and will not allow moisture to penetrate to the base primer that the factory applied on those fenders. Which was a cheap industrial primer in those days, just to keep the part from oxidizing on the shelf. Back at that time, we used to have to strip that primer, then coat with Dupont 70 or 80-S or Ditzler/PPG Acrylic Lacquer Primer. When there were no such thing as rust proofing, we used to use roof coating, but that too dried like undercoating and cracked. Only to allow water under it and cause more rust than if it weren't there at all. Refinish King "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message ... > John Ings wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 14:36:22 -0500, bob > wrote: >> >> >>>>If you want rust protection that really works: >>>> >>>>www.por15.com >>>> >>>>It's expensive, but classic car restorers swear by it. >>> >>>I just saw EFR in JC Whitney that claims to be similar >>>http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/C...searchbtn.y=19 >>>. Anyone have experience with this? >> >> >> "Ultraviolet-sensitive" and "must be second-coated with any other >> paint to protect finish from sunlight." >> >> That sort of hints that it might be similar. POR-15 is distantly >> related to crazy-glue. It's a hard plasic that is truly impervious to >> penetration by water. You would think that paint is waterproof, but it >> isn't completely so, and even 99% waterproof isn't good enough if >> you're driving in brine slush. >> >> The "must be coated" warning by-the-way, is only about appearance. >> POR-15 left uncoated and exposed to UV becomes weathered looking and >> greyish, but its integrity is not compromised. Bonus: POR-15 and >> fibreglass cloth works as well or better than epoxy >> and fibreglass cloth. >> > > I'll second all those comments, I've done the 'glass trick too. I guess > I'm just a little concerned about adhesion to metal that I have no way of > roughing up, or really prepping any way other than chemically for that > matter. > > nate > > -- > replace "fly" with "com" to reply. > http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
#9
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Just this past weekend, I saw a completely unrusted *1978 Plymouth Caravelle "woodie" wagon*. That is a Canadian-market badge-up of the F-body Plymouth Volare/Dodge Aspen. These cars, while they weren't *quite* as bad as the Chevrolet Vega, were practically made out of compressed rust. One seldom sees such a car as this in any condition here in Toronto, which sees heavy road salt four to five months out of the year. There was a "Rustproofed with Waxoyl" sticker in the lower left corner of the windshield; the condition of the car is quite a high recommendation for that product. FWIW, of course. |
#10
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Daniel J. Stern wrote:
> Just this past weekend, I saw a completely unrusted *1978 Plymouth > Caravelle "woodie" wagon*. That is a Canadian-market badge-up of the > F-body Plymouth Volare/Dodge Aspen. These cars, while they weren't *quite* > as bad as the Chevrolet Vega, were practically made out of compressed > rust. One seldom sees such a car as this in any condition here in Toronto, > which sees heavy road salt four to five months out of the year. > > There was a "Rustproofed with Waxoyl" sticker in the lower left corner of > the windshield; the condition of the car is quite a high recommendation > for that product. > > FWIW, of course. Yeesh. Yeah, I remember those things... when I was a *real* little kid, I remember the neighbors across the street bought a Volare wagon. The front fenders were literally rusted through in a year. One of the only cars I've seen that seems to rust faster than an old Studebaker. This Waxoyl stuff, is it a paraffin based coating like the Germans are using now? I like that stuff. nate -- replace "fly" with "com" to reply. http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
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