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'01 LW300 groaning



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 25th 11, 12:52 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Oppie[_7_]
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Posts: 175
Default '01 LW300 groaning

started getting a groaning sound from the engine that varies with rpm.
Sounded originally like the power steering fluid was low but all the fluids
are OK. Auto transmission fluid was a bit low and topped it up (there is no
dipstick and checking level is a pain for the DIY mechanic). Shifts better
now but groan is still there.

I'm thinking water pump bearings. Can't pin down the location yet. Oh well,
it's about due for timing belt change so will bite the bullet and have the
water pump changed at the same time. Got 180K on it. Original alternator and
A/C clutch so the bearings could be going in them also. Replaced the
serpentine belt tensioner about 50K ago with an OEM part.

I really also have to pull the intake to get to the spark plugs and
thermostat which need replacement. Haven't been able to find the correct
tool to remove the bands on all the rubber tubes that connect the intake
runners. At this point, if I can't find the right tool, will just remove the
clamps and replace with adjustable clamps, bailing wire or whatever just to
"git 'er done."
Oppie

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  #2  
Old August 25th 11, 01:32 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Ned Flanders[_2_]
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Posts: 5
Default '01 LW300 groaning

Oppie wrote:
> started getting a groaning sound from the engine that varies with rpm.
> Sounded originally like the power steering fluid was low but all the
> fluids are OK. Auto transmission fluid was a bit low and topped it up
> (there is no dipstick and checking level is a pain for the DIY
> mechanic). Shifts better now but groan is still there.
>
> I'm thinking water pump bearings. Can't pin down the location yet. Oh
> well, it's about due for timing belt change so will bite the bullet and
> have the water pump changed at the same time. Got 180K on it. Original
> alternator and A/C clutch so the bearings could be going in them also.
> Replaced the serpentine belt tensioner about 50K ago with an OEM part.
>
> I really also have to pull the intake to get to the spark plugs and
> thermostat which need replacement. Haven't been able to find the correct
> tool to remove the bands on all the rubber tubes that connect the intake
> runners. At this point, if I can't find the right tool, will just remove
> the clamps and replace with adjustable clamps, bailing wire or whatever
> just to "git 'er done."
> Oppie


Ahhhhhhhhh! You startled me! You really should warn people before you
post in this group. ;-)

You have covered off all of the things I would have suspected. Have you
tried to hold a vacuum hose up to your ear and isolate the sound?
  #3  
Old August 25th 11, 04:21 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Oppie[_7_]
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Posts: 175
Default '01 LW300 groaning

"Ned Flanders" > wrote in message
...
> Ahhhhhhhhh! You startled me! You really should warn people before you post
> in this group. ;-)
>
> You have covered off all of the things I would have suspected. Have you
> tried to hold a vacuum hose up to your ear and isolate the sound?


Sorry to startle you. Saturn may be dead as a company but many of their fine
products (albeit with a few quirks) live on. My uncle used to own a
Tucker...

I'm up in the country with limited tools right now. Hopefully things will
hold together for the 200 mile trip home.
Whole engine is like a sounding board and very difficult to pinpoint
location. I did try using a big screwdriver (handle end to ear) and touching
the blade to various places. Inconclusive so far.
Oppie

  #4  
Old September 4th 11, 01:19 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Oppie[_7_]
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Posts: 175
Default '01 LW300 groaning

Well, we made it home to White Plains, NY just in advance of hurricane
Irene. Pretty tame here, just lost a lot of leaves and a few small branches.
Some of the neighbors weren't so lucky. Spent most of last Sunday with chain
saw and re-lighting flooded out water heaters. Where we had been vacationing
in Ludlow, Vermont, there were major floods and road wash-outs. Was a good
call to head home a few days early.

Been tinkering and put a wrench to the serpentine belt tensioner while the
engine was running. loosening the belt caused the groan to diminish as the
belt slipped. Vibrations on the tensioner made it look like the tensioner
bearings had failed. Got a new assembly from AutoZone ($55 vs $110 for last
one through Saturn parts). Put the new part in and while I had the belt
loose, gave all the rotating components a wiggle. Sure enough the water pump
had some play. Put the belt on and groan was still there. Sometimes you get
off easy other times, not so...

Water pump is only another $50 or so from AutoZone (choice of rebuilt or new
Duralast - I'll go with the later). Installation is a headache so I'll set
aside a whole day to do it. Then again, timing belt is due for replacement
soon so may just let a shop do the whole shebang. Friend's shop charged me
$600 last time. Basically his cost. Too many special tools needed to change
timing belt with V6 DOHC. Can't justify the purchase of the tools though by
second use, is becoming more cost effective.

Oppie

  #5  
Old September 4th 11, 06:59 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Oppie[_7_]
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Posts: 175
Default '01 LW300 groaning

OK, taking a lunch break. New pump is in and I have to start torqueing and
reassembling now.
Didn't quite do it per the shop manual. Right front side of car is on a jack
stand, Floor jack with board over the saddle to protect the oil pan is under
the oil pan. This supports the engine while the right side engine mount is
removed.

Couldn't loosen the water pump pulley bolts with the engine mount in place
so took off the mount, loosened the bolts on the pulley and THEN took off
the belt. Engine moved a bit doing this but hopefully will line up again at
final assembly.

Oh, well, back to work before it rains...

  #6  
Old September 4th 11, 09:12 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Oppie[_7_]
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Posts: 175
Default '01 LW300 groaning

And SURYEY SAYS <ERK> It wasn't the water pump. Pump definitely needed
replacing so I can't kick about that. When I took out the old pump, it had
some play in the bearings and leaked oil out when I set it down on the
ground.

Now most likely candidate is the alternator. It's the original and I have
almost 180K on it so owes me absolutely nothing. Just another pain to get to
it...

On the positive side, the sound is definitely coming from one of the
accessories driven by the serpentine belt and is toward the rear of the
motor. The power steering pump (which was my first guess) and A/C compressor
bodies have only normal vibration; Alternator body has lots. That's not to
say it isn't the rack and pinion assembly. With this many miles on the
alternator, I'll replace it anyway.


  #7  
Old September 5th 11, 12:11 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Ned Flanders[_2_]
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Posts: 5
Default '01 LW300 groaning

Oppie wrote:
> And SURYEY SAYS <ERK> It wasn't the water pump. Pump definitely needed
> replacing so I can't kick about that. When I took out the old pump, it
> had some play in the bearings and leaked oil out when I set it down on
> the ground.
>
> Now most likely candidate is the alternator. It's the original and I
> have almost 180K on it so owes me absolutely nothing. Just another pain
> to get to it...
>
> On the positive side, the sound is definitely coming from one of the
> accessories driven by the serpentine belt and is toward the rear of the
> motor. The power steering pump (which was my first guess) and A/C
> compressor bodies have only normal vibration; Alternator body has lots.
> That's not to say it isn't the rack and pinion assembly. With this many
> miles on the alternator, I'll replace it anyway.
>
>


Sounds like a great way to spend the Labor Day weekend or as we say in
Canada Labour Day!

Good luck on the alternator!

  #8  
Old September 5th 11, 02:25 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Oppie[_7_]
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Posts: 175
Default '01 LW300 groaning

"Ned Flanders" > wrote in message
...
> Sounds like a great way to spend the Labor Day weekend or as we say in
> Canada Labour Day!
>
> Good luck on the alternator!


Unlike the tensioner and water pump that were in the $50 range, the
alternator is coming up as $215 plus core charge. <sigh>
Alternator is tucked way under the engine toward the rear. Don't even know
yet how difficult it is to get to. Shop manual didn't give much information.
I remember what a royal pain getting to the starter motor was when the
solenoid had fried (5 years ago).

The other good thing I forgot to mention is that while I had the timing belt
housing off to get to the water pump, I could see that the timing belt and
all the idlers were in good shape and well tensioned. I'll give it another
look next year.

.... I thought in Canada, it was Labrador day...
Where in Canada are you?

My son had permanently 'borrowed' my torque wrench. Went up the street to
one of the new neighbors to borrow his. They just moved in from Germany and
he works with Lufthansa at Kennedy Airport in NYC. He was proudly telling me
about Opel and how they designed the L-series.

  #9  
Old September 5th 11, 03:51 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Private
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Posts: 145
Default '01 LW300 groaning


"Oppie" > wrote in message
...
> And SURYEY SAYS <ERK> It wasn't the water pump. Pump definitely needed
> replacing so I can't kick about that. When I took out the old pump, it had
> some play in the bearings and leaked oil out when I set it down on the
> ground.
>
> Now most likely candidate is the alternator. It's the original and I have
> almost 180K on it so owes me absolutely nothing. Just another pain to get
> to it...
>
> On the positive side, the sound is definitely coming from one of the
> accessories driven by the serpentine belt and is toward the rear of the
> motor. The power steering pump (which was my first guess) and A/C
> compressor bodies have only normal vibration; Alternator body has lots.
> That's not to say it isn't the rack and pinion assembly. With this many
> miles on the alternator, I'll replace it anyway.
>


I recommend you use a proper mechanics stethoscope, the kind with a rod
attached to a small diaphragm. Touch the rod to suspected problem areas
while engine is running. It will really isolate sounds like bad bearings.
They are not expensive and are often available @ cheap tools R us. In a
pinch a short length of hose held to one ear can also be very helpful.

Good luck YMMV


  #10  
Old September 6th 11, 03:06 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.saturn
Oppie[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 175
Default '01 LW300 groaning

"Private" > wrote in message
...
>
> I recommend you use a proper mechanics stethoscope, the kind with a rod
> attached to a small diaphragm. Touch the rod to suspected problem areas
> while engine is running. It will really isolate sounds like bad bearings.
> They are not expensive and are often available @ cheap tools R us. In a
> pinch a short length of hose held to one ear can also be very helpful.
>
> Good luck YMMV

I had taken a long screwdriver putting the handle to my ear and touching the
long blade to bits and pieces.
Two problems though -
Can't quite see the blade while handle it to ear. Best to place it and then
put ear to handle.
Wife asked why I had a perfect circle of grease in my ear. Best to wipe down
the messy handle before using in this manner...

The engine with all it's solidly mounted accessories is a huge sounding
board. Sounds are pretty readily coupled throughout the package which makes
localizing a bit difficult.

Just ordered a torque wrench to replace the one my son 'borrowed'. Harbor
Freight had a half price deal over Labor day.

 




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