Timing Belt Idler Pulley question

On Jan 23, 3:11 pm, Natman > wrote:
> On 22 Jan 2007 21:46:31 -0800, wrote:
>
>
>
> >But, if the pulley is spinning - then it is spinning metal on metal,
> >vs. the tension pulley which spins freely and does not touch the metal
> >behind it. As for the idler pulley, I don't know how it could have
> >ever spun freely - the bolt head presses against the pulley - what
> >would sieze? Are we sure it should spin freely?The idler pulley has a center mounting piece about 1.25 inches in
> diameter. Outside of the center is the inner race of the bearing that
> remains stationary. The brown seal and the outer race of the bearing
> turn with the pulley.
>
> Yes the pulley HAS TO TURN. No question about it.
>
> The bolt should touch the center mount AND NOTHING ELSE. Judging by
> the mark on my old pulley the washer under the bolt was about 5/8" in
> diameter. If yours is so large that it touches anything else, you are
> using the wrong bolt / washer. Or possible you are trying to install
> the pulley upside down. The pulley shoud be installed with the
> projection in the center TOWARD the engine block.

I am installing it correctly - and to be on the safe side - I called
Mazda. They informed me that the idler pulley does NOT turn. The
tension pulley does turn.

He also may have mounted it on backwards and it is clamped up tight
against the waterpump housing !

Bruce Bing '03 LS

It should NEVER spin freely ! If it spins when you hold the center and
move the outer part, throw it in the trash! You should be able to turn
it and have some drag. If you can spin it like a bike wheel, the next
thing you can expect is the idler will come out thru the front cover
some time when you are turning up the wick and hit 7,000 RPM. I have
seen two cars come in after that came about. Very ugly !!!

"If it spins with very little effort, it is shot !"

Bruce Bing '03 LS

Your "Mazda Dealer" is as full of **** as a Christmas Goose !!!

The "Idler pully" is just that ! "AN IDLER" It is a bearing and the out
side surface rotates ! It does not just sit there an let the belt slide
past it !

Tell your "Dealer", to stick to selling cars and not fixing them, cause
he does not understand how things work on cars !

Bruce Bing '03 LS

On Jan 23, 8:24 pm, (BRUCE HASKIN) wrote:
> Your "Mazda Dealer" is as full of **** as a Christmas Goose !!!
>
> The "Idler pully" is just that ! "AN IDLER" It is a bearing and the out
> side surface rotates ! It does not just sit there an let the belt slide
> past it !
>
> Tell your "Dealer", to stick to selling cars and not fixing them, cause
> he does not understand how things work on cars !
>
> Bruce Bing '03 LS

OK - good clarification. It does move with difficulty, and as I asked
originally - it does not turn easily by hand, but I assume the timing
belt does move it as required. My question still remains - if it is
turning - is it not turning metal against metal (back of the pulley
against the water pump)? So I am assuming then I am good to go for now.

On 23 Jan 2007 16:37:57 -0800, wrote:

>
>
>On Jan 23, 3:11 pm, Natman > wrote:
>> On 22 Jan 2007 21:46:31 -0800, wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >But, if the pulley is spinning - then it is spinning metal on metal,
>> >vs. the tension pulley which spins freely and does not touch the metal
>> >behind it. As for the idler pulley, I don't know how it could have
>> >ever spun freely - the bolt head presses against the pulley - what
>> >would sieze? Are we sure it should spin freely?The idler pulley has a center mounting piece about 1.25 inches in
>> diameter. Outside of the center is the inner race of the bearing that
>> remains stationary. The brown seal and the outer race of the bearing
>> turn with the pulley.
>>
>> Yes the pulley HAS TO TURN. No question about it.
>>
>> The bolt should touch the center mount AND NOTHING ELSE. Judging by
>> the mark on my old pulley the washer under the bolt was about 5/8" in
>> diameter. If yours is so large that it touches anything else, you are
>> using the wrong bolt / washer. Or possible you are trying to install
>> the pulley upside down. The pulley shoud be installed with the
>> projection in the center TOWARD the engine block.
>
>I am installing it correctly - and to be on the safe side - I called
>Mazda. They informed me that the idler pulley does NOT turn. The
>tension pulley does turn.

If you want to believe that the idler pulley stands still and that the
belt slides over it at 7,000 RPM, you go right ahead. It's not true,
of course, but you seem to be far more interested arguing than getting
your car to work.

I give up.

On Jan 23, 9:25 pm, Natman > wrote:
> On 23 Jan 2007 16:37:57 -0800, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Jan 23, 3:11 pm, Natman > wrote:
> >> On 22 Jan 2007 21:46:31 -0800, wrote:
>
> >> >But, if the pulley is spinning - then it is spinning metal on metal,
> >> >vs. the tension pulley which spins freely and does not touch the metal
> >> >behind it. As for the idler pulley, I don't know how it could have
> >> >ever spun freely - the bolt head presses against the pulley - what
> >> >would sieze? Are we sure it should spin freely?The idler pulley has a center mounting piece about 1.25 inches in
> >> diameter. Outside of the center is the inner race of the bearing that
> >> remains stationary. The brown seal and the outer race of the bearing
> >> turn with the pulley.
>
> >> Yes the pulley HAS TO TURN. No question about it.
>
> >> The bolt should touch the center mount AND NOTHING ELSE. Judging by
> >> the mark on my old pulley the washer under the bolt was about 5/8" in
> >> diameter. If yours is so large that it touches anything else, you are
> >> using the wrong bolt / washer. Or possible you are trying to install
> >> the pulley upside down. The pulley shoud be installed with the
> >> projection in the center TOWARD the engine block.
>
> >I am installing it correctly - and to be on the safe side - I called
> >Mazda. They informed me that the idler pulley does NOT turn. The
> >tension pulley does turn.If you want to believe that the idler pulley stands still and that the
> belt slides over it at 7,000 RPM, you go right ahead. It's not true,
> of course, but you seem to be far more interested arguing than getting
> your car to work.
>
> I give up.- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

I am not arguing - but I am getting several different answers.
1. It does spin freely
2. It does not spin freely
3. It should not spin
4. and on and on!!

(BRUCE HASKIN) wrote:

>Your "Mazda Dealer" is as full of **** as a Christmas Goose !!!
>
>The "Idler pully" is just that ! "AN IDLER" It is a bearing and the out
>side surface rotates ! It does not just sit there an let the belt slide
>past it !
>
>Tell your "Dealer", to stick to selling cars and not fixing them, cause
>he does not understand how things work on cars !

He does however understand how things work on people who should be
bringing their cars into his service department instead of being
provided consulting for free.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas

(BRUCE HASKIN) wrote:

>It should NEVER spin freely ! If it spins when you hold the center and
>move the outer part, throw it in the trash! You should be able to turn
>it and have some drag. If you can spin it like a bike wheel, the next
>thing you can expect is the idler will come out thru the front cover
>some time when you are turning up the wick and hit 7,000 RPM. I have
>seen two cars come in after that came about. Very ugly !!!
>
>"If it spins with very little effort, it is shot !"

But if it "does move *with difficulty*", as the OP stated in another post,
then the bearings are shot also.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bess, the Miata Bozo, the Miata
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
The only thing better than a white Miata is two white Miatas

On 24 Jan 2007 09:39:03 -0800, wrote:


>
>I am not arguing - but I am getting several different answers.
>1. It does spin freely
>2. It does not spin freely
>3. It should not spin
>4. and on and on!!

OK fair enough. This is a difference in semantics about what "spin
freely" means. Let me try to resolve it.

1) The pulley HAS to be free to turn when it is installed. That's why
Mazda put a bearing in it! If you start the car with the idler unable
to turn your belt will quickly destroy itself in a cloud of blue
smoke.

There is no room for intellegent discussion of this point, any more
than whether or not your engine really needs oil or "It's only flat on
the bottom", do tires really need air?

THE PULLEY *MUST* BE ABLE TO TURN!

2) The pulley should turn smoothly with no trace of roughness.

3) You should be able to feel the resistance of the grease that is
packed inside. If it spins freely for several revolutions like a
roller skate wheel, then the grease is gone and it needs to be
replaced.

Best bet: just buy two new pulleys.