And so it begins..........

"Steve Smith" wrote:

> Ya gotta realize that, despite the apparent diversity (number of titles),
> the sim-racing world is basically down to two camps/groups/poles.
>
> On the one hand, you've got yer EA/Tiburon/ISI/SimBin faction. On the
> other: Papy/FIRST/Redline/Wildfire/et alia. The latter is tightly
> controlled by a secretive cabal in Boston, and can only be/get as good as
> Darth Vader (DK, now that he's gone over to the Dark Side) wants it to be.
> These guys have a clear lead in multiplayer expertise and useability.
> They're behind in terms of the physics model...at least for now.
<snip>

Phew, thanks for clearing that one up, Steve! Problem is I am feeling a bit
of a pschitzo at the moment, long term Papy fan whose finally got the latest
GTR demo running nicely. What to do? I'm torn, torn I tell ya...

"Tony Rickard" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve Smith" wrote:
>
> > Ya gotta realize that, despite the apparent diversity (number of
titles),
> > the sim-racing world is basically down to two camps/groups/poles.
> >
> > On the one hand, you've got yer EA/Tiburon/ISI/SimBin faction. On the
> > other: Papy/FIRST/Redline/Wildfire/et alia. The latter is tightly
> > controlled by a secretive cabal in Boston, and can only be/get as good
as
> > Darth Vader (DK, now that he's gone over to the Dark Side) wants it to
be.
> > These guys have a clear lead in multiplayer expertise and useability.
> > They're behind in terms of the physics model...at least for now.
> <snip>
>
> Phew, thanks for clearing that one up, Steve! Problem is I am feeling a
bit
> of a pschitzo at the moment, long term Papy fan whose finally got the
latest
> GTR demo running nicely. What to do? I'm torn, torn I tell ya...

Take my cure. Spend some quality time pounding through the woods in RBR and
you forget about all the current shouting matches. '05 is shaping up to be
the best year in a while for racing sim fans, but you'd never know it from
the current tone of things. Patience, grasshoppers... ;-)

SB

Me too.

"Tony Rickard" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve Smith" wrote:
>
> > Ya gotta realize that, despite the apparent diversity (number of
titles),
> > the sim-racing world is basically down to two camps/groups/poles.
> >
> > On the one hand, you've got yer EA/Tiburon/ISI/SimBin faction. On the
> > other: Papy/FIRST/Redline/Wildfire/et alia. The latter is tightly
> > controlled by a secretive cabal in Boston, and can only be/get as good
as
> > Darth Vader (DK, now that he's gone over to the Dark Side) wants it to
be.
> > These guys have a clear lead in multiplayer expertise and useability.
> > They're behind in terms of the physics model...at least for now.
> <snip>
>
> Phew, thanks for clearing that one up, Steve! Problem is I am feeling a
bit
> of a pschitzo at the moment, long term Papy fan whose finally got the
latest
> GTR demo running nicely. What to do? I'm torn, torn I tell ya...
>
>
>

Michael Horton wrote:

> Randy, this isn't EA's first run at a NASCAR sim or even their
> second. They've been at this since Revulsion back in 98 or 99.

THIS you are right about. But there has been a distinct change in
philosophy. Previously those games were going hand in hand with the
more arcade like console titles, right down to the name "Thunder". It
was the whole "make one game for all platforms" philosophy.

THAT has changed. A serious re-examination of the PC Sim market
happened there, and changes were made from personnel (bringing in
ex-Papyrus guys for example), the name of the product, the focus on
hardcore sim development, the extra months spent developing it, etc.
At the risk of using the old cliche, the people at EA who were in
charge of the PC version "found religion". A few of them already had
it, but now they actually have the power to make design decisions.

> They've released a number of Blunder versions that NSR is based on.

There is definitely still code in there from previous versions. But
that doesn't discredit the entire sim. Does the shell user API used in
previous releases make the game a sim or not a sim? No. There is an
internal framework upon which the engine of the game is built, but if
you keep the framework, but re-write the guts of the physics, it's
still a different physics engine. You throw out what's bad and keep
what's good. You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here.

Randy

>> EA has more clout than anybody in the gaming universe, but lacks
focus and committment (to anything but making money and amassing even
more power).

It is indeed EA Corporate that I worry about, not the development team
at Tiburon working on NSR. As long as EA lets them and the community
is buying their product, NSR should get better and better. If EA
Corporate makes any kind of mandate from on-high to change course with
PC versions of NASCAR back to a more NASCAR Thunder console variety,
we're screwed.

Right now, it looks like the guys at Tiburon are being allowed to call
the shots, and being of the hardcore sim persuasion, that's what they
are busting their butts trying to give us. I *am* guilty of hoping
they are successful, and one of the main reasons is that I would like
to see hardcore sims get more respect and be more successful from big
publishers, rather than have the genre be confined to small independent
niches who could close their doors and go out of business at any point.

Of course, I'm also rooting big time for the simbin folks (wish they'd
ship GTR here already so I don't have to pay to import it). I just
think it would be awesome if a company with EAs licensing, clout and
resources were making a hardcore NASCAR sim SUCCESSFUL.

Randy

Tony Rickard wrote:
>
> "Steve Smith" wrote:
>
> > Ya gotta realize that, despite the apparent diversity (number of titles),
> > the sim-racing world is basically down to two camps/groups/poles.
> >
> > On the one hand, you've got yer EA/Tiburon/ISI/SimBin faction. On the
> > other: Papy/FIRST/Redline/Wildfire/et alia. The latter is tightly
> > controlled by a secretive cabal in Boston, and can only be/get as good as
> > Darth Vader (DK, now that he's gone over to the Dark Side) wants it to be.
> > These guys have a clear lead in multiplayer expertise and useability.
> > They're behind in terms of the physics model...at least for now.
> <snip>
>
> Phew, thanks for clearing that one up, Steve! Problem is I am feeling a bit
> of a pschitzo at the moment, long term Papy fan whose finally got the latest
> GTR demo running nicely. What to do? I'm torn, torn I tell ya...

So what you're saying is that you're a splitter ?

Wait for rFactor to be released and have it all


Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" wrote:

> So what you're saying is that you're a splitter ?

No the splitters gone. The guy in the pits told me so.


Tony

(snip)
> Wait for rFactor to be released and have it all

Does rFactor have more "feel" to it? I have a good feel for the cars in Papy
games but I can't tell what the cars are doing in the Isi based mods. I was
looking forward to the V8 supercar mod for N2K3 but thanks to First that
won't be happening. I can't make a lap without spinning in the mod for F1C
unless I turn a lot of aides on.

Don

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 14:21:52 GMT, Tony Rickard wrote:
> Phew, thanks for clearing that one up, Steve! Problem is I am feeling a bit
> of a pschitzo at the moment, long term Papy fan whose finally got the latest
> GTR demo running nicely. What to do? I'm torn, torn I tell ya...

I am in the same situation, I bought GTR when it came out last
November here in Germany. Let me give you a hint: Enjoy them both!

- Fire up GTP mod for a nice online session when GTR MP bites you
again

- Fire up GTR if you're in dire need of a little adrenaline rush

- Fire up GPL for the good times sake and to put that certain smile on
your face, blasting that Brabham around St. Jovite.

HTH

Cheers,

uwe



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On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 09:45:53 -0500, Steve Blankenship wrote:
> Take my cure. Spend some quality time pounding through the woods in RBR and
> you forget about all the current shouting matches. '05 is shaping up to be
> the best year in a while for racing sim fans, but you'd never know it from
> the current tone of things. Patience, grasshoppers... ;-)

Exactly, Steve. Remember the doom and gloom we had on this group in
2003 and early 2004? Now, it looks really nice and once FIRST have
found their new identity within the simracing world and stop sueing
every one and his mother, the future certainly looks brighter than
ever before.

Lots of good sims here already, with more on the horizon like LFS S2,
GTR 2004, rFactor (that's going to be a cracker!), you name it. Who
knows, even Racing Legends might see the light of day if we're not
careful!

Back to the doom and gloom now, plase ;-)

uwe


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