No Power Adders > '05 GT Mustang Goes 12.3s @ 112

Joe wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in news:1102375719.304812.224220
> @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>I kinda doubt this, myself. At full weight, as nice as the new
>
> Mustang
>
>>GT is, even with 300 rwhp, stock it might win to 60 feet because of
>>it's rear end, but then it's looking at Cobra tail lights the rest
>
> of
>
>>the way. I think it's a combination of otehr things. They got mauled
>>more than once by the perception that they were overrating the
>
> Mustang
>
>>and it's variants. Added to that, for a long time, the LS1 was
>
> clearly
>
>>underrated in every trim it came in. I smell Ford trying to build
>
> some
>
>>value into the car for a change, up front. Then there's the fact
>
> that
>
>>Mustang sells without the power. LS1 was clearly a better bang for
>
> the
>
>>buck (motor-wise) for the budget oriented racer for a long time but
>>that didn't sell more cars. I can see Ford just not worrying too
>
> much
>
>>about hitting high power numbers: one because it's the only pony car
>>out there, and two, because history shows that the car will still
>
> sell
>
>>well anyway.
>>
>>Finally, I honestly don't think they are worrying about "sold"/"old"
>>Mustangs right now. The Terminator era is over, really. Anyone
>
> buying a
>
>>Terminator right now is doing so because they already wanted one,
>
> for
>
>>whatever reason. Why would they care if their new baby spanked it.
>
> In
>
>>fact, I'll argue, they'd want the Mustang GT to be spanking because
>>that sets up the sales for the oncoming S197 SVT Cobra which will be
>>based on this same technology and have even more power .
>>Dan
>>2003 Cobra convertible
>>With some stuff and things
>
>
> At this point we're all bench racing. Let's see what a chipped '05
> will do against a Terminator on a track. I'm sure somebody'll have
> that comparo sooner or later.
>
> As for future Cobras, Mustangs, Lightnings, and whathaveyou, I'd wait
> until I see product. Anything else is just blowing smoke.

Wait until you see the numbers from a Kenne Bell blown 2005 Mustang. My
prediction is 450-500 rwhp/rwtq with 8-9 psi of intercooled boost. With
VVT the low torque and high end hp shows be spectacular.

Joe wrote:
> "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in
> :
>
>
>>Joe wrote:
>>
>>>"Dan" > wrote in news:1102375719.304812.224220
:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I kinda doubt this, myself. At full weight, as nice as the new
>>>
>>>Mustang
>>>
>>>
>>>>GT is, even with 300 rwhp, stock it might win to 60 feet because of
>>>>it's rear end, but then it's looking at Cobra tail lights the rest
>>>
>>>of
>>>
>>>
>>>>the way. I think it's a combination of otehr things. They got
>>>>mauled more than once by the perception that they were overrating
>>>>the
>>>
>>>Mustang
>>>
>>>
>>>>and it's variants. Added to that, for a long time, the LS1 was
>>>
>>>clearly
>>>
>>>
>>>>underrated in every trim it came in. I smell Ford trying to build
>>>
>>>some
>>>
>>>
>>>>value into the car for a change, up front. Then there's the fact
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mustang sells without the power. LS1 was clearly a better bang for
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>buck (motor-wise) for the budget oriented racer for a long time but
>>>>that didn't sell more cars. I can see Ford just not worrying too
>>>
>>>much
>>>
>>>
>>>>about hitting high power numbers: one because it's the only pony
>>>>car out there, and two, because history shows that the car will
>>>>still
>>>
>>>sell
>>>
>>>
>>>>well anyway.
>>>>
>>>>Finally, I honestly don't think they are worrying about
>>>>"sold"/"old" Mustangs right now. The Terminator era is over,
>>>>really. Anyone
>>>
>>>buying a
>>>
>>>
>>>>Terminator right now is doing so because they already wanted one,
>>>
>>>for
>>>
>>>
>>>>whatever reason. Why would they care if their new baby spanked it.
>>>
>>>In
>>>
>>>
>>>>fact, I'll argue, they'd want the Mustang GT to be spanking because
>>>>that sets up the sales for the oncoming S197 SVT Cobra which will
>>>>be based on this same technology and have even more power .
>>>>Dan
>>>>2003 Cobra convertible
>>>>With some stuff and things
>>>
>>>
>>>At this point we're all bench racing. Let's see what a chipped '05
>>>will do against a Terminator on a track. I'm sure somebody'll have
>>>that comparo sooner or later.
>>>
>>>As for future Cobras, Mustangs, Lightnings, and whathaveyou, I'd
>>>wait until I see product. Anything else is just blowing smoke.
>>
>>Wait until you see the numbers from a Kenne Bell blown 2005 Mustang.
>> My prediction is 450-500 rwhp/rwtq with 8-9 psi of intercooled
>>boost. With VVT the low torque and high end hp shows be
>>spectacular.
>
>
> I'm certainly looking forward to that! Michael, do you know when KB
> will have a production unit ready? Or do they already? Haven't
> looked.

I quizzed them on it nearly a year ago and they said they would
definitely have an '05 kit. KB takes their time though because they
make sure the kit is complete and well thought out. If they got 400
rwhp from the 2-valve engines the 3-valves should be very impressive.

> It seems as though the '05 platform is the best Ford's offered to
> date. Could some of the pre-'05 owners be pouting already? Nah...
>

Having seen the '05 Mustang GT's performance I'm curious to see what
they do with the upcoming Cobra.

Whipple has already "published" their numbers for the 5.4, 24 valve
motor and they have the kit on the 4.6 right now. Not for sale, that I
know of.

Vortech, Paxton, and ATI all showed off centri kits at SEMA and Saleen
has their own roots kit. However, I know they all (Whipple included)
have had issues with tuning the three processors on the new setup. I
think most of this involves long term drivability because I know the
S197 SVT Cobra test mule with the 5.4, 24 valve, supercharged has been
rolling on the road for over a year now.
Dan
2003 Cobra convertible
With some stuff and things

WraithCobra wrote:
> I wouldn't call that "out performing" a stock Terminator. An
experienced
> drag racer can get a 12.3 at 112 out of a stock supercharged Cobra.
Also
> remember that a CAI and Cat-back, less than $500, will net over 40
horses to
> the rear wheels. That's over 400 horses to the pavement. A simple
Predator
> or Hypertec tune with that will up that another 25 to 30. After that
it's
> just a pulley and tune to 550 or more. Modified Eaton Cobra's are in
the 11
> sec club, swap to a KB or Whipple and watch out. The new Mustang GT
is a
> great car, but it does not compare to the Terminator. Even on a road
course
> the Cobra out performs the new Mustang. And the next Cobra's gonna'
be a
> killer!

Mike,

I agree this modded '05 GT is on par with a stock Terminator. And
yeah, we already know the Terminator can pump out some really sick
numbers when you throw a few tweaks at it. But isn't it amazing that
this lightly modded GT isn't even S/C'd and it's running the same
numbers as the blown Cobra.

Patrick
'93 Cobra
'83 LTD



> "Patrick" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > > Over at The Corral I've read the same thing about the '05
computers.
> > > Evidently they are a major hp bottle neck in the '05 Mustangs.
I've
> > > read where just a recalibrate chip nets close to 300 rwhp. Now
that is
> > > a great bang-for-the-buck modification. I've also read that
cat-back
> > > exhaust modifications aren't that effective. The stock cat-back
exhaust
> > > is pretty good.
> >
> > It is. It's all mandrel bent 2 1/2".
> >
> > So besides the pullies & lightweight wheels, it's just almost all
> > about the super tune. Amazing that a regular '05 GT Mustang, with
> > just a couple simple mods, is outperforming a stock '03-'04
terminator
> > [Cobra] Mustang.
> >
> > Patrick
> > '93 Cobra
> > '83 LTD
> >
> >
> > > Also, the new rear end configuration really shines at
> > > the drag strip by improving off-the-line performance. That is an
> > > excellent time though. Much better than I would have expected,
even
> > > with 300 rwhp.
> > >
> > > Patrick wrote:
> > > > Yeah, you read it right, a 12.31 @ 112.76 mph.
> > > >
> > > > Paul Svinicki (Paul's High Performance in Jackson, Michigan
based
> > > > lined a bone-stock 5-speed '05 GT Mustang and ran 13.90 @ 101
mph.
> > > >
> > > > Stock rear-wheel horsepower was 274.8 with 300 lb-ft of torque.
> > > >
> > > > Then they added:
> > > >
> > > > -Replacement rear control arms
> > > > -Lightweight Wilwood disc brakes
> > > > -Weld Pro Star racing wheels
> > > > -Tokico coilover shocks/struts
> > > > -Bassani exhaust system with high-flow cats (prototype system)
> > > > -4.30 rear gears
> > > > -Cold-air intake system
> > > > -U/D pullies
> > > > -Custom tune by Superchips
> > > > -Fabbed a rear seat delete kit
> > > >
> > > > -In all, 380 pounds were lost.
> > > >
> > > > After the mods, rear-wheel horsepower jumped 25 ponies to 299.5
and
> > > > 318.9 lb-ft of torque.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know about you, but I'm VERY impressed! Looking at the
list
> > > > there isn't anything exotic, except for the brakes. The rest
of the
> > > > stuff is regular bolt-on stuff you'd add to any Mustang anyway.
> > > >
> > > > The really interesting part is the supertune. Appearently,
Ford has
> > > > the computer in the new GT Mustangs calibrated very "soft."
Seems the
> > > > computer throttles back the power if it senses heavy wheel
spin. But
> > > > with a custom chip added, it's giddy up GONE...bye bye...
> > > >
> > > > Check out the article. It's in the new January edition of Hot
Rod
> > > > magazine.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick
> > > > '93 Cobra
> > > > '83 LTD

WraithCobra wrote:
> I wouldn't call that "out performing" a stock Terminator. An
experienced
> drag racer can get a 12.3 at 112 out of a stock supercharged Cobra.
Also
> remember that a CAI and Cat-back, less than $500, will net over 40
horses to
> the rear wheels. That's over 400 horses to the pavement. A simple
Predator
> or Hypertec tune with that will up that another 25 to 30. After that
it's
> just a pulley and tune to 550 or more. Modified Eaton Cobra's are in
the 11
> sec club, swap to a KB or Whipple and watch out. The new Mustang GT
is a
> great car, but it does not compare to the Terminator. Even on a road
course
> the Cobra out performs the new Mustang. And the next Cobra's gonna'
be a
> killer!

Mike,

I agree this modded '05 GT is on par with a stock Terminator. And
yeah, we already know the Terminator can pump out some really sick
numbers when you throw a few tweaks at it. But isn't it amazing that
this lightly modded GT isn't even S/C'd and it's running the same
numbers as the blown Cobra.

Patrick
'93 Cobra
'83 LTD



> "Patrick" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > > Over at The Corral I've read the same thing about the '05
computers.
> > > Evidently they are a major hp bottle neck in the '05 Mustangs.
I've
> > > read where just a recalibrate chip nets close to 300 rwhp. Now
that is
> > > a great bang-for-the-buck modification. I've also read that
cat-back
> > > exhaust modifications aren't that effective. The stock cat-back
exhaust
> > > is pretty good.
> >
> > It is. It's all mandrel bent 2 1/2".
> >
> > So besides the pullies & lightweight wheels, it's just almost all
> > about the super tune. Amazing that a regular '05 GT Mustang, with
> > just a couple simple mods, is outperforming a stock '03-'04
terminator
> > [Cobra] Mustang.
> >
> > Patrick
> > '93 Cobra
> > '83 LTD
> >
> >
> > > Also, the new rear end configuration really shines at
> > > the drag strip by improving off-the-line performance. That is an
> > > excellent time though. Much better than I would have expected,
even
> > > with 300 rwhp.
> > >
> > > Patrick wrote:
> > > > Yeah, you read it right, a 12.31 @ 112.76 mph.
> > > >
> > > > Paul Svinicki (Paul's High Performance in Jackson, Michigan
based
> > > > lined a bone-stock 5-speed '05 GT Mustang and ran 13.90 @ 101
mph.
> > > >
> > > > Stock rear-wheel horsepower was 274.8 with 300 lb-ft of torque.
> > > >
> > > > Then they added:
> > > >
> > > > -Replacement rear control arms
> > > > -Lightweight Wilwood disc brakes
> > > > -Weld Pro Star racing wheels
> > > > -Tokico coilover shocks/struts
> > > > -Bassani exhaust system with high-flow cats (prototype system)
> > > > -4.30 rear gears
> > > > -Cold-air intake system
> > > > -U/D pullies
> > > > -Custom tune by Superchips
> > > > -Fabbed a rear seat delete kit
> > > >
> > > > -In all, 380 pounds were lost.
> > > >
> > > > After the mods, rear-wheel horsepower jumped 25 ponies to 299.5
and
> > > > 318.9 lb-ft of torque.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know about you, but I'm VERY impressed! Looking at the
list
> > > > there isn't anything exotic, except for the brakes. The rest
of the
> > > > stuff is regular bolt-on stuff you'd add to any Mustang anyway.
> > > >
> > > > The really interesting part is the supertune. Appearently,
Ford has
> > > > the computer in the new GT Mustangs calibrated very "soft."
Seems the
> > > > computer throttles back the power if it senses heavy wheel
spin. But
> > > > with a custom chip added, it's giddy up GONE...bye bye...
> > > >
> > > > Check out the article. It's in the new January edition of Hot
Rod
> > > > magazine.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick
> > > > '93 Cobra
> > > > '83 LTD

Michael Johnson, PE wrote:
> Joe wrote:
> > "Dan" > wrote in news:1102375719.304812.224220
> > @z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> >
> >
> >>I kinda doubt this, myself. At full weight, as nice as the new
> >
> > Mustang
> >
> >>GT is, even with 300 rwhp, stock it might win to 60 feet because of
> >>it's rear end, but then it's looking at Cobra tail lights the rest
> >
> > of
> >
> >>the way. I think it's a combination of otehr things. They got
mauled
> >>more than once by the perception that they were overrating the
> >
> > Mustang
> >
> >>and it's variants. Added to that, for a long time, the LS1 was
> >
> > clearly
> >
> >>underrated in every trim it came in. I smell Ford trying to build
> >
> > some
> >
> >>value into the car for a change, up front. Then there's the fact
> >
> > that
> >
> >>Mustang sells without the power. LS1 was clearly a better bang for
> >
> > the
> >
> >>buck (motor-wise) for the budget oriented racer for a long time but
> >>that didn't sell more cars. I can see Ford just not worrying too
> >
> > much
> >
> >>about hitting high power numbers: one because it's the only pony
car
> >>out there, and two, because history shows that the car will still
> >
> > sell
> >
> >>well anyway.
> >>
> >>Finally, I honestly don't think they are worrying about
"sold"/"old"
> >>Mustangs right now. The Terminator era is over, really. Anyone
> >
> > buying a
> >
> >>Terminator right now is doing so because they already wanted one,
> >
> > for
> >
> >>whatever reason. Why would they care if their new baby spanked it.
> >
> > In
> >
> >>fact, I'll argue, they'd want the Mustang GT to be spanking because
> >>that sets up the sales for the oncoming S197 SVT Cobra which will
be
> >>based on this same technology and have even more power .
> >>Dan
> >>2003 Cobra convertible
> >>With some stuff and things
> >
> >
> > At this point we're all bench racing. Let's see what a chipped '05

> > will do against a Terminator on a track. I'm sure somebody'll have

> > that comparo sooner or later.
> >
> > As for future Cobras, Mustangs, Lightnings, and whathaveyou, I'd
wait
> > until I see product. Anything else is just blowing smoke.
>
> Wait until you see the numbers from a Kenne Bell blown 2005 Mustang.
My
> prediction is 450-500 rwhp/rwtq with 8-9 psi of intercooled boost.
With
> VVT the low torque and high end hp shows be spectacular.

Whipple has already "published" their numbers for the 5.4, 24 valve
motor and they have the kit on the 4.6 right now. Not for sale, that I
know of.

Vortech, Paxton, and ATI all showed off centri kits at SEMA and Saleen
has their own roots kit. However, I know they all (Whipple included)
have had issues with tuning the three processors on the new setup.
However, Ford has had the 5.4, 24 valve, supercharged in the S197 SVT
Cobra test mule for over a year now so the tuning issues, I believe,
revolve around long term drivability and the other non-power related,
but important stuff .
Dan
2003 Covra convertible
With some stuff and things

WraithCobra wrote:
> I wouldn't call that "out performing" a stock Terminator. An
experienced
> drag racer can get a 12.3 at 112 out of a stock supercharged Cobra.
Also
> remember that a CAI and Cat-back, less than $500, will net over 40
horses to
> the rear wheels. That's over 400 horses to the pavement. A simple
Predator
> or Hypertec tune with that will up that another 25 to 30. After that
it's
> just a pulley and tune to 550 or more. Modified Eaton Cobra's are in
the 11
> sec club, swap to a KB or Whipple and watch out. The new Mustang GT
is a
> great car, but it does not compare to the Terminator. Even on a road
course
> the Cobra out performs the new Mustang. And the next Cobra's gonna'
be a
> killer!

Mike,

I agree this modded '05 GT is on par with a stock Terminator. And
yeah, we already know the Terminator can pump out some really sick
numbers when you throw a few tweaks at it. But isn't it amazing that
this lightly modded GT isn't even S/C'd and it's running the same
numbers as the blown Cobra.

Patrick
'93 Cobra
'83 LTD



> "Patrick" > wrote in message
> om...
> > "Michael Johnson, PE" > wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > > Over at The Corral I've read the same thing about the '05
computers.
> > > Evidently they are a major hp bottle neck in the '05 Mustangs.
I've
> > > read where just a recalibrate chip nets close to 300 rwhp. Now
that is
> > > a great bang-for-the-buck modification. I've also read that
cat-back
> > > exhaust modifications aren't that effective. The stock cat-back
exhaust
> > > is pretty good.
> >
> > It is. It's all mandrel bent 2 1/2".
> >
> > So besides the pullies & lightweight wheels, it's just almost all
> > about the super tune. Amazing that a regular '05 GT Mustang, with
> > just a couple simple mods, is outperforming a stock '03-'04
terminator
> > [Cobra] Mustang.
> >
> > Patrick
> > '93 Cobra
> > '83 LTD
> >
> >
> > > Also, the new rear end configuration really shines at
> > > the drag strip by improving off-the-line performance. That is an
> > > excellent time though. Much better than I would have expected,
even
> > > with 300 rwhp.
> > >
> > > Patrick wrote:
> > > > Yeah, you read it right, a 12.31 @ 112.76 mph.
> > > >
> > > > Paul Svinicki (Paul's High Performance in Jackson, Michigan
based
> > > > lined a bone-stock 5-speed '05 GT Mustang and ran 13.90 @ 101
mph.
> > > >
> > > > Stock rear-wheel horsepower was 274.8 with 300 lb-ft of torque.
> > > >
> > > > Then they added:
> > > >
> > > > -Replacement rear control arms
> > > > -Lightweight Wilwood disc brakes
> > > > -Weld Pro Star racing wheels
> > > > -Tokico coilover shocks/struts
> > > > -Bassani exhaust system with high-flow cats (prototype system)
> > > > -4.30 rear gears
> > > > -Cold-air intake system
> > > > -U/D pullies
> > > > -Custom tune by Superchips
> > > > -Fabbed a rear seat delete kit
> > > >
> > > > -In all, 380 pounds were lost.
> > > >
> > > > After the mods, rear-wheel horsepower jumped 25 ponies to 299.5
and
> > > > 318.9 lb-ft of torque.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know about you, but I'm VERY impressed! Looking at the
list
> > > > there isn't anything exotic, except for the brakes. The rest
of the
> > > > stuff is regular bolt-on stuff you'd add to any Mustang anyway.
> > > >
> > > > The really interesting part is the supertune. Appearently,
Ford has
> > > > the computer in the new GT Mustangs calibrated very "soft."
Seems the
> > > > computer throttles back the power if it senses heavy wheel
spin. But
> > > > with a custom chip added, it's giddy up GONE...bye bye...
> > > >
> > > > Check out the article. It's in the new January edition of Hot
Rod
> > > > magazine.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick
> > > > '93 Cobra
> > > > '83 LTD

wrote:
> I agree this modded '05 GT is on par with a stock Terminator. And
> yeah, we already know the Terminator can pump out some really sick
> numbers when you throw a few tweaks at it. But isn't it amazing that
> this lightly modded GT isn't even S/C'd and it's running the same
> numbers as the blown Cobra.

I don't think it's that amazing, gaining 35 RWHP from exhaust and tuning is
nice but not spectacular since the same can be done to the Cobra for 60+
RWHP. Also the Cobra weighs 3660 and is hard to launch on the IRS, GT weighs
3480 and is easy to launch on live axel. The n/a Mach can make similar power
with mod's and run similar numbers so could the n/a Cobras except they too
had the IRS to deal with. The Terminator still has 100 more lb.ft. of torque
than the modded GT, on the street from a roll where the launch doesn't
matter the stock Cobra will still walk the modded GT.
The New Mustang platform is great and the new 3V motor makes some nice
numbers, but mod for mod the Terminator is still King. (until the next Cobra
hit's the streets)
--
Mike
Silver 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe
---

The best thrill is turning 4k in first , flooring it and having the rear end
break loose.
"WraithCobra" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> I agree this modded '05 GT is on par with a stock Terminator. And
>> yeah, we already know the Terminator can pump out some really sick
>> numbers when you throw a few tweaks at it. But isn't it amazing that
>> this lightly modded GT isn't even S/C'd and it's running the same
>> numbers as the blown Cobra.
>
> I don't think it's that amazing, gaining 35 RWHP from exhaust and tuning
> is
> nice but not spectacular since the same can be done to the Cobra for 60+
> RWHP. Also the Cobra weighs 3660 and is hard to launch on the IRS, GT
> weighs
> 3480 and is easy to launch on live axel. The n/a Mach can make similar
> power
> with mod's and run similar numbers so could the n/a Cobras except they too
> had the IRS to deal with. The Terminator still has 100 more lb.ft. of
> torque
> than the modded GT, on the street from a roll where the launch doesn't
> matter the stock Cobra will still walk the modded GT.
> The New Mustang platform is great and the new 3V motor makes some nice
> numbers, but mod for mod the Terminator is still King. (until the next
> Cobra
> hit's the streets)
> --
> Mike
> Silver 10th Anniversary Cobra Coupe
> ---
>
>
>