GM, Ford reputations take a hit

In article >,
"Jim Higgins" > wrote:

> Ford and GM have lamented the fact that many car buyers simply don't
> consider them anymore. GM has conducted focus groups that show its vehicles
> get much higher marks when their Chevy or Pontiac nameplate is replaced by a
> Toyota badge.

Hopefully that tells them something.
It might even help if they surveyed their customers desires, but
building cars the customer wants may be too much for them after years of
telling the customers what they should buy.

This evening I saw the first intelligent auto ad in years.
It was locally (Vancouver, BC) produced for the Chrysler Caliper.

On Feb 2, 4:17 am, Some O > wrote:
> In article >,
> "Jim Higgins" > wrote:
>
> > Ford and GM have lamented the fact that many car buyers simply don't
> > consider them anymore. GM has conducted focus groups that show its vehicles
> > get much higher marks when their Chevy or Pontiac nameplate is replaced by a
> > Toyota badge.
>
> Hopefully that tells them something.
> It might even help if they surveyed their customers desires, but
> building cars the customer wants may be too much for them after years of
> telling the customers what they should buy.
>
> This evening I saw the first intelligent auto ad in years.
> It was locally (Vancouver, BC) produced for the Chrysler Caliper.

get your vehicles right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a Dodge
Caliber.................... Different division of DC autos

"Some O" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Jim Higgins" > wrote:
>
> > Ford and GM have lamented the fact that many car buyers simply don't
> > consider them anymore. GM has conducted focus groups that show its
vehicles
> > get much higher marks when their Chevy or Pontiac nameplate is replaced
by a
> > Toyota badge.
>
> Hopefully that tells them something.
> It might even help if they surveyed their customers desires, but
> building cars the customer wants may be too much for them after years of
> telling the customers what they should buy.
>

If their vehicles are getting higher marks with Toyota on the nameplate
then what the market wants is the nameplate, you dumb idiot, not
the features of the vehicle.

I don't see how you can complete with that. GM ought to just turn their
back on that market and go find a different one. A perfectly obvious
market would be the car buyers that don't want to spend the $20K
or so that a new Toyota costs but still would like to buy a new car and
not have to be stuck with someone's off-lease, used Toyota.

If GM brought out a same-feature car as a Toyota in the $8K range,
there would be a market there for it. It wouldn't be the market of
people buying new Toyotas, it most likely would be the market of
people buying USED Toyotas.

Ted

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message

> If GM brought out a same-feature car as a Toyota in the $8K range,
> there would be a market there for it. It wouldn't be the market of
> people buying new Toyotas, it most likely would be the market of
> people buying USED Toyotas.

Sign me up as soon as they put out an $8000 car with all the features of the
Camry. I just don't see that happening.

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Some O" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Jim Higgins" > wrote:
> >
> > > Ford and GM have lamented the fact that many car buyers simply don't
> > > consider them anymore. GM has conducted focus groups that show its
> vehicles
> > > get much higher marks when their Chevy or Pontiac nameplate is
replaced
> by a
> > > Toyota badge.
> >
> > Hopefully that tells them something.
> > It might even help if they surveyed their customers desires, but
> > building cars the customer wants may be too much for them after years of
> > telling the customers what they should buy.
> >
>
> If their vehicles are getting higher marks with Toyota on the nameplate
> then what the market wants is the nameplate, you dumb idiot, not
> the features of the vehicle.
>
> I don't see how you can complete with that. GM ought to just turn their
> back on that market and go find a different one.

It isnt the nameplate, but you are not far off. It is the reputation that
is behind
that nameplate, merited or not.

GM and even Ford, if they can stay alive long enough and, if they will
devote themselves to producing a quality item and treating their clients
courteously and fairly, can regain or even improve their images.

If they can't adopt a code of progress and fairness, then maybe they should
enter banking, or the stock market, or fast foods.

"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
...
<...>

> If GM brought out a same-feature car as a Toyota in the $8K range,
> there would be a market there for it. It wouldn't be the market of
> people buying new Toyotas, it most likely would be the market of
> people buying USED Toyotas.

That's been a major problem for Ford. Ford has been unable to bring out a
profitable car in the $12k segment. So those buyers go to Toyota Yaris,
Honda Fit or a Hyundai. (I don't know what the cheapest Kia or Hyaundai
sells for, but hte cheapest Toyota and Honda I believe are over $10k.) Then,
in five years, when they start making more money and need a new car, the new
car is Toyota, Honda or Hyundai. And it more like a Rav 4 for a Tundra or
Camry, an Accord or Pilot or whatever new and better car comes for Korea.

However, if the first car was a Ford or GM, so might be the second and
subsequent cars.

Jeff

> Ted
>
>

> wrote in message
et...
>
> "Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Some O" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Jim Higgins" > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Ford and GM have lamented the fact that many car buyers simply don't
>> > > consider them anymore. GM has conducted focus groups that show its
>> vehicles
>> > > get much higher marks when their Chevy or Pontiac nameplate is
> replaced
>> by a
>> > > Toyota badge.
>> >
>> > Hopefully that tells them something.
>> > It might even help if they surveyed their customers desires, but
>> > building cars the customer wants may be too much for them after years
>> > of
>> > telling the customers what they should buy.
>> >
>>
>> If their vehicles are getting higher marks with Toyota on the nameplate
>> then what the market wants is the nameplate, you dumb idiot, not
>> the features of the vehicle.
>>
>> I don't see how you can complete with that. GM ought to just turn their
>> back on that market and go find a different one.
>
> It isnt the nameplate, but you are not far off. It is the reputation that
> is behind
> that nameplate, merited or not.

It's also the type of car. I bet there would a different response if GM put
a Toyota nameplate on one its trucks instead of a car.

> GM and even Ford, if they can stay alive long enough and, if they will
> devote themselves to producing a quality item and treating their clients
> courteously and fairly, can regain or even improve their images.

Well, a problem is that they have too many clients, the dealers. Instead of
most dealers selling over 1000 cars, like they do for foreign nameplates,
Ford and GM dealers sell maybe 500, on average. That means more dealers are
supported, which makes for more ligistical problems.

It would also help if, when there is a problem with thedesign of their cars,
they own up to it and fix the cars right without owners have to jump through
hoops. They might save $2000 on a repair, but they won't sell the owner
his/her next car.

> If they can't adopt a code of progress and fairness, then maybe they
> should
> enter banking, or the stock market, or fast foods.

Why? Without treating costumers right, they won't make it in any business.

Jeff

That dodge caliber is a hunk of ****e..


--
corning_d3
------------------------------------------------------------------------
corning_d3's Profile: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...?userid=373828
View this thread: http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=669857

http://www.automotiveforums.com

"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:tQoxh.883$da1.424@trndny03...
>
> > wrote in message
> et...
> > It isnt the nameplate, but you are not far off. It is the reputation
that
> > is behind
> > that nameplate, merited or not.
>
> It's also the type of car. I bet there would a different response if GM
put
> a Toyota nameplate on one its trucks instead of a car.

****I dont really follow the truck market. What do you think the effect
would be? A lot of people whom I know have Toyota small pickups and
love them.


> Well, a problem is that they have too many clients, the dealers. Instead
of
> most dealers selling over 1000 cars, like they do for foreign nameplates,
> Ford and GM dealers sell maybe 500, on average. That means more dealers
are
> supported, which makes for more ligistical problems.

*****Again, I dont know how much support the manufacturer actually gives the
dealerships. As far as I know, dealerships buy the cars on a "floor plan"
loan
concept to avoid tying up their own capital. The manufacturer does not pay
building rent, expensives, etc as far as I know. Maybe you can enlighten
me.



> It would also help if, when there is a problem with thedesign of their
cars,
> they own up to it and fix the cars right without owners have to jump
through
> hoops. They might save $2000 on a repair, but they won't sell the owner
> his/her next car.

*******SPOT ON!! This would work wonders. Jesus forgave the repentent
whore.
We could perhaps forgive GM.


> > If they can't adopt a code of progress and fairness, then maybe they
> > should
> > enter banking, or the stock market, or fast foods.
>
> Why? Without treating costumers right, they won't make it in any business.
****** Again, SPOT ON!!

> wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> news:tQoxh.883$da1.424@trndny03...
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> et...
>> > It isnt the nameplate, but you are not far off. It is the reputation
> that
>> > is behind
>> > that nameplate, merited or not.
>>
>> It's also the type of car. I bet there would a different response if GM
> put
>> a Toyota nameplate on one its trucks instead of a car.
>
> ****I dont really follow the truck market. What do you think the effect
> would be? A lot of people whom I know have Toyota small pickups and
> love them.

What I am thinking is that people expect certain types of cars from the big
3 and other types of cars from the Japanese makers. If GM or Ford makes a
car that is like the Japanese make, they are going to think it is a better
car if it has Japanese nameplate than American nameplate. But if it is a big
car like a Crown Vic, they are going to think more of it with a Ford or
Chevy nameplate than Toyota or Honda.

In other words, people are going to think more of a car that is consistant
with their idea of what that car maker makes.

So if it is huge pickup, with rear dual wheel (you know, where there are two
wheels at the back of the truck on each side), they would give higher
ratings to the truck if it is from Ford or GMC than if it is from Toyota or
Honda. That is because they associate big trucks with the big 3, but not
Toyota and Honda.

>> Well, a problem is that they have too many clients, the dealers. Instead
> of
>> most dealers selling over 1000 cars, like they do for foreign nameplates,
>> Ford and GM dealers sell maybe 500, on average. That means more dealers
> are
>> supported, which makes for more ligistical problems.
>
> *****Again, I dont know how much support the manufacturer actually gives
> the
> dealerships. As far as I know, dealerships buy the cars on a "floor plan"
> loan
> concept to avoid tying up their own capital. The manufacturer does not
> pay
> building rent, expensives, etc as far as I know. Maybe you can enlighten
> me.

There was a recent thread about this in this newsgroup. It was called auto
dealer glut hurts US makes.

Here is a link to the article in that thread:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...702030361/1148

>> It would also help if, when there is a problem with thedesign of their
> cars,
>> they own up to it and fix the cars right without owners have to jump
> through
>> hoops. They might save $2000 on a repair, but they won't sell the owner
>> his/her next car.
>
> *******SPOT ON!! This would work wonders. Jesus forgave the repentent
> whore.
> We could perhaps forgive GM.
>
>
>> > If they can't adopt a code of progress and fairness, then maybe they
>> > should
>> > enter banking, or the stock market, or fast foods.
>>
>> Why? Without treating costumers right, they won't make it in any
>> business.
> ****** Again, SPOT ON!!
>
>