Consumer Reports: "Disappointing ION"...

In article >,
says...
> "Philip Nasadowski" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Mark Gonzales" > wrote:
> >
> > > And I hear that Honda=3Fs 3.5L V6 is complete garbage (but itz got V-TECH,
> > > yo!) and the auto transmission is a piece of crap (my brother=3Fs =3F02
> Odyssey
> > > tranny has been recalled)
> >
> > Their 6's aren't horrid, but IMHO, none of the Japanese makers have
> > gotten V motors down as well as Detroit. 4's? Yeah, they're a bit
> > better. IMHO, for a 4, it's Japan, inline 6, it's europe, V 6 or 8?
> > Detroit. They've been squirting them out forever.

The Ecotec will surpass honda's 4 banger I'm sure.

> I was actually kidding about the Honda V6 being garbage - just seeing if
> anyone was paying attention, seeing how Saturn is using this same engine /
> tranny in the '04+ V6 Vue. But the rest of my post was more-or-less serious.
> ;-) I don't really know if the Honda 5-speed auto-tranny is crap, but my
> brother did get a recall on his '02 Odyssey.

Actually the 3.5L is garbage. You cant touch the fuel injectors and you
cant remove the spark plugs without removing the intake from what I
recall. I dont like 60 deg motors.


> And I agree 100% with your take on engines by countries, and to add to
> that - domestic trucks rule and always have!

For sure. We use trucks daily so we know how to design them, they...
What do they need trucks for?

> > Honda's automatics don't excite me. They're also non planetary, which
> > is lame. If you've ever seen how GM's 4L60 gets 3 speeds + overdrive
> > from 2 simple planetaries, it's quite something...
>
> Domestic V6s and trannys have always been smooth to me and I rent allot of
> cars, from the 3.4L Alero (had one for 2 weeks just 3 weeks ago) to the
> Impala and Grand Prix GT. The 3800 is always a pleasure, as well as any
> other V6 that might be under those hoods. Trannys are always silky smooth.

The 3.1's 3.4's are 60 deg motors but are very smooth. The 3800 is
probably by far the best 6 cylinder on the market.


> I jumped in this thread because I thought Honda was being a little overly
> criticized with some of the comments. No acceleration and made for
> midgets??? Power and size are just fine for what it is IMO, and too many
> people have forgotten what the Civic is. It's the current inconsistent build
> quality that has me dissing it. Ok, a little more power might be good as
> long as mileage isn't sacrificed. My problem with the Civic is the same
> problem I have with some current Saturns. TOO MUCH FREGGIN' WEIGHT! My
> favorite Hondas and Saturns are the late '80s CRX Si's and 1st gen SC/SC2s.
> Hondas and Saturns use to be light and tossable but I guess those days are
> lone gone <sigh>.

To...much...weight??? The Ions weigh 2700Lbs and the L300's weigh
3000lbs! If they were any lighter they wouldnt stick to the road! Light
cars are considered bad by anyone in the car crash testing field anyhow.

> Hondas are just plain fugly nowadays anyway.

The '88-'91 Civics, especially the sedans/wagons, were very nicely styled.
The '84-'87 were nice also.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> Blah blah > wrote:
>
> > I need to get me one of those evo create motors...
>
> Harly motor? Screw the HD ones, get an S&S 113" Dump a better cam in,
> and have fun. They make wheelies easy and fun...
>

Gimme the money and I will! I aint gonna be popping no wheelies on a
chopper! A new stock engine at $2500 bucks is just fine for me. Cruising
is all I'm interested in.

In article >,
Blah blah > wrote:

> Gimme the money and I will! I aint gonna be popping no wheelies on a
> chopper! A new stock engine at $2500 bucks is just fine for me. Cruising
> is all I'm interested in.

Heh. Go ride an S&S motor >

Seriously, the extra $$$ even an S&S 89 or so costs is worth it for a
nicer motor.

And hey - what fun is a chopper with a pussy motor in it? My friend
with an 80" stock Fat Boy says it truely sucks not being able to keep
up. And it SUCKS waiting every 5th light for him :/

(Hey, not my fault the throttle's so much fun to twist open all the
way...)

In article >,
Blah blah > wrote:

> The Ecotec will surpass honda's 4 banger I'm sure.

Maybe. I try not to think of 4 bangers in general. I've always hated 4
banger cars.

> Actually the 3.5L is garbage. You cant touch the fuel injectors and you
> cant remove the spark plugs without removing the intake from what I
> recall. I dont like 60 deg motors.

Oh yes. That thing.

> For sure. We use trucks daily so we know how to design them, they...
> What do they need trucks for?

IIRC, Honda had a concept 'pikup' that a) couldn't fit a 4X8 sheet of
plywood in the back, and b) was not body on frame.

The Lincoln Blackwood flunked (a) too, but look how fast it died. Ok,
granted I laugh when I see the chevy ads dumping RR ties into the bed
from 10 feet up (that'd be a hole, Bob), but still, the big Three do
pickups better than anyone else because, well, we USE them. At least
some people still do, anyway...

> The 3.1's 3.4's are 60 deg motors but are very smooth. The 3800 is
> probably by far the best 6 cylinder on the market.

The 3800 is a great motor. I hear it gets freaky high mileage, too.
Even the 2.8 in my old ('87) Chevy wagon was good - it ran ran ran, and
never blew up in 225,000 miles. Actually, I think it's STILL running
out at a local airport as a tow car...

> To...much...weight??? The Ions weigh 2700Lbs and the L300's weigh
> 3000lbs! If they were any lighter they wouldnt stick to the road!

Oh sure they would.

> Light cars are considered bad by anyone in the car crash testing field anyhow.

No, just by the general public and the feds. There are plenty of
small/light cars that do well enough in crashes, but people can't get
over the 'smashed car' thing, and can't understand how and why crumple
zones work. NHTSA has been beating the 'big car' drum because it's
politically convinient, as opposed to pointing out that most 'drivers'
out there can't drive for ****.

> Maybe. I try not to think of 4 bangers in general. I've always hated 4
> banger cars.

With the rate their going trying to squeeze the power out of them their
starting to get the same mpg as a 6 cyl but still fall short on torque
and will never sound like a v6. I only look for 4 bangers for economy,
not speed, sound, or hp. Still I say the ecotec beats out honda's 4
bangers.

>
> > For sure. We use trucks daily so we know how to design them, they...
> > What do they need trucks for?
>
> IIRC, Honda had a concept 'pikup' that a) couldn't fit a 4X8 sheet of
> plywood in the back, and b) was not body on frame.

I think they or toyota was going to make a fwd truck. Yeah... Um put
something in the back and watch how far you get on wet level grass...


> The 3800 is a great motor. I hear it gets freaky high mileage, too.
> Even the 2.8 in my old ('87) Chevy wagon was good - it ran ran ran, and
> never blew up in 225,000 miles. Actually, I think it's STILL running
> out at a local airport as a tow car...

Yes the 3800 gets good gas mileage. Upwards of about 30mpg on a highway
doing about 70mph or so with cruise set. The tranny on the 2.8 I had was
a pos. Mileage gage stopped working around 61k then the tranny gave out
sometime later. Engine still starts with a bump of the starter though.

> > To...much...weight??? The Ions weigh 2700Lbs and the L300's weigh
> > 3000lbs! If they were any lighter they wouldnt stick to the road!
>
> Oh sure they would.
>
> > Light cars are considered bad by anyone in the car crash testing field anyhow.
>
> No, just by the general public and the feds. There are plenty of
> small/light cars that do well enough in crashes, but people can't get
> over the 'smashed car' thing, and can't understand how and why crumple
> zones work. NHTSA has been beating the 'big car' drum because it's
> politically convinient, as opposed to pointing out that most 'drivers'
> out there can't drive for ****.

Crumple zones work by slowing down the rate of deceleration. Instead of
the energy being focused on you its channeled into the car. Do you want
to hit a brick wall with just your tshirt on at 50mph or do you want
some sheet metal to "compress/crumple" infront of you bringing the speed
of the blow down? Either the car must "give" or your chest will. Not
hard to understand.

> Heh. Go ride an S&S motor >
>
> Seriously, the extra $$$ even an S&S 89 or so costs is worth it for a
> nicer motor.
>
> And hey - what fun is a chopper with a pussy motor in it? My friend
> with an 80" stock Fat Boy says it truely sucks not being able to keep
> up. And it SUCKS waiting every 5th light for him :/

Maybe he doesnt want to get his ass ran over by someone running a red
light :P

> (Hey, not my fault the throttle's so much fun to twist open all the
> way...)

If I was interested in speed I would buy a freak'n crotch rocket. I'm
not going out there on 2 wheels to get my body busted up in a high speed
wreck. Hell if triumphs werent getting so stupid in their prices I would
buy a t120 bonneville and chop it. Btw does your friend have a
acceleration pump on his carb?

In article >,
Blah blah > wrote:

> The tranny on the 2.8 I had was a pos.

3 speed or 4? The THM125C actually wasn't bad, but the TC clutch setup
was notorious for not unlocking when it should have. The 'fix' was
unplugging it.

> Maybe he doesnt want to get his ass ran over by someone running a red
> light :P

More like his bike can't move his ass for ****. It's a pain on the
highway, too.

> Btw does your friend have a acceleration pump on his carb?

Yeah, but his motor sucks anyway :/

In article >,
says...
> In article >,
> Blah blah > wrote:
>
> > The tranny on the 2.8 I had was a pos.
>
> 3 speed or 4? The THM125C actually wasn't bad, but the TC clutch setup
> was notorious for not unlocking when it should have. The 'fix' was
> unplugging it.

What ever a 1988 regal had. Cant remember what it had but if you look
them up on ebay theres a lot of them that say the odometer stopped at 60
some thousand.


> > Maybe he doesnt want to get his ass ran over by someone running a red
> > light :P
>
> More like his bike can't move his ass for ****. It's a pain on the
> highway, too.
>
> > Btw does your friend have a acceleration pump on his carb?
>
> Yeah, but his motor sucks anyway :/

Some port work might make his engine breath better. Not to hard to do
on a harley so long as you have had experience porting heads. Some of
the stock harley manifolds really sucked. Usually rough intake runners
give you good low end torque but poor upper end hp. In the right hands
any HD motor will do just as good if not better than a S&S. Just depends
on who's going through it. Me? I could probably make a HD engine run
really good but stock is all I want at this point in my life...

"Justin" <justin1138@REMOVEnet> wrote in message
57.130...
> > Hondas are just plain fugly nowadays anyway.
>
> The '88-'91 Civics, especially the sedans/wagons, were very nicely styled.
> The '84-'87 were nice also.

Yeah, I really liked those too. I did buy a new Civic LX in '92 but never
completely warmed up to the 'new' styling.

In '89, I bought a new CRX Si (technically a Civic) and it had a fantastic
wrap-around 'cockpit' and included some of the best seats (although cloth)
I've ever sat in. The late '80s were Honda's best styled cars, IMO. The
CRX's exterior was a little funky (i.e. glass back end), but the interior
was just fantastic. Even Accords (especially the LXi 'fast back' with pop-up
headlights) were sharp.

I remember in '90-''91, allot of my co-workers had purchased new Hondas
(mostly Accords, Preludes, and Integras) and the garage would be almost half
full of sharp looking (IMO) Hondas and Acuras side-by-side. We didn't even
know what "rice" was (apparently this disease hadn't reached Atlanta yet)
and our cars were all completely stock (appearance and performance). We kept
them up and enjoyed them for what they were.

How times have changed. Oh well.

Fit-and-finish aside, this is one of my favorite styled automobiles...
http://www.carsearch.nl/photo.htm
http://www.carsearch.nl/PONTIAC-FIERO-GT.htm

And for the grand prize winner which will never be matched (foreign or
domestic)...
http://www.quickercars.com/images/R0010941.jpg
--


Mark
'99 Civic Si


>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

I had a 71 Vega. I bought oil by the gallon ... seriously. It also rusted out
like the older honda's. I was just getting out of college ... I had to wear
one set of cloths on the way to the interviews and change when I got there ...
I was either sweating to death ... or if it rained ... it leaked in on me.