First NJ Red Light Cameras

On Aug 31, 8:43*pm, wrote:
> On Aug 31, 4:29*pm, " > wrote:
>
> > No discretion. Most camera tickets -- like 90 percent of them -- occur
> > in the first half second of red. It's all about revenue, not safety,
>
> Interesting. *Around here the first full second (or more) of red is a
> grace period and no ticket is issued.

Where is "here?" I've never seen a one-second grace period with no
ticket. That would eliminate 98 percent of all tickets and render tha
camera uneconomical,

In Denver, the system supposedly activates one-tenth of a second after
red.

On Aug 31, 8:51*pm, wrote:
> On Aug 31, 4:43*pm, " > wrote:
>
> > That is exponentially enhanced when the turn arrow short-cycles or is
> > purposely set below the demands of traffic. It's an engineering flaw,
> > not a driver flaw. If the turn arrow is generous enough, drivers will
> > stop on red because they haven't felt cheated.
>
> If you have a long enough cycle for one side, the other side will have
> a very long wait. *You can't violate the laws of physics when too many
> cars want to cross the same piece of ground.

I don't understand that statement.

> > > They've already been waiting for a while and don't want to wait
> > > through another full cycle, which could be five more minutes.
> > Do you have any examples of a five-minute cycle? I've never seen one
> > that long. Sounds like a malfunction.
>
> Lots of places, such as where a small street crosses a major highway.
> Traffic on the main highway gets priority to keep moving, while the
> side street must wait. *During rush hours the side streets can back
> up.

So where? I asked for an example, not a reassertion. Do you have any
intersections where this is the case? I'm not being argumentative, I
am curious.

> > > Also on highways where the speed limit is higher a yellow light means
> > > drivers must hit the brakes and slow down from their hgih speed.
>
> > No it doesn't. In nearly every state (Louisiana is one exception of
> > which I know) yellow means the light will soon turn red. In some
> > states (Oregon, I believe, is one) the law says you should stop if you
> > can safely do so, but a driver can legally enter on yellow.
>
> Sure a driver can enter a yellow, but a driver from a distance is able
> to stop and is supposed to stop. *The driver doesn't _want_ to stop.

But he does, virtually every time. Studies prove this. Red light
running has been virtually eliminated at properly timed and engineered
intersections. No one wants to die. Well, almost no one!

On Aug 31, 8:56*pm, Larry Sheldon > wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Aug 31, 7:23 pm, Larry Sheldon > wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >>> Drivers should never be slowing down for a green light.
> >> There are one or two safety experts who disagree.
>
> Ever hear of "The Smith System"? *The Automobile Club of Southern
> California? *The National Safety Council?
>
> I said I was out--but I could not let that one go.

If they advise slowing down while approaching a green light, they are
creating a traffic hazard. That's obvious. Green means go.

Dang. I just can't let go.

wrote:
> On Aug 31, 7:31 pm, Larry Sheldon > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>>> I can't find a source for the VC here, but lots of people won't cross
>>>> the limit line on a left turn if there is conflicting traffic.
>>> That is a bad habit, IMO. I always stake out my left turn in the box
>>> on green. At busy locations where there is no protected left phase, it
>>> is in fact necessary to do so or you would never get through.
>> In the twenty years I have lived here, I have been told a dozen times
>> that that is illegal here.
>
> Where is that?

Nebraska

>> As I said, I have never been able to find a way of accessing the VC here
>> without buying the whole (several hundreds of dollars worth) shelf of
>> books, so I don't actually know what the law says.
>
> You can do a VC search online by keyword. Are you in California? I
> know for a fact that what I am saying is legal in California.

I have California's book (most recent is probably 1989 when I left).
They used to cost $3.00 and had the MVC and relevant parts of the B&P
code. One of the few things I miss.

I did do a search--found one site quoting Nebraska's VC it looks like,
and the quoted section does not seem to say that entering is illegal.

But it is a common occurrence, and lots of people teach that you should
not enter an intersection until you are sure you can leave it.

I've never seen a dead person sitting at a corner with the left flasher
running. Oh, wait--around here you don't see the left flasher until the
turn is nearly finished. So I don't know.

I personally don't like left turns and do a lot to avoid them.

wrote:

> If they advise slowing down while approaching a green light, they are
> creating a traffic hazard. That's obvious. Green means go.

Among your problems is an inability to read--and another is an inability
to think.

I don't know anybody any place that said "slow down". Be prepared to
stop" is a very different thing.

As a matter of fact, if the light is really stale, I do take my foot off
the gas at the point where I would have to begin a reasonable stop and
get back on the gas at the go point--so there is probably a measurable
slowing, but unless I am in conditions like mud or going up a steep hill
nobody is going to notice.

And it they do, they were following to damned closely.


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N8N wrote:

> I am not aware of any state where that is illegal, but not knowing
> where you live, I can't state that with 100% certainty. (I believe
> Louisiana is a wild card, and is one state in which you actually can
> get a ticket for running a "yellow" light, which is just freaking
> insane.)

I believe WV is another state where it's illegal to be in an
intersection when the light is red (even if you entered while the light
was yellow and you're able to exit). I disagree with it as well since
that's not the case in most areas of the country.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:51:23 -0400, Arif Khokar wrote:

> N8N wrote:
>
>> I am not aware of any state where that is illegal, but not knowing
>> where you live, I can't state that with 100% certainty. (I believe
>> Louisiana is a wild card, and is one state in which you actually can
>> get a ticket for running a "yellow" light, which is just freaking
>> insane.)
>
> I believe WV is another state where it's illegal to be in an
> intersection when the light is red (even if you entered while the light
> was yellow and you're able to exit). I disagree with it as well since
> that's not the case in most areas of the country.

NY will also ticket you if the light turns red while you're in the
junction.



--
otto Yamamoto

On Aug 31, 9:26*pm, Larry Sheldon > wrote:
> Dang. *I just can't let go.
>
> wrote:
> > On Aug 31, 7:31 pm, Larry Sheldon > wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >>>> I can't find a source for the VC here, but lots of people won't cross
> >>>> the limit line on a left turn if there is conflicting traffic.
> >>> That is a bad habit, IMO. I always stake out my left turn in the box
> >>> on green. At busy locations where there is no protected left phase, it
> >>> is in fact necessary to do so or you would never get through.
> >> In the twenty years I have lived here, I have been told a dozen times
> >> that that is illegal here.
>
> > Where is that?
>
> Nebraska

I see no such prohibition in the Nebraska motor vehicle code.
http://uniweb.legislature.ne.gov/law...te=s6006123000

You might have misunderstood or it's the "safety" people making their
own extra-legal interpretations.

> >> As I said, I have never been able to find a way of accessing the VC here
> >> without buying the whole (several hundreds of dollars worth) shelf of
> >> books, so I don't actually know what the law says.
>
> > You can do a VC search online by keyword. Are you in California? I
> > know for a fact that what I am saying is legal in California.
>
> I have California's book (most recent is probably 1989 when I left).
> They used to cost $3.00 and had the MVC and relevant parts of the B&P
> code. *One of the few things I miss.

You can download it free online.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/vc.htm

> I did do a search--found one site quoting Nebraska's VC it looks like,
> and the quoted section does not seem to say that entering is illegal.

Correct. It is legal. It would be in the definition of steady green
ball.

> But it is a common occurrence, and lots of people teach that you should
> not enter an intersection until you are sure you can leave it.

That was not the situation. You can always leave it unless there's
traffic backed up in the turn street. I am talking about a simple
permissive left turn. If I am behind someone in a left turn lane and
they are not moving out into the box to stake out the turn, thereby
holding me up as they refuse to turn when safe, I will tap on the horn
to wake them up to their obligation to not block traffic.

> I've never seen a dead person sitting at a corner with the left flasher
> running. *

That's because they're turning when safe, as I suggest.

Oh, wait--around here you don't see the left flasher until the
> turn is nearly finished. *So I don't know.
>
> I personally don't like left turns and do a lot to avoid them.

Maybe you should not be driving! Left turns are a part of driving.

Otto Yamamoto wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 23:51:23 -0400, Arif Khokar wrote:

>> I believe WV is another state where it's illegal to be in an
>> intersection when the light is red (even if you entered while the light
>> was yellow and you're able to exit). I disagree with it as well since
>> that's not the case in most areas of the country.

> NY will also ticket you if the light turns red while you're in the
> junction.

Even if you're passing though at speed, or are you referring to
"blocking the box"?

On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:56:53 -0400, "Dave" > wrote:

>
>>Policeman also give tickets, which have money penalities attached.
>>They could also potentially be used to increase revenue.
>
>POTENTIALLY?!? OMFG, please tell me you aren't that naive, that you just
>play that naive on usenet. Please. -Dave

I don't think that that level of naivety can be faked...

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