2004 camry le 4 banger - how do I find the right front brake pads

Ohderii_Cruiser > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey > suggested:\
>>>I really only wanted OE quality at decent prices.
>>
>> OE quality is pretty crappy. I don't think you can get pads as bad as OEM
>> pads from any reputable suppliers. The manufacturer fits the car with the
>> worst tires and brake pads they think they can get away with.
>
>I don't disagree that OE might be crappy, but in most things safety
>related, nobody will put on WORSE replacement parts, than OE, right?

Right, because they can't buy them from legitimate suppliers anyway.

>However, these OE replacements are GG, which, in terms of cold & hot
>friction, is damn good, don't you think?

Dunno, drive the Tail of the Dragon and find out. The proof is in the
pudding.

You want friction to be controlled. You don't want grabby brakes any
more than you want brake fade.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 16/11/19 12:36 am, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Ohderii_Cruiser > wrote:
>> Scott Dorsey > suggested:\
>>>> I really only wanted OE quality at decent prices.
>>>
>>> OE quality is pretty crappy. I don't think you can get pads as bad as OEM
>>> pads from any reputable suppliers. The manufacturer fits the car with the
>>> worst tires and brake pads they think they can get away with.
>>
>> I don't disagree that OE might be crappy, but in most things safety
>> related, nobody will put on WORSE replacement parts, than OE, right?
>
> Right, because they can't buy them from legitimate suppliers anyway.
>
>> However, these OE replacements are GG, which, in terms of cold & hot
>> friction, is damn good, don't you think?
>
> Dunno, drive the Tail of the Dragon and find out. The proof is in the
> pudding.
>
> You want friction to be controlled. You don't want grabby brakes any
> more than you want brake fade.
> --scott
>
Generally, a pad with a higher friction component will wear more
quickly. Basically, braking capacity is a tradeoff between pad life and
braking ability. OEM pads on most cars are way better nowadays since
they no longer use asbestos. Asbestos pads had long reached their limits
as a friction material.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno > suggested:\
>> You want friction to be controlled. You don't want grabby brakes any
>> more than you want brake fade.
>> --scott
>>
> Generally, a pad with a higher friction component will wear more
> quickly. Basically, braking capacity is a tradeoff between pad life and
> braking ability. OEM pads on most cars are way better nowadays since
> they no longer use asbestos. Asbestos pads had long reached their limits
> as a friction material.

Thanks for the advice where if OEM pads were really bad in terms of
friction, people would be having accidents left and right, considering how
critical friction is to braking (it's clearly the number one role of a
brake pad).

So OE pads can't be all that bad in terms of friction ratings.

I wish I knew what friction rating the OE pads had, because I can't even
say how much wear they got in miles as this is a used car's first brake job
by me.

All I can say is GG friction is damn good.

If that GG friction quickly wears the rotors, I'll know after a couple of
years, since I'm going to replace the rotors at the same time as the pads
(the vehicle is lent out at the moment but will return in two weeks for the
repair).

I'll mic the old roters, but that won't really tell me much, but if they're
still within spec, we can assume they went on with the pads also.

But I repeat with astonishment that GG friction is damn good friction.

I don't think in my entire life I've ever had pads with GG friction, where
I wonder if any of you ever had pads with friction that good?

The best I've ever had was FF before (which was fine).

Have any of you ever had GG friction pads or better?

What did you think of them?

On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 20:18:44 -0600, in rec.autos.tech you wrote:

>> I was surprised that the parts supplier sent me a GG pad by
>> the way.
>> Does the rating go any higher than GG or is GG as high as it
>> gets?
>
> http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/~smacadof/DOTPadCodes.htm

Thanks for that lookup because the number 1 job of pads is friction.
http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/~smacadof/DOTPadCodes.htm

It looks like this brake pad friction rating goes only as high as HH.

EE CF is 0.25 to 0.35 @250F, 0.25 to 0.35 @600F, 0-25% fade @600F possible
FE CF is 0.25 to 0.35 @250F, 0.35 to 0.45 @600F, 2% to 44% fade @600F possible
FF CF is 0.35 to 0.45 @250F, 0.35 to 0.45 @600F, 0-22% fade @600F possible
GG CF is 0.45 to 0.55, very rare
HH CF is 0.55 to 0.65, Carbon/Carbon only, ok up to 3000F where it glows

"Steel has a C.F. of 0.25!! So EE pads have only marginally more torque
than no pads at all! Therefore FF pads are usually considered the minimum
for a high-performance pad."

Ohderii_Cruiser > wrote:
>Thanks for the advice where if OEM pads were really bad in terms of
>friction, people would be having accidents left and right, considering how
>critical friction is to braking (it's clearly the number one role of a
>brake pad).
>
>So OE pads can't be all that bad in terms of friction ratings.

They're not. The worst pads made today are better than anything you could
buy in the fifties.

But you can also buy high performance pads that have much better stopping
power than the OEM pads, at the expense of higher cost and shorter lifetime.

>I wish I knew what friction rating the OE pads had, because I can't even
>say how much wear they got in miles as this is a used car's first brake job
>by me.
>
>All I can say is GG friction is damn good.

Go take it out on the Tail of the Dragon and see if you can still say that.
The thing is, average driving really is not very demanding on brakes. Most
people today have never experienced brake fade and never will.

>I don't think in my entire life I've ever had pads with GG friction, where
>I wonder if any of you ever had pads with friction that good?

I have had pads with much higher ratings, on sports cars where there is
actually some benefit to it. They are combined with very sticky tires,
because the best brakes won't help you if your tires are slipping. However,
I would not bother with any of this on the family sedan where you are
unlikely to break 75 mph even on the straightaway.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

On 16/11/19 12:47 pm, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Ohderii_Cruiser > wrote:
>> Thanks for the advice where if OEM pads were really bad in terms of
>> friction, people would be having accidents left and right, considering how
>> critical friction is to braking (it's clearly the number one role of a
>> brake pad).
>>
>> So OE pads can't be all that bad in terms of friction ratings.
>
> They're not. The worst pads made today are better than anything you could
> buy in the fifties.

From what I recall of cars of the 50's, disc pads were a rare beast.
Riveted linings on brake shoes with drum brakes were de rigueur. It was
the late 60s, even the 70s, before disc brakes became the norm.
>
> But you can also buy high performance pads that have much better stopping
> power than the OEM pads, at the expense of higher cost and shorter lifetime.

Very true. Depending on the friction material used, the disc can wear
out in no time at all. Some GM products of the 90s had OEM pads that
were so hard on discs that disc replacement with pad replacement was the
norm. The mileage wasn't all that great either, 20,000 - 40,000
kilometres only.
>
>> I wish I knew what friction rating the OE pads had, because I can't even
>> say how much wear they got in miles as this is a used car's first brake job
>> by me.
>>
>> All I can say is GG friction is damn good.
>
> Go take it out on the Tail of the Dragon and see if you can still say that.
> The thing is, average driving really is not very demanding on brakes. Most
> people today have never experienced brake fade and never will.

In all my time in the trade, I have experienced it only once - and that
was enough. I was lucky on that occasion as I had a run off I could take
as an alternative because there was no way I was going round that right
angle bend at the speed I was traveling. That was when I was very young
and, as a consequence, I used engine braking religiously ever since in
an effort to reduce the possibility of brake overheating - even with
autos. Taught my wife to drive the same way.
>
>> I don't think in my entire life I've ever had pads with GG friction, where
>> I wonder if any of you ever had pads with friction that good?
>
> I have had pads with much higher ratings, on sports cars where there is
> actually some benefit to it. They are combined with very sticky tires,
> because the best brakes won't help you if your tires are slipping. However,
> I would not bother with any of this on the family sedan where you are
> unlikely to break 75 mph even on the straightaway.
> --scott
>
There are some areas around here where good braking is essential -
mountainous winding roads for instance. But you are 100% correct,
improving the brakes is of no benefit if you don't similarly uprate the
grip of the tyres. Then you only get to exercise your ABS - if fitted.

--

Xeno


Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)