timing problems

I'm trying to set the timing on my 77 FI Bug. I cleaned the points and set
the gap. I used a timing light but if I set it to spec, the engine idles
real rough and almost seems like it wants to stall. I played with the
'idle' screw and tried to keep it between 900 & 1000 RPM.
The engine seems to run OK, but just a bit rough when it idles only if I
adjust the timing by 'sight & feel'. As a result, it's not at the correct
mark on the pulley.

Am I missing something?
Do I replace the points?

I've done complete rebuilds on engine and bodies, but the timing, always
seems to be a pain for me.

--
Mel P.

77 Bug & 70 KG Cabrio sites:
http://www.geocities.com/mpernice/

PARTS FOR SALE: http://www.geocities.com/mpernice/VWPARTS/index.htm

Mel P. wrote:
> I'm trying to set the timing on my 77 FI Bug. I cleaned the points and
> set the gap. I used a timing light but if I set it to spec, the engine
> idles real rough and almost seems like it wants to stall. I played with
> the 'idle' screw and tried to keep it between 900 & 1000 RPM.
> The engine seems to run OK, but just a bit rough when it idles only if I
> adjust the timing by 'sight & feel'. As a result, it's not at the
> correct mark on the pulley.
>
> Am I missing something?
> Do I replace the points?
>
> I've done complete rebuilds on engine and bodies, but the timing, always
> seems to be a pain for me.
>

That distrib should have 2 vac hoses. And time to 5 deg AFTER TDC. Right?
Suck on each hose and see if the advance plate moves to the stop
and stays there. If it fails that test, you can't time it.

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

On Wed, 13 May 2009 03:45:05 +0200, Speedy Jim > wrote:

> Mel P. wrote:
>> I'm trying to set the timing on my 77 FI Bug. I cleaned the points and
>> set the gap. I used a timing light but if I set it to spec, the engine
>> idles real rough and almost seems like it wants to stall. I played
>> with the 'idle' screw and tried to keep it between 900 & 1000 RPM.
>> The engine seems to run OK, but just a bit rough when it idles only if
>> I adjust the timing by 'sight & feel'. As a result, it's not at the
>> correct mark on the pulley.
>> Am I missing something?
>> Do I replace the points?
>> I've done complete rebuilds on engine and bodies, but the timing,
>> always seems to be a pain for me.
>>
>
> That distrib should have 2 vac hoses. And time to 5 deg AFTER TDC.
> Right?
> Suck on each hose and see if the advance plate moves to the stop
> and stays there. If it fails that test, you can't time it.
>
> Speedy Jim
> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/
>

I'm getting rusty att this, but the 5 deg after tdc distributor is timed differntly from the others? Both vac hoses off?? I could look it up if needed.

J.
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

P.J.Berg wrote:
> On Wed, 13 May 2009 03:45:05 +0200, Speedy Jim > wrote:
>
>> Mel P. wrote:
>>> I'm trying to set the timing on my 77 FI Bug. I cleaned the points and
>>> set the gap. I used a timing light but if I set it to spec, the engine
>>> idles real rough and almost seems like it wants to stall. I played
>>> with the 'idle' screw and tried to keep it between 900 & 1000 RPM.
>>> The engine seems to run OK, but just a bit rough when it idles only if
>>> I adjust the timing by 'sight & feel'. As a result, it's not at the
>>> correct mark on the pulley.
>>> Am I missing something?
>>> Do I replace the points?
>>> I've done complete rebuilds on engine and bodies, but the timing,
>>> always seems to be a pain for me.
>>>
>> That distrib should have 2 vac hoses. And time to 5 deg AFTER TDC.
>> Right?
>> Suck on each hose and see if the advance plate moves to the stop
>> and stays there. If it fails that test, you can't time it.
>>
>> Speedy Jim
>> http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/
>>
>
> I'm getting rusty att this, but the 5 deg after tdc distributor is timed differntly from the others? Both vac hoses off?? I could look it up if needed.
>
> J.

No, both hoses connected.

Jim

On May 12, 9:45*pm, Speedy Jim > wrote:
> Mel P. wrote:
> > I'm trying to set the timing on my 77 FI Bug. *I cleaned the points and
> > set the gap. *I used a timing light but if I set it to spec, the engine
> > idles real rough and almost seems like it wants to stall. *I played with
> > the 'idle' screw and tried to keep it between 900 & 1000 RPM.
> > The engine seems to run OK, but just a bit rough when it idles only if I
> > adjust the timing by 'sight & feel'. *As a result, it's not at the
> > correct mark on the pulley.
>
> > Am I missing something?
> > Do I replace the points?
>
> > I've done complete rebuilds on engine and bodies, but the timing, always
> > seems to be a pain for me.
>
> That distrib should have 2 vac hoses. *And time to 5 deg AFTER TDC. *Right?
> Suck on each hose and see if the advance plate moves to the stop
> and stays there. *If it fails that test, you can't time it.
>
> Speedy Jimhttp://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

...
Speedy Jim

1) Do you (or Bob Hoover or others) have an opinion on the change I
suggest below, for those 2-hose DVDA distributors which, yes,
should have both hoses attached and timed to 5 degrees ATDC?

2) Understanding that the "retard" hose is strictly for emission
standards, will the engines run well diconnecting the "retard" hose,
plugging the port, then timing it to 0 degrees (with advance hose
off), or even 7.5 degrees BTDC (with advance hose off) ???

Ross Virgin
Toronto, Canada
1972 SuperBeetle, with original paint, no rust, even driving
it in the snow and salt... yup mechanic told me to
spray the crap out of it, everywhere with oil. Does
wonders.
...
...

"amboslacker" > wrote in message
...


> 2) Understanding that the "retard" hose is strictly for emission
>standards, will the engines run well diconnecting the "retard" hose,
>plugging the port, then timing it to 0 degrees (with advance hose
>off), or even 7.5 degrees BTDC (with advance hose off) ???

you can do that... unhook the retard function and it acts like the common
"SVDA"... plug the retard port on the carburetor, but I'm not sure that I'd
plug off the port on the retard side of the vacuum canister... It may be
negligible but if that port is plugged on the canister it could cause
resistance due to being sealed when the advance side is working.

It may not advance or retard at the same speed with the retard part
unplugged!
Remember that some advance will kick in as soon as vacuum is lost to the
retard part, but now it will have to wait until the vacuum kicks in to the
advance part and the mechanical advance comes on line when the engine speeds
up.

So you may not get the optimum performance, but then again you might! lol

"Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
...
>
> "amboslacker" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>> 2) Understanding that the "retard" hose is strictly for emission
>>standards, will the engines run well diconnecting the "retard" hose,
>>plugging the port, then timing it to 0 degrees (with advance hose
>>off), or even 7.5 degrees BTDC (with advance hose off) ???
>
> you can do that... unhook the retard function and it acts like the
> common "SVDA"... plug the retard port on the carburetor, but I'm not sure
> that I'd plug off the port on the retard side of the vacuum canister... It
> may be negligible but if that port is plugged on the canister it could
> cause resistance due to being sealed when the advance side is working.
>

"dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote in message
...
> It may not advance or retard at the same speed with the retard part
> unplugged!
> Remember that some advance will kick in as soon as vacuum is lost to the
> retard part, but now it will have to wait until the vacuum kicks in to the
> advance part and the mechanical advance comes on line when the engine
> speeds up.
>
> So you may not get the optimum performance, but then again you might! lol
>

that's why you treat it(IE: time it) like a SVDA...at idle the retard is
approximately 13 degrees...that must be compensated for with initial timing,
5 degrees ATDC would no longer be applicable.

True time it like a SVDA but I thought that the camshaft might be different
due to emission crap on the engine yet still provide some power on the FI-ed
Beetles.
So for better acceleration or power this push-pull advance distributor is
best maybe?????

Best is to time it for total advance at the correct rpm like with the Type 4
engines or some Porsche engines.

"Joey Tribiani" > wrote in message
...
>
> "dave AKA vwdoc1" > wrote in message
> ...
>> It may not advance or retard at the same speed with the retard part
>> unplugged!
>> Remember that some advance will kick in as soon as vacuum is lost to the
>> retard part, but now it will have to wait until the vacuum kicks in to
>> the advance part and the mechanical advance comes on line when the engine
>> speeds up.
>>
>> So you may not get the optimum performance, but then again you might!
>> lol
>>
>
> that's why you treat it(IE: time it) like a SVDA...at idle the retard is
> approximately 13 degrees...that must be compensated for with initial
> timing, 5 degrees ATDC would no longer be applicable.