What am I missing?

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:29:17 +0200, "gixer" > wrote:

>Natman, I think if you concentrate on the word DEDICATED mate you might find
>that your dizziness will stop.
>
>There is a major difference between an "open top sports car" and DEDICATED
>sports car.
>
>Ded-i-cated adj designed to carry out only one task, or set aside for a
>purpose.
>
>
>
>Non one would argue that a Miata is a sports car, but in my opinion a
>dedicated sports car would be 1 or all of the car I listed.
>
>
>
>Cheers Mark.
>
I figured that dedicated was the key. Thanks for managing to come up
with a list of cars that would actually be LESS suitable for a long
trip than the Miata. Note that it is a short list.

Natman, please read my posts again, to help you I have copied and pasted my
previous comments below.

"It would take me hours to write all the completely unsuitable cars"

"To be honest I can't think of many cars that are AS suitable as the MX-5"

It was as I said at the time, the list I came up with was, JUST A FEW that
came to mind.

I am not going to sit for hours and write the name of every car I believe to
be less suitable than the Miata.

I do not think it would prove too much of a stretch of your imagination to
realise that if I did indeed write I list it would be extremely long, which
is exactly the impression I gave from my previous posts.
I would like to suggest that you should read through posts completely before
commenting.

It would also be helpful to us and further your point if you would let us
know, what cars (I think within the price spec of the Miata in the original
post is fare, which I believe is a 20003 Special Edition) you believe are
more suitable to the task discussed and why, so that we may comment on your
views, rather than has been in this case asking for other peoples comments
and then attempting to shoot holes in their views.

And please bare in mind that this is something that is completely
subjective, one mans tourer is another mans sports car.

Cheers


"Natman" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:29:17 +0200, "gixer" > wrote:
>
>>Natman, I think if you concentrate on the word DEDICATED mate you might
>>find
>>that your dizziness will stop.
>>
>>There is a major difference between an "open top sports car" and DEDICATED
>>sports car.
>>
>>Ded-i-cated adj designed to carry out only one task, or set aside for a
>>purpose.
>>
>>
>>
>>Non one would argue that a Miata is a sports car, but in my opinion a
>>dedicated sports car would be 1 or all of the car I listed.
>>
>>
>>
>>Cheers Mark.
>>
> I figured that dedicated was the key. Thanks for managing to come up
> with a list of cars that would actually be LESS suitable for a long
> trip than the Miata. Note that it is a short list.
>
>
>

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:22:05 +0200, "gixer" > wrote:

>Natman, please read my posts again, to help you I have copied and pasted my
>previous comments below.
>
>"It would take me hours to write all the completely unsuitable cars"
>
>"To be honest I can't think of many cars that are AS suitable as the MX-5"
>
>It was as I said at the time, the list I came up with was, JUST A FEW that
>came to mind.
>
>I am not going to sit for hours and write the name of every car I believe to
>be less suitable than the Miata.
>
>I do not think it would prove too much of a stretch of your imagination to
>realise that if I did indeed write I list it would be extremely long, which
>is exactly the impression I gave from my previous posts.
>I would like to suggest that you should read through posts completely before
>commenting.
>
>It would also be helpful to us and further your point if you would let us
>know, what cars (I think within the price spec of the Miata in the original
>post is fare, which I believe is a 20003 Special Edition) you believe are
>more suitable to the task discussed and why, so that we may comment on your
>views, rather than has been in this case asking for other peoples comments
>and then attempting to shoot holes in their views.
>
>And please bare in mind that this is something that is completely
>subjective, one mans tourer is another mans sports car.
>
>Cheers
>
The Miata is a fine car in many ways, I enjoy mine very much. But it
is specialized, sacrificing comfort for handling and light weight. For
the SPECIALIZED circumstances of driving a long distance freeway trip
of 12 hour days droning along at 70 mph or so the Miata is not really
suitable because:

It is tiny. I have found a position that is reasonably comfortable,
but it is the ONLY one. Having to hold it for 12 hours a day would be
awful.

It turns 4000 RPM at 70. Listening to the constant drone would be most
unpleasant.

It rides like a sports car.

There is no room for luggage.

The fine handling and responsiveness that makes a Miata so great is
wasted under these circumstances.

So again, *exclusively* for the specialized task of long distance
touring, almost ANY car would be better suited. A Toyota Camry. A
Dodge Neon. At least you could vary your position, hear yourself think
and carry a cooler in the back. For 12 hour days of straightline
cruising you WANT a little bit of that "rolling couch" in the mix.
Comfort is key and the Miata simply doesn't have it.

If you can draw a night-and-day distinction between a "dedicated
sports car" and a "sports car", surely you can understand the
difference between a "sports car" and a "touring car".

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree Natman.

The furthest I can remember travelling in 1 day, was Athens to Bucharest
which was about 700 miles, there is no way to travel this length of time (if
memory serves it was about 20 hours with lunch & petrol stops and customs)
sitting in one place, that can possibly be comfortable, if I spend 20 hours
in bed, I would be aching the next day.

What I did find was that the Miata was as comfortable, as any other car I
have driven (and that is many), if not more so, the low slung legs out in
front of position, for me is extremely comfortable.
I am 5'8 so not the exactly in Dennis Rodmen territory, I have also shaped
the seat to fit me better, so small things can make a big difference, also
mine is an Automatic so the gearing is really low in top, and we found a way
around the luggage problem (luggage rack),

I understand what you are saying Natman, but from my experiences of long
distance driving, in many different types, makes, engines sizes gearbox
types, the Miata, is very near the top for long distance driving.

The only cars I have driven that MAYBE challenge the Miata are the old type
BMW M5, an Aston Martin DB7 Vantage and a TVR Cerbera all of which were
fairly new at the time and in a different country as far as price goes.

I don't know if it's the same car your referring to, but we have the
Chrysler Neon in the UK, and I had the misfortune of having one as a
replacement for my Ford Mondeo while it was in for accident repairs, I think
it was a 2.0L but it was terrible,
It was a supposed to be an upgrade from the Mondeo, as it was fully kitted
with everything, in the 2-3 weeks I had it, went back to the garage at least
4 times, after the 3rd time I swapped cars with my wife (a 1994 VW Golf) it
was that bad, so reliability is more important than comfort.

Each to their own though Natman,
But I honestly feel you are missing out on so much, doing a trip in a open
top car is a completely different experience than in a saloon,
To me the feeling of the wind, the noise and smells are what make a trip
memorable trip, rather than just a trip, and that to me outweighs any
shortcomings with the car.

Cheers



"Natman" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 19:22:05 +0200, "gixer" > wrote:
>
>>Natman, please read my posts again, to help you I have copied and pasted
>>my
>>previous comments below.
>>
>>"It would take me hours to write all the completely unsuitable cars"
>>
>>"To be honest I can't think of many cars that are AS suitable as the MX-5"
>>
>>It was as I said at the time, the list I came up with was, JUST A FEW that
>>came to mind.
>>
>>I am not going to sit for hours and write the name of every car I believe
>>to
>>be less suitable than the Miata.
>>
>>I do not think it would prove too much of a stretch of your imagination to
>>realise that if I did indeed write I list it would be extremely long,
>>which
>>is exactly the impression I gave from my previous posts.
>>I would like to suggest that you should read through posts completely
>>before
>>commenting.
>>
>>It would also be helpful to us and further your point if you would let us
>>know, what cars (I think within the price spec of the Miata in the
>>original
>>post is fare, which I believe is a 20003 Special Edition) you believe are
>>more suitable to the task discussed and why, so that we may comment on
>>your
>>views, rather than has been in this case asking for other peoples comments
>>and then attempting to shoot holes in their views.
>>
>>And please bare in mind that this is something that is completely
>>subjective, one mans tourer is another mans sports car.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
> The Miata is a fine car in many ways, I enjoy mine very much. But it
> is specialized, sacrificing comfort for handling and light weight. For
> the SPECIALIZED circumstances of driving a long distance freeway trip
> of 12 hour days droning along at 70 mph or so the Miata is not really
> suitable because:
>
> It is tiny. I have found a position that is reasonably comfortable,
> but it is the ONLY one. Having to hold it for 12 hours a day would be
> awful.
>
> It turns 4000 RPM at 70. Listening to the constant drone would be most
> unpleasant.
>
> It rides like a sports car.
>
> There is no room for luggage.
>
> The fine handling and responsiveness that makes a Miata so great is
> wasted under these circumstances.
>
> So again, *exclusively* for the specialized task of long distance
> touring, almost ANY car would be better suited. A Toyota Camry. A
> Dodge Neon. At least you could vary your position, hear yourself think
> and carry a cooler in the back. For 12 hour days of straightline
> cruising you WANT a little bit of that "rolling couch" in the mix.
> Comfort is key and the Miata simply doesn't have it.
>
> If you can draw a night-and-day distinction between a "dedicated
> sports car" and a "sports car", surely you can understand the
> difference between a "sports car" and a "touring car".
>
>

(Natman) wrote in
:

> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 03:18:05 -0700, XS11E >
> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>> Enjoy the Miata - and keep your leather jacket or whatever you
>>> used to wear on the bike, and the earplugs; they'll come in
>>> handy when you're driving with the top down in sub-freezing
>>> temperatures
>>> :-)
>>
>>Thanks, could you please explain the unfamiliar term "sub-freezing
>>temperatures" for those of us who live in Phoenix, Arizona? <g>
>
> During subfreezing temperatures, water (you know, the stuff that
> comes out of the faucet and disappears when you go outside)
> actually turns in to a solid substance, similar to the cubes you
> put in a drink!

Really, like the stuff that runs in the irrigation canals? <G>

I spent a few weeks in Rochester, Minnesota in the winter so I know a
little bit about cold, I have to say I didn't like it much. :-(

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:10:24 +0200, "gixer" > wrote:

>I think we are going to have to agree to disagree Natman.
>
>The furthest I can remember travelling in 1 day, was Athens to Bucharest
>which was about 700 miles, there is no way to travel this length of time (if
>memory serves it was about 20 hours with lunch & petrol stops and customs)
>sitting in one place, that can possibly be comfortable, if I spend 20 hours
>in bed, I would be aching the next day.
>
Precisely my point.

>What I did find was that the Miata was as comfortable, as any other car I
>have driven (and that is many), if not more so, the low slung legs out in
>front of position, for me is extremely comfortable.
>I am 5'8 so not the exactly in Dennis Rodmen territory, I have also shaped
>the seat to fit me better, so small things can make a big difference, also
>mine is an Automatic so the gearing is really low in top, and we found a way
>around the luggage problem (luggage rack),
I'm six feet tall. That extra four inches does make a difference in
the number of positions the Miata offers.

>
>I understand what you are saying Natman, but from my experiences of long
>distance driving, in many different types, makes, engines sizes gearbox
>types, the Miata, is very near the top for long distance driving.
>
>The only cars I have driven that MAYBE challenge the Miata are the old type
>BMW M5, an Aston Martin DB7 Vantage and a TVR Cerbera all of which were
>fairly new at the time and in a different country as far as price goes.
>
>I don't know if it's the same car your referring to, but we have the
>Chrysler Neon in the UK, and I had the misfortune of having one as a
>replacement for my Ford Mondeo while it was in for accident repairs, I think
>it was a 2.0L but it was terrible,
>It was a supposed to be an upgrade from the Mondeo, as it was fully kitted
>with everything, in the 2-3 weeks I had it, went back to the garage at least
>4 times, after the 3rd time I swapped cars with my wife (a 1994 VW Golf) it
>was that bad, so reliability is more important than comfort.

Sorry you had a bad experience with yours. The Neon may not be the
most reliable car out there, but your experience was NOT typical.
>
>Each to their own though Natman,
>But I honestly feel you are missing out on so much, doing a trip in a open
>top car is a completely different experience than in a saloon,
>To me the feeling of the wind, the noise and smells are what make a trip
>memorable trip, rather than just a trip, and that to me outweighs any
>shortcomings with the car.
>
I love riding with the top down too. 12 hours at a stretch on the
freeway would be a bit much for me though, especially through Arizona
and New Mexico where odds are it is either blazing hot (100 F, 38C)
or winter.

>Cheers
Let's let it rest at that. Best of luck.

(BRUCE HASKIN) wrote:

>WOW ! That is a lot of seat time !
>
>Let's see, If you drove 8 hr's a day 5 days a week, that's 2080 hours a
>year and you needed to stop for gas, eat and pee, plus start and stop,
>you needed to average 28.846153 miles per hour. [ it is hard to average
>much faster than that, no matter where you drive ]

With having to post 10 or so 10,000 word messages a day on at least
this group, he must be averaging 50 mph at least.

Leon


> You must have a good
>paying job on the week-ends to do that ! :-)
>
> Bruce RED '91

--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

(Natman) wrote:

>The Miata is a fine car in many ways, I enjoy mine very much. But it
>is specialized, sacrificing comfort for handling and light weight. For

Mine is very comfortable.

>the SPECIALIZED circumstances of driving a long distance freeway trip
>of 12 hour days droning along at 70 mph or so the Miata is not really
>suitable because:
>
>It is tiny. I have found a position that is reasonably comfortable,
>but it is the ONLY one. Having to hold it for 12 hours a day would be
>awful.

It is not tiny. It is big. Too big, if you ask me. But it does
allow me to stretch out. Do I have a sneaking suspicion that you
are selfishly putting a disproportionate stress on the world food
supply by being over 5'7"? Also, a car *pollutes more* by having
to accelerate oversize drivers, adding to *global warming*!

>It turns 4000 RPM at 70. Listening to the constant drone would be most
>unpleasant.

Absolutely. I love to downshift to 4th and have some bad engine
and exhaust noise below overpasses.

>It rides like a sports car.

So it does! )

>There is no room for luggage.

Correction. There is plenty of room for luggage for a month
long trip, plus for about 6 six packs of bottles of beer if
you want to avoid having to drink the local poison or, worse,
budweiser, and a few bottles of Tio Pepe if you may be going
through rural states where they may not have it, plus for full
tools if you happen to have replaced about every part on your
Miata with aftermarket and added a supercharger, plus for a
computer with CD-RW drive for backups, full size mouse, cables,
power protectors, etc, plus guide books etc, jump cables, spare
parts and bulbs, etc.

>The fine handling and responsiveness that makes a Miata so great is
>wasted under these circumstances.

I beg to disagree. Even on the Interstate, it is still good to carry
the thought that you are driving a car, not a sled.

>So again, *exclusively* for the specialized task of long distance
>touring, almost ANY car would be better suited. A Toyota Camry.

Uncomfortable. Puts you to sleep.

> A
>Dodge Neon.

I believe I had a rental neon once. But I hope not, for your sake.

> At least you could vary your position,

Sure. To upside down in the ditch.

> hear yourself think

Sure. "What a piece of s**t is this! How long to I get there? DID
I ONLY MAKE THAT MUCH PROGRESS?? IS IT REALLY STILL MORNING?? This
car still stinks and you are supposed to not notice after some time.
I think it is chemicals coming from the plastic. Those seats are really
uncomfortable. The seats are too high compared to the pedals. Wish
the AC would not either freeze you or leave you boiled..."

>and carry a cooler in the back.

Actually, I do carry a cooler in the trunk. The high temperatures,
especially in the deserts, are not good for the wine and sherry.

> For 12 hour days of straightline
>cruising you WANT a little bit of that "rolling couch" in the mix.

Absolutely. No better thing than to fall asleep on a 12 hour day of
driving.

>Comfort is key

It sure is.

> and the Miata simply doesn't have it.

What not? Breakdowns that allow you to stretch out at a shop?

>If you can draw a night-and-day distinction between a "dedicated
>sports car" and a "sports car",

I cannot. Have you met anyone who can?

> surely you can understand the
>difference between a "sports car" and a "touring car".

That I can. The Miata is one of the best in both categories, in
my experience. Now *muscle car,* there is where the Miata is out
of its element.

Leon

--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

Gee, I would think that a "dedicated sports car" would be one that could
only be driven on a 'track"! What else would it be "dedicated" to ? I'm
sure that Mazda did not have that in mind when they designed the MX-5 !
They would not have put in "air bags" for the US much less A/C, a radio,
turn signals and a horn ! (Not used on any track I have driven on :-) )

Please let's not cross compitition sports cars with streetable sports
cars. They just are not the same items. I know the UK and EU people love
to throw around their talk about "True Sports Cars", but a street car is
a street car and NOT a track only car !

Just my take on this. ( some of you are just blowing smoke out your
...... "nose". )

Bruce RED '91

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:55:32 GMT,
(Leon van Dommelen) wrote:


One general observation. The importance you place on comfort will
change between your 20s and your 60s (remember the original poster?).
I'm not 60 yet, but I'm closer to it than 20. If you don't know why I
put such an emphasis on comfort, just wait. You'll find out.

>
>>If you can draw a night-and-day distinction between a "dedicated
>>sports car" and a "sports car",
>
>I cannot. Have you met anyone who can?

Talk to gixer. He can not only draw the distinction, he expects
everyone to recognize it without any explanation.

The two of you should get along well. Enjoy each other's company.