In Ontario, texting retards are going away

OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and attrition
will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....

Unfortunately, the bad drivers are going to take some good drivers with
them - right?

But you don't need to worry because there's no way it can happen to you....

I have deleted all other text... because, by the time you get here, you
should already know what all the other text is about...

Top posting is "lazy".... that's a bit of a stretch, ain't it?

On 2009-11-11, Jim Warman > wrote:
> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and attrition
> will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....

I see you're totally incapable of rational discussion.

Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn
something.

This isn't Germany... we do not have any European
attitudes/background/upbringing...

Most of all, automobile ownership per capita is highest in north America....
Here, almost everyone owns a vehicle... often, it is in less than ideal
condition....

In Europe, not everyone owns a car... it is much more of a luxury to them
than it is to us... additionally, vehicle maintenance is much more of an
issue in Europe.

I am honestly trying to rationalize your position... but you haven't offered
an alternative... you haven't demonstrated a benefit...

Many years ago, I met an old "finishing" carpenter.... older than dirt, this
guy owned no power tools.... everything he did was by hand.... He would tell
us that he made his mistakes 'slowly'... that way he could stop them before
they happened.... With power tools, his mistakes happened far too fast... by
the time he realize the mistake was happening, it was over and done...

You aren't trying to justify safety.. you are trying to justify your desire
to go faster than necessary.... his is why God built race tracks....
whoops... what was that about driveshaft loops and safety and all that other
useless crap????

I'm not the guy with tetra ethyl lead in my e-mail address....


"Brent" > wrote in message
...
> On 2009-11-11, Jim Warman > wrote:
>> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and
>> attrition
>> will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....
>
> I see you're totally incapable of rational discussion.
>
> Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn
> something.
>
>

On 2009-11-11, Jim Warman > wrote:
> This isn't Germany... we do not have any European
> attitudes/background/upbringing...

Us stupid americans can't handle it? Is that what you're trying to say?

> Most of all, automobile ownership per capita is highest in north America....
> Here, almost everyone owns a vehicle... often, it is in less than ideal
> condition....

And you think that if the speed limit were set properly those people who
own those POS cars would start doing 90mph because they are stupid
americans? Setting everything to the lowest common demonator as has
been done in the USA is clearly a failure. Ever growing disrespect for
all rules of the road, crushing congestion, rudeness, frustration,
danger, abuses of government power, and so on. For what? A stupid and
pointless attempt to make people drive as slow as few think they should.
It's failed.

People choose their speed rather well as it turns out and that's why the
85th percentile method of setting a speed limit works over and over and
over again for decades.

> In Europe, not everyone owns a car... it is much more of a luxury to them
> than it is to us...

Dated view.

> additionally, vehicle maintenance is much more of an issue in Europe.

Heaven forbid people keep their vehicles in decent shape.

> I am honestly trying to rationalize your position... but you haven't offered
> an alternative... you haven't demonstrated a benefit...

I have. I'm the one here who has presented data, references, etc. You
choose to ignore it. Again, here's a book to read:
http://www.amazon.com/American-Autob.../dp/0966913604

Study after study shows that setting speed limits at the 85th percentile
works. Here's a recent one:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2941.asp

> Many years ago, I met an old "finishing" carpenter.... older than dirt, this
> guy owned no power tools.... everything he did was by hand.... He would tell
> us that he made his mistakes 'slowly'... that way he could stop them before
> they happened.... With power tools, his mistakes happened far too fast... by
> the time he realize the mistake was happening, it was over and done...

That's nice. Maybe we should all go bicycle speeds? BTW, how do you
treat bicyclists you catch up to? You change lanes? Wait behind them
patiently?

> You aren't trying to justify safety.. you are trying to justify your desire
> to go faster than necessary.... his is why God built race tracks....
> whoops... what was that about driveshaft loops and safety and all that other
> useless crap????

Sigh here you go again. In absence of any argument you decide once again
to attack me personally. I'm the slow one on the road. I'm the guy
drivers like you end up tailgating because I'm not doing 5-15
over like practically everyone else. I just want to go the speed of
traffic legally. I want speed limits set to the engineering proven 85th
percentile so that I don't have to choose between safety and legality.

http://blog.motorists.org/wp-content...eed-limits.jpg

I'm a bit tired of having to try and balance the risk of a ticket vs.
the risk of a collision because a bunch of go slow religion types
empower the government's desire for revenue.

Something happened to me the other night. Mercedes driver passes me but
does so with lots of room. The cop chasing him gets a little close.

Here, you can see the video:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24179772@N05/4096360873/

Although the part of the cop getting close is off camera. but you can
see me reacting to give him more space. Makes me feel nice and safe that
cops put me at risk to fine someone who didn't even bother me.

> I'm not the guy with tetra ethyl lead in my e-mail address....

What's a poisonous fuel additive have to do with speed? You're reaching.
It's a bit of a self deprecating humor, but I don't expect you have the
intelligence to get the joke. If you have such a bad view of anything
remotely connected to an image of speed, maybe you should consider an
old pinto instead of a mustang.





>
> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2009-11-11, Jim Warman > wrote:
>>> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and
>>> attrition
>>> will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....
>>
>> I see you're totally incapable of rational discussion.
>>
>> Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn
>> something.
>>
>>
>
>

So... just what is this "85th percentile"?

is this the magic number for removing the human factor?

"Brent" > wrote in message
...
> On 2009-11-11, Jim Warman > wrote:
>> This isn't Germany... we do not have any European
>> attitudes/background/upbringing...
>
> Us stupid americans can't handle it? Is that what you're trying to say?
>
>> Most of all, automobile ownership per capita is highest in north
>> America....
>> Here, almost everyone owns a vehicle... often, it is in less than ideal
>> condition....
>
> And you think that if the speed limit were set properly those people who
> own those POS cars would start doing 90mph because they are stupid
> americans? Setting everything to the lowest common demonator as has
> been done in the USA is clearly a failure. Ever growing disrespect for
> all rules of the road, crushing congestion, rudeness, frustration,
> danger, abuses of government power, and so on. For what? A stupid and
> pointless attempt to make people drive as slow as few think they should.
> It's failed.
>
> People choose their speed rather well as it turns out and that's why the
> 85th percentile method of setting a speed limit works over and over and
> over again for decades.
>
>> In Europe, not everyone owns a car... it is much more of a luxury to them
>> than it is to us...
>
> Dated view.
>
>> additionally, vehicle maintenance is much more of an issue in Europe.
>
> Heaven forbid people keep their vehicles in decent shape.
>
>> I am honestly trying to rationalize your position... but you haven't
>> offered
>> an alternative... you haven't demonstrated a benefit...
>
> I have. I'm the one here who has presented data, references, etc. You
> choose to ignore it. Again, here's a book to read:
> http://www.amazon.com/American-Autob.../dp/0966913604
>
> Study after study shows that setting speed limits at the 85th percentile
> works. Here's a recent one:
> http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2941.asp
>
>> Many years ago, I met an old "finishing" carpenter.... older than dirt,
>> this
>> guy owned no power tools.... everything he did was by hand.... He would
>> tell
>> us that he made his mistakes 'slowly'... that way he could stop them
>> before
>> they happened.... With power tools, his mistakes happened far too fast...
>> by
>> the time he realize the mistake was happening, it was over and done...
>
> That's nice. Maybe we should all go bicycle speeds? BTW, how do you
> treat bicyclists you catch up to? You change lanes? Wait behind them
> patiently?
>
>> You aren't trying to justify safety.. you are trying to justify your
>> desire
>> to go faster than necessary.... his is why God built race tracks....
>> whoops... what was that about driveshaft loops and safety and all that
>> other
>> useless crap????
>
> Sigh here you go again. In absence of any argument you decide once again
> to attack me personally. I'm the slow one on the road. I'm the guy
> drivers like you end up tailgating because I'm not doing 5-15
> over like practically everyone else. I just want to go the speed of
> traffic legally. I want speed limits set to the engineering proven 85th
> percentile so that I don't have to choose between safety and legality.
>
> http://blog.motorists.org/wp-content...eed-limits.jpg
>
> I'm a bit tired of having to try and balance the risk of a ticket vs.
> the risk of a collision because a bunch of go slow religion types
> empower the government's desire for revenue.
>
> Something happened to me the other night. Mercedes driver passes me but
> does so with lots of room. The cop chasing him gets a little close.
>
> Here, you can see the video:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24179772@N05/4096360873/
>
> Although the part of the cop getting close is off camera. but you can
> see me reacting to give him more space. Makes me feel nice and safe that
> cops put me at risk to fine someone who didn't even bother me.
>
>> I'm not the guy with tetra ethyl lead in my e-mail address....
>
> What's a poisonous fuel additive have to do with speed? You're reaching.
> It's a bit of a self deprecating humor, but I don't expect you have the
> intelligence to get the joke. If you have such a bad view of anything
> remotely connected to an image of speed, maybe you should consider an
> old pinto instead of a mustang.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> "Brent" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 2009-11-11, Jim Warman > wrote:
>>>> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and
>>>> attrition
>>>> will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....
>>>
>>> I see you're totally incapable of rational discussion.
>>>
>>> Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn
>>> something.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

On 2009-11-12, Jim Warman > wrote:
> So... just what is this "85th percentile"?
>
> is this the magic number for removing the human factor?

I've explained it a few times in this thread alone. Here's a paper on
the topic of changing/setting speed limits:

http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html

TXDOT seems to have a decent layman's description of the 85th percentile
method:
http://onlinemanuals.txdot.gov/txdot...tile_speed.htm



> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2009-11-11, Jim Warman > wrote:
>>> This isn't Germany... we do not have any European
>>> attitudes/background/upbringing...
>>
>> Us stupid americans can't handle it? Is that what you're trying to say?
>>
>>> Most of all, automobile ownership per capita is highest in north
>>> America....
>>> Here, almost everyone owns a vehicle... often, it is in less than ideal
>>> condition....
>>
>> And you think that if the speed limit were set properly those people who
>> own those POS cars would start doing 90mph because they are stupid
>> americans? Setting everything to the lowest common demonator as has
>> been done in the USA is clearly a failure. Ever growing disrespect for
>> all rules of the road, crushing congestion, rudeness, frustration,
>> danger, abuses of government power, and so on. For what? A stupid and
>> pointless attempt to make people drive as slow as few think they should.
>> It's failed.
>>
>> People choose their speed rather well as it turns out and that's why the
>> 85th percentile method of setting a speed limit works over and over and
>> over again for decades.
>>
>>> In Europe, not everyone owns a car... it is much more of a luxury to them
>>> than it is to us...
>>
>> Dated view.
>>
>>> additionally, vehicle maintenance is much more of an issue in Europe.
>>
>> Heaven forbid people keep their vehicles in decent shape.
>>
>>> I am honestly trying to rationalize your position... but you haven't
>>> offered
>>> an alternative... you haven't demonstrated a benefit...
>>
>> I have. I'm the one here who has presented data, references, etc. You
>> choose to ignore it. Again, here's a book to read:
>> http://www.amazon.com/American-Autob.../dp/0966913604
>>
>> Study after study shows that setting speed limits at the 85th percentile
>> works. Here's a recent one:
>> http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/29/2941.asp
>>
>>> Many years ago, I met an old "finishing" carpenter.... older than dirt,
>>> this
>>> guy owned no power tools.... everything he did was by hand.... He would
>>> tell
>>> us that he made his mistakes 'slowly'... that way he could stop them
>>> before
>>> they happened.... With power tools, his mistakes happened far too fast...
>>> by
>>> the time he realize the mistake was happening, it was over and done...
>>
>> That's nice. Maybe we should all go bicycle speeds? BTW, how do you
>> treat bicyclists you catch up to? You change lanes? Wait behind them
>> patiently?
>>
>>> You aren't trying to justify safety.. you are trying to justify your
>>> desire
>>> to go faster than necessary.... his is why God built race tracks....
>>> whoops... what was that about driveshaft loops and safety and all that
>>> other
>>> useless crap????
>>
>> Sigh here you go again. In absence of any argument you decide once again
>> to attack me personally. I'm the slow one on the road. I'm the guy
>> drivers like you end up tailgating because I'm not doing 5-15
>> over like practically everyone else. I just want to go the speed of
>> traffic legally. I want speed limits set to the engineering proven 85th
>> percentile so that I don't have to choose between safety and legality.
>>
>> http://blog.motorists.org/wp-content...eed-limits.jpg
>>
>> I'm a bit tired of having to try and balance the risk of a ticket vs.
>> the risk of a collision because a bunch of go slow religion types
>> empower the government's desire for revenue.
>>
>> Something happened to me the other night. Mercedes driver passes me but
>> does so with lots of room. The cop chasing him gets a little close.
>>
>> Here, you can see the video:
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/24179772@N05/4096360873/
>>
>> Although the part of the cop getting close is off camera. but you can
>> see me reacting to give him more space. Makes me feel nice and safe that
>> cops put me at risk to fine someone who didn't even bother me.
>>
>>> I'm not the guy with tetra ethyl lead in my e-mail address....
>>
>> What's a poisonous fuel additive have to do with speed? You're reaching.
>> It's a bit of a self deprecating humor, but I don't expect you have the
>> intelligence to get the joke. If you have such a bad view of anything
>> remotely connected to an image of speed, maybe you should consider an
>> old pinto instead of a mustang.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> "Brent" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 2009-11-11, Jim Warman > wrote:
>>>>> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and
>>>>> attrition
>>>>> will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....
>>>>
>>>> I see you're totally incapable of rational discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Take a trip to Germany some time. Expand your horizons. Learn
>>>> something.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Jim Warman wrote:
> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and attrition
> will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....
>
> Unfortunately, the bad drivers are going to take some good drivers with
> them - right?
>
> But you don't need to worry because there's no way it can happen to you....
>
> I have deleted all other text... because, by the time you get here, you
> should already know what all the other text is about...
>
> Top posting is "lazy".... that's a bit of a stretch, ain't it?
>
>
>


Not lazy since even a POS like OE will start below the quoted text
automatically, it's more "wrong, rude and inconsiderate" than anything
else. It's also very inconvenient if you have to follow a long thread.

"WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Warman wrote:
>> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and
>> attrition will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....
>>
>> Unfortunately, the bad drivers are going to take some good drivers with
>> them - right?
>>
>> But you don't need to worry because there's no way it can happen to
>> you....
>>
>> I have deleted all other text... because, by the time you get here, you
>> should already know what all the other text is about...
>>
>> Top posting is "lazy".... that's a bit of a stretch, ain't it?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Not lazy since even a POS like OE will start below the quoted text
> automatically, it's more "wrong, rude and inconsiderate" than anything
> else. It's also very inconvenient if you have to follow a long thread.
Nothing wrong with OE for text based newsgroups. That is just MS bashing. I
do use Agent for binary groups as OE is crap for that purpose. I would
prefer top posting when some ass quotes a 10k line message then says some
two word response at the bottom. Snipping is fundamental!

RM v2.0 wrote:
> "WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jim Warman wrote:
>>> OK.. I see where I was mistaken.... let's all drive real fast and
>>> attrition will decide who the good drivers are or aren't....
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, the bad drivers are going to take some good drivers with
>>> them - right?
>>>
>>> But you don't need to worry because there's no way it can happen to
>>> you....
>>>
>>> I have deleted all other text... because, by the time you get here, you
>>> should already know what all the other text is about...
>>>
>>> Top posting is "lazy".... that's a bit of a stretch, ain't it?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Not lazy since even a POS like OE will start below the quoted text
>> automatically, it's more "wrong, rude and inconsiderate" than anything
>> else. It's also very inconvenient if you have to follow a long thread.
> Nothing wrong with OE for text based newsgroups. That is just MS bashing. I
> do use Agent for binary groups as OE is crap for that purpose. I would
> prefer top posting when some ass quotes a 10k line message then says some
> two word response at the bottom. Snipping is fundamental!
>
>


Someone should not be making quotes that big. The server I use will
not allow it, and OE is probably the biggest POS I can think of at the
moment...

>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not lazy since even a POS like OE will start below the quoted text
>>> automatically, it's more "wrong, rude and inconsiderate" than anything
>>> else. It's also very inconvenient if you have to follow a long thread.
>> Nothing wrong with OE for text based newsgroups. That is just MS bashing.
>> I do use Agent for binary groups as OE is crap for that purpose. I would
>> prefer top posting when some ass quotes a 10k line message then says some
>> two word response at the bottom. Snipping is fundamental!
>
>
> Someone should not be making quotes that big. The server I use will not
> allow it, and OE is probably the biggest POS I can think of at the
> moment...

A lot of people cant seem to respond without quoting the entire message.
Just for conversation, why do you dislike OE? I have used it on dozens of
computers and nary a single issue on text based messages. I read a lot of
complaints about OE but never any actual issues, just a lot of "its crap!"
posts.