Back To N2003

David G Fisher wrote:

> After hearing a few of the complaints here at ras and RSC, I've decided to
> dump rFactor and go back to N2003/N2002/N4.
>
> A sim with the same real car on the same two real RC tracks is all anyone
> should need......year......after year.....after year......

Funny, I've just sold both of my N2003 copies (for $40 each, thank you
Ebay!)

rFactor offers one thing that all the papy games couldn't, believable
suspension physics. All the N2003 mods have felt underdamped, yet
jouncy. The most recent sportscar mod only accentuated the shortcomings
in the Papy code. Real GTP cars don't bounce down the road like a
kangaroo on speed. With N2003, you can have a car that handles
precicely, or you can have traction over the bumps. You cannot have
both. People drive around with 1/1 rear dampers and sacked suspension
because anything harder simply causes the tires to act as huge undamped
springs. Boing...boing...boing. No thanks.

rFactor is much more raw/buggy than I anticipated, but I'm going to
stick it out for a while. Racing the OW trainers is great fun, akin to
F2/3 races in GPL. It really makes you think about lines, precise brake
points, etc. Miss an apex by two feet, and the person behind you WILL
pass you on the following straight. FWIW, I like that.

-Greg

"Greg" wrote...
>> <snip>
> <snip>
> The most recent sportscar mod only accentuated the shortcomings
> in the Papy code.

Read: the impossibility to change the hard-coded, stock car tyre model.

> Real GTP cars don't bounce down the road like a kangaroo on
> speed. With N2003, you can have a car that handles precicely,
> or you can have traction over the bumps. You cannot have both.
> People drive around with 1/1 rear dampers and sacked
> suspension because anything harder simply causes the tires to act
> as huge undamped springs. Boing...boing...boing. No thanks.

Finally someone talks straight about the GTP mod: same basic problem as TA
mod. Thank you for saving me time and effort.

Jan.
=---

Jan Verschueren wrote:
> Read: the impossibility to change the hard-coded, stock car tyre model.

Except that Team Redline did exactly that.

Previous poster wrote:
> > People drive around with 1/1 rear dampers and sacked
> > suspension because anything harder simply causes the tires to act
> > as huge undamped springs. Boing...boing...boing. No thanks.

1. you can't run 1/1 dampers in GTP.
2. in CUP/CTS/GNS/PTA none of the guys who are fast do that on road
courses.
3. the ideal suspension setup in ISI sims is fully soft springs, fully
soft bump dampers, and fully stiff rebound dampers. While this is the
way to achieve TOP SPEED at a place like Le Mans in N2003, it's not
ideal for the the handling of the car.

On 5 Sep 2005 20:58:35 -0700, "jason moyer" > wrote:

>Dave Henrie wrote:
>
>> Jason did you ever look into the Group C mod for F1c?
>
>Yeah. The tracks and cars are really well modelled, but I'm not
>impressed with the driving. It's a really awesome 3-d car museum
>tho.

Yeah, the handling is world's different in GTP (i.e. much more
controllable, esp. at low speeds, tho GTP 1.0 also had low
speed handling issues).

"jason moyer" wrote...
>
> Except that Team Redline did exactly that.

I was led to believe the properties of the tyres (grip, slipangle curve,
etc. ...) can indeed be changed, but not the way it is modelled, i.e. how it
interacts with the chassis and the road. I.o.w. I was told one could feed in
data for any tyre, but it would still act like a stock car tyre in the game.

If that's not correct, I'll put the mod back on my "to do list".

Jan.
=---

> After hearing a few of the complaints here at ras and RSC, I've decided to dump rFactor and go back to N2003/N2002/N4.

> A sim with the same real car on the same two real RC tracks is all anyone should need......year......after
> year.....after year......

And online its the same two track, Daytona and Talladega (unless you
count Daytona Night as a separate track). These tracks are the most
popular online, because it takes the least skill (no low line rule,
pitting and getting into a draft right after pitting determines
who wins, pole sitter rarely wins), or team play.

Jan Verschueren wrote:

> I was led to believe the properties of the tyres (grip, slipangle curve,
> etc. ...) can indeed be changed, but not the way it is modelled, i.e. how it
> interacts with the chassis and the road.

Don't the properties of the tires define the way it interacts with the
chassis and the road?

"jason moyer" wrote...
> Don't the properties of the tires define the way it interacts
> with the chassis and the road?

It would if the model in the game was generic, which I'm not sure it is.

Jan.
=---

Jan Verschueren wrote:

> It would if the model in the game was generic, which I'm not sure it is.

I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion, as GTP is the only
thing available for N2003 that doesn't use the stock car tire model.

"jason moyer" wrote...
>> <snip>
> I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion, as GTP is the
> only thing available for N2003 that doesn't use the stock car tire
> model.

The simulators used in racing are tyre/series-specific and those aren't even
real time....

Jan.
=---