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Saw an intelligent bicyclist today



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 27th 08, 08:56 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
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Posts: 191
Default Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

On Feb 27, 11:21 am, N8N > wrote:
> On Feb 27, 10:58 am, wrote:
>
> > If you have trouble seeing ordinary (non-orange) cyclists or
> > pedestrians in plenty of time, you're not driving responsibly. Try
> > slowing down and paying more attention.

>
> Yes, all of the cyclists in my area are responsible and never, ever do
> stuff like riding after dark without lights and wearing dark and/or
> non-reflective clothing. (snort)


Cyclists should use lights and reflectors at night. Those laws should
be respected.
But clothing that suits _your_ fancy is not a legal requirement, and
should not be.

> If it didn't seem like the vast majority of cyclists that I see had
> death wishes ... you might have a point, but my general impression
> of them is that they are serious hazards to themselves and others, and
> I wish that police would take more notice of this and start enforcing
> the rules of the road.


I wish police would enforce _all_ rules of the road, including against
motorists who speed through neighborhoods, roll stop signs, run red
lights, fail to yield to pedestrians, and all the rest. Yes, they
should ticket cyclists - but it's a far lower priority for good
reason.

For example, regarding stop signs: I live across the street from
one. Fewer than half the drivers bother to stop. The majority roll
right through. The potential harm from a motorist doing that is
hundreds of times worse than that from a cyclist.

Regarding "serious hazards to themselves and others," feel free to
post documentation of the terrible carnage caused by bicyclists. We
know there are roughly 40,000 people killed by motorists each year in
America. How many are killed by bicyclists? Post the number, please.

How many cyclists kill themselves by their mistakes? Only about 700
American cyclists die per year, total. That's a tiny number compared
to most other causes of death. The per-hour risk is also low. And at
least half those fatalities are caused by motorist mistakes, not
cyclist mistakes.

- Frank Krygowski
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  #12  
Old February 27th 08, 09:15 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
N8N
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Posts: 3,477
Default Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

On Feb 27, 2:56*pm, wrote:
> On Feb 27, 11:21 am, N8N > wrote:
>
> > On Feb 27, 10:58 am, wrote:

>
> > > If you have trouble seeing ordinary (non-orange) cyclists or
> > > pedestrians in plenty of time, you're not driving responsibly. *Try
> > > slowing down and paying more attention.

>
> > Yes, all of the cyclists in my area are responsible and never, ever do
> > stuff like riding after dark without lights and wearing dark and/or
> > non-reflective clothing. *(snort)

>
> Cyclists should use lights and reflectors at night. *Those laws should
> be respected.


Agreed.

> But clothing that suits _your_ fancy is not a legal requirement, and
> should not be.


Being visible is not "my fancy." If you have no lights, no
reflectors, and are wearing jeans and a dark shirt, I have no sympathy
for anything that might happen to you.

> > If it didn't seem like the vast majority of cyclists that I see had
> > death wishes ... you might have a point, but my general impression
> > of them is that they are serious hazards to themselves and others, and
> > I wish that police would take more notice of this and start enforcing
> > the rules of the road.

>
> I wish police would enforce _all_ rules of the road, including against
> motorists who speed through neighborhoods, roll stop signs, run red
> lights, fail to yield to pedestrians, and all the rest. *Yes, they
> should ticket cyclists - but it's a far lower priority for good
> reason.


Why? If I hit another car because the driver did something illegal,
or hit a cyclist because he did something illegal, I still hit
something. I'm still inconvenienced, and I still have to deal with a
lot of BS. Since my observations are that 100% of cyclists flagrantly
violate the rules of the road, that seems like a real problem to me.

> For example, regarding stop signs: *I live across the street from
> one. *Fewer than half the drivers bother to stop. The majority roll
> right through. The potential harm from a motorist doing that is
> hundreds of times worse than that from a cyclist.


100% of cyclists blatantly ignore stop signs.

> Regarding "serious hazards to themselves and others," feel free to
> post documentation of the terrible carnage caused by bicyclists. *We
> know there are roughly 40,000 people killed by motorists each year in
> America. *How many are killed by bicyclists? *Post the number, please.


Mostly cyclists kill themselves. But my car will still be damaged.

> How many cyclists kill themselves by their mistakes? *Only about 700
> American cyclists die per year, total. *That's a tiny number compared
> to most other causes of death. *The per-hour risk is also low. *And at
> least half those fatalities are caused by motorist mistakes, not
> cyclist mistakes.


I don't believe that at all, as as I've stated, bicyclists seem to
think themselves completely exempt from the rules of the road and
quite a few rules of common sense, as well.

I'm not anti-cyclist as a principle; I actually enjoy riding. It is
observation of the behavior of cyclists that has shaped my opinions so
that I probably appear to be anti-cyclist. Basically, I just don't
like the particular cyclists that I have to interact with on the
roads.

nate
  #13  
Old February 27th 08, 09:25 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
Larry Farrell
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Posts: 13
Default Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

N8N wrote:
[snip]
>
> Why? If I hit another car because the driver did something illegal,
> or hit a cyclist because he did something illegal, I still hit
> something. I'm still inconvenienced, and I still have to deal with a
> lot of BS. Since my observations are that 100% of cyclists flagrantly
> violate the rules of the road, that seems like a real problem to me.
>

[snip]
>
> 100% of cyclists blatantly ignore stop signs.
>


Both of your 100%s are 100% BS.

--
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  #14  
Old February 27th 08, 09:31 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
N8N
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Posts: 3,477
Default Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

On Feb 27, 3:25*pm, Larry Farrell > wrote:
> N8N wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>
>
> > Why? *If I hit another car because the driver did something illegal,
> > or hit a cyclist because he did something illegal, I still hit
> > something. *I'm still inconvenienced, and I still have to deal with a
> > lot of BS. *Since my observations are that 100% of cyclists flagrantly
> > violate the rules of the road, that seems like a real problem to me.

>
> [snip]
>
> > 100% of cyclists blatantly ignore stop signs.

>
> Both of your 100%s are 100% BS.


Feel free to ride with me someday and prove me wrong. You won't.
You'll be shocked at what you see. I stand by my statement. 100% of
cyclists that I encounter flagrantly violate the rules of the road.
Most common infraction is blowing through stop signs at speed. It
sounds incredible, but it is true - ALL cyclists that I encounter ride
like they want to be hit. There's a fair number of cyclists around
where I live, too - my commute to/from work takes me across a bike
trail, so there's a lot of cyclists that I assume are getting on/off
the bike trail and riding on the same roads on which I'm driving.

nate
  #15  
Old February 27th 08, 09:40 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
Larry Farrell
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Posts: 13
Default Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

N8N wrote:
> On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, Larry Farrell > wrote:
>> N8N wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>
>>
>>> Why? If I hit another car because the driver did something illegal,
>>> or hit a cyclist because he did something illegal, I still hit
>>> something. I'm still inconvenienced, and I still have to deal with a
>>> lot of BS. Since my observations are that 100% of cyclists flagrantly
>>> violate the rules of the road, that seems like a real problem to me.

>> [snip]
>>
>>> 100% of cyclists blatantly ignore stop signs.

>> Both of your 100%s are 100% BS.

>
> Feel free to ride with me someday and prove me wrong. You won't.
> You'll be shocked at what you see. I stand by my statement. 100% of
> cyclists that I encounter flagrantly violate the rules of the road.
> Most common infraction is blowing through stop signs at speed. It
> sounds incredible, but it is true - ALL cyclists that I encounter ride
> like they want to be hit. There's a fair number of cyclists around
> where I live, too - my commute to/from work takes me across a bike
> trail, so there's a lot of cyclists that I assume are getting on/off
> the bike trail and riding on the same roads on which I'm driving.
>
> nate


Your original statements were that 100% of bicyclists were doing
illegal things, not that 100% of the bicyclists you observed were
doing so. Therefore, your original statements were blatantly wrong.
I stand by *my* statement.

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  #17  
Old February 27th 08, 09:56 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
Brent P[_1_]
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Posts: 8,639
Default Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

In article >, N8N wrote:

> 100% of cyclists blatantly ignore stop signs.


I don't. I take the lane and stop at them. For some reason motorists
don't like this very much. Although it's amusing when they try to pass
me before the stop sign (to cut me off and slam on the brakes I guess)
and end up stuck in the oncoming lane at the stop sign.



  #18  
Old February 27th 08, 09:59 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
N8N
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Posts: 3,477
Default Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

On Feb 27, 3:40*pm, Larry Farrell > wrote:
> N8N wrote:
> > On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, Larry Farrell > wrote:
> >> N8N wrote:

>
> >> [snip]

>
> >>> Why? *If I hit another car because the driver did something illegal,
> >>> or hit a cyclist because he did something illegal, I still hit
> >>> something. *I'm still inconvenienced, and I still have to deal with a
> >>> lot of BS. *Since my observations are that 100% of cyclists flagrantly
> >>> violate the rules of the road, that seems like a real problem to me.
> >> [snip]

>
> >>> 100% of cyclists blatantly ignore stop signs.
> >> Both of your 100%s are 100% BS.

>
> > Feel free to ride with me someday and prove me wrong. *You won't.
> > You'll be shocked at what you see. *I stand by my statement. *100% of
> > cyclists that I encounter flagrantly violate the rules of the road.
> > Most common infraction is blowing through stop signs at speed. *It
> > sounds incredible, but it is true - ALL cyclists that I encounter ride
> > like they want to be hit. *There's a fair number of cyclists around
> > where I live, too - my commute to/from work takes me across a bike
> > trail, so there's a lot of cyclists that I assume are getting on/off
> > the bike trail and riding on the same roads on which I'm driving.

>
> > nate

>
> Your original statements were that 100% of bicyclists were doing
> illegal things, not that 100% of the bicyclists you observed were
> doing so. *Therefore, your original statements were blatantly wrong.
> I stand by *my* statement.


So the ones I don't see are perfectly law-abiding? Somehow I doubt
that.

nate
  #19  
Old February 27th 08, 10:25 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
Leo Lichtman
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Posts: 23
Default !n Saw an intelligent bicyclist today


> wrote: (clip) as long as the cyclist is
> legal, he has no obligation to dress funny so motorists can exert less
> care. (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Frank, it looked to me like you were chewing out bad drivers, blaming them
for driving habits that make cyclists less safe. My response did not
suggest that cyclists have an obligation to "dress funny." First, the bad
drivers you hold responsible--and they are certainly out there--are not
affected appreciably by what you say here. Blaming them and telling them to
drive better has virtually no effect. What does have an effect is how I
control my own behavior. I say, if I can make myself live longer by
"dressing funny," it's a personal choice, and I choose it. I'm 80 years old
and I place great value on whatever years I have left.


  #20  
Old February 27th 08, 11:29 PM posted to rec.autos.driving,rec.bicycles.misc
Stephen Harding
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Posts: 54
Default Saw an intelligent bicyclist today

N8N wrote:

> Why? If I hit another car because the driver did something illegal,
> or hit a cyclist because he did something illegal, I still hit
> something. I'm still inconvenienced, and I still have to deal with a
> lot of BS. Since my observations are that 100% of cyclists flagrantly
> violate the rules of the road, that seems like a real problem to me.


[...]

> 100% of cyclists blatantly ignore stop signs.


Where on earth do you live?

How much viewing time are we talking about with this
observation? How many bicyclists over what period of time?

Assuming the sample size of your observations are sufficiently
large, I would have to predict a significant number of the
700-800 American bicyclists that die each year must meet their
end in your town, with riding behavior as you claim (assuming
you are in the US)!


SMH
 




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