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#12
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards,leotard78sp whines again..
In sci.environment, Eeyore
> wrote on Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:15:10 +0000 >: > > > Kurt Lochner wrote: > >> AKA sniveled ineptly: >> > >> > So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an >> > average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership >> > and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, >> > I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. > > I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a > staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car that > could happily tootle along at 80–90mph, nip past obstructive drivers in > old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles on a gallon of > diesel. > http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 Is that at 90 mph? Somehow, I doubt it. Best I can do is 200 mpg in a Mini Cooper S form factor at 67 mph (30 m/s) using the Drag Equation, and that's not taking rolling friction into consideration. At 45 m/s (100.7 mph) one gets 88.9 mpg, as drag is proportional to the square of the speed. The stats I've seen for hybrids such as the Prius suggest that hybrids get worse mileage on the highway than in the city -- a testament to the inefficiencies of the reciprocating piston internal combustion engine at low RPMs. > > OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! > > Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an irrational > fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine design is making even > SPORTY diesels possible. They have exceptional torque which most drivers > like too. The US "fear" is not all that irrational, given the diesel's history of sounding like a bad truck, smelling like the inside of an oil can, and looking like something coming out of a fireplace. Of course that's in the same boat as brussel sprouts, which AIUI tasted bad because of their canning decades ago; both have been since resolved, using more efficient designs. However, Americans, myself included, have a fairly long memory. It will probably take a little while to purge these prejudices out of our system. I may never eat brussel sprouts. I might consider a diesel, though. :-) > > Graham > -- #191, /dev/signatu Not a text file -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#13
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards,leotard78sp whines again..
In sci.environment, Eeyore
> wrote on Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:19:18 +0000 >: > > > Kurt Lochner wrote: > >> AKA sniveled ineptly: >> > >> >The new gas mileage standards mandated >> >by the recently passed energy legislation >> >defy the laws of physics.. >> >> leotard, you don't know any physics to speak of.. > > The laws of physics certainly do tend to say that expecting a 7 litre > V-8 (or even say a more humble 4 litre) to do 35 mpg is wishful thinking > ! But who actually NEEDS one ? > > Graham > Who needs a car to begin with? :-) But given that, I'd be surprised if one can do 35 mpg in an SUV form factor, even with the most efficient of engines. If one assumes stoplights every 500 m and a driving speed of 15 m/s, a 2-tonne car needs to spend 225 kJ just getting up to speed, and then waste that 225 kJ stopping (unless one uses regenerative braking techniques), translating into 450 J/m or 724204.8 J/mile or 167 mpg (given gasoline's energy density of about 121 MJ/gallon) -- and that's without air drag, rotational friction, and Carnot inefficiencies. The solution, of course, is to shrink the car and use lighter materials. Ideally, every family of 2 kids under driving age (around 16-18 years) would have three cars: - his car, which would be a tiny 1-seater with very high fuel efficiency, optimized for commuting, and just big enough to hold a briefcase and a cup of coffee.[*] - her car, which would be a 1 to 3-seater with not quite as high fuel efficiency but which can carry a week's worth of groceries; it can also be used to pick up and drop off kids from various functions, although ideally the kids would use bicycles instead or just walk, as both are healthier, if less safe in some neighborhoods, depending on the age of said kids (obviously babies crawling to the day care center or to Grandma gets ridiculous, but there's a line somewhere). - the family car, which would be a 4-seater primarily intended for long trips and family outings, and it sits in the garage most days. (Switch roles as appropriate. There's a few issues if his employment involves hauling [long haul truckers] and/or building construction work. Not sure how to handle a visit by his folks, her mother in law or by either Grandma -- or all of the above simultaneously during the winter holiday season. Hopefully they have cars of their own.) It is possible to change this mix somewhat, or add additional components such as mass transit (trains, vanpools, light rail, commuter buses). [*] This is suggested with humorous effect by _The Incredibles_, among many other venues. One would, of course, want a little more durability so that it can survive being gripped or slammed, of course. -- #191, Linux. Because Windows' Blue Screen Of Death is just way too frightening to novice users. -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#14
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..
In News ,, Eeyore at
, typed this: > Kurt Lochner wrote: > >> AKA sniveled ineptly: >>> >>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an >>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership >>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, >>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. > > I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a > staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car that > could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive drivers > in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles on a > gallon of diesel. > http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 > > OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! > > Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an > irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine design > is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have exceptional torque > which most drivers like too. > > Graham How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit? -- "A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have." Thomas Jefferson |
#15
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Coping With The New CAFE Standards, leotard78sp whines again..
In article >,
Eeyore > wrote: > Kurt Lochner wrote: > > > AKA sniveled ineptly: > > > > > >The new gas mileage standards mandated > > >by the recently passed energy legislation > > >defy the laws of physics.. > > > > leotard, you don't know any physics to speak of.. > > The laws of physics certainly do tend to say that expecting a 7 litre > V-8 (or even say a more humble 4 litre) to do 35 mpg is wishful thinking > ! But who actually NEEDS one ? Strange how Toyota's been doing it for around ten years and their Prius is probably one of the more popular models on the roads today. |
#16
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..
In article >,
Eeyore > wrote: > Kurt Lochner wrote: > > > AKA sniveled ineptly: > > > > > > So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an > > > average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership > > > and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, > > > I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. > > I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a > staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car that > could happily tootle along at 80–90mph, nip past obstructive drivers in > old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles on a gallon of > diesel. > http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 > > OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! > > Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an irrational > fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine design is making even > SPORTY diesels possible. They have exceptional torque which most drivers > like too. In my area, finding a gas station where diesel is sold is a challenge. I live in South Jersey. I was once driving home on the Atlantic City Parkway two or three years ago. I stopped to get gas at one of the road side places and a guy in front of me pulls up in a fancy Mercedes and the gas station attendant had to send him away because he needed diesel and that station didn't sell any. Hopefully, he had enough gas in his tank to find a station where diesel is sold. |
#17
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards,leotard78spwhines again..
The Ghost In The Machine wrote: > Eeyore wrote > > Kurt Lochner wrote: > >> AKA sniveled ineptly: > >> > > >> > So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an > >> > average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership > >> > and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, > >> > I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. > > > > I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a > > staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car that > > could happily tootle along at 80–90mph, nip past obstructive drivers in > > old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles on a gallon of > > diesel. > > http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 > > Is that at 90 mph? Don't be silly. NO mpg figures quoted are at 90 mph. Graham |
#18
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..
Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > Eeyore at typed this: > > Kurt Lochner wrote: > >> AKA sniveled ineptly: > >>> > >>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an > >>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership > >>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, > >>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. > > > > I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a > > staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car that > > could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive drivers > > in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles on a > > gallon of diesel. > > http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 > > > > OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! > > > > Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an > > irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine design > > is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have exceptional torque > > which most drivers like too. > > How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit? I have NO idea. How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ? How much of the year do you have those temps ? I imagine ANY car will need pre-warming to operate usefully. Graham |
#19
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..
Shawn Hirn wrote: > Eeyore wrote: > > Kurt Lochner wrote: > > > AKA sniveled ineptly: > > > > > > > > So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an > > > > average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership > > > > and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, > > > > I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. > > > > I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a > > staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car that > > could happily tootle along at 80–90mph, nip past obstructive drivers in > > old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles on a gallon of > > diesel. > > http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 > > > > OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! > > > > Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an irrational > > fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine design is making even > > SPORTY diesels possible. They have exceptional torque which most drivers > > like too. > > In my area, finding a gas station where diesel is sold is a challenge. In the UK, typically all pumps deliver diesel. Our pumps are normally 'multi-fuel' types. You select which one you want by pressing a button or picking up the appropriate hose. This is simple stuff and has been do-able for decades. Indeed it HAS been done for decades in Europe and elsewhere. In this picture you can see 2 green hoses for example. One will be 95 octane unleaded and the other 98 octane. Diesel comes down a black hose. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7021021.stm In some European countries diesel cars represent the majority of new car sales. Their economy is undeniable. Their performance is daily improving. Graham |
#20
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Coping With The New CAFE Standards, leotard78sp whines again..
Shawn Hirn wrote: > Eeyore wrote: > > Kurt Lochner wrote: > > > AKA sniveled ineptly: > > > > > > > >The new gas mileage standards mandated > > > >by the recently passed energy legislation > > > >defy the laws of physics.. > > > > > > leotard, you don't know any physics to speak of.. > > > > The laws of physics certainly do tend to say that expecting a 7 litre > > V-8 (or even say a more humble 4 litre) to do 35 mpg is wishful thinking > > ! But who actually NEEDS one ? > > Strange how Toyota's been doing it for around ten years and their Prius > is probably one of the more popular models on the roads today. What Toyota has a 7 litre V-8 ? Simple really isn't it ? Grahamm |
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