More pictures, less politics - 194x GMC & International 2 1-2 Ton Deuce- &-A-Half or 6 X 6 General Purpose Truck fv (2008 Summer Motor Fest) CKi 1.jpg 713.22 KBKB

Pictures shot during the Summer Motor Fest car show at Greenfield
Village in Dearborn, MI. There was little or no information available
on the many WWII and later military vehicles in the exhibit, so I'm
making a best guess as to the IDs. Corrections would be appreciated.


--
HP, aka Jerry

"That's all I have to say about that" - Forrest Gump

looking at the designs of these trucks, I would place them in the Korean or
Veitnam era. My 42-46 have nothing that even looks like these.

On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:34:27 -0500, HEMI-Powered wrote:

>>
>>Pictures shot during the Summer Motor Fest car show at Greenfield
>>Village in Dearborn, MI. There was little or no information available
>>on the many WWII and later military vehicles in the exhibit, so I'm
>>making a best guess as to the IDs. Corrections would be appreciated.

Doby added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

> looking at the designs of these trucks, I would place them in
> the Korean or Veitnam era. My 42-46 have nothing that even
> looks like these.

That's entirely possible, Doby. I have a couple of pictures of my
father, a WWII Marine, by his International 6x6. It's appearance
is similar to this truck but not identical. For example, his
windshield was one piece while this one is a 2-piece design. I
did a considerable amount of Googling for both GMC and
International trucks used from WWII to about Korea. As you
suggest, the designs did evolve somewhat but what confuses me yet
is that there are also minor differences between the GMC and
International designs just like there were minor differences
between Willys and Ford Jeeps, and parts of the basic truck body
also evolved somewhat during the war based on experience in the
field and the actual intended use. For example, while Marine 6x6s
had a 50 cal. machine gun on a swivel mount behind the driver,
many Army trucks of the day did not have this feature as it was
less needed for the close combat of early island invasions.

However, this truck is definitely NOT a Viet Nam era truck. I
have personal experience with the 1970-ish Deuce-and-a-half from
my own Army career. One big difference was the fenders changed
from the rounded form of WWII and Korean trucks to angular
fenders. I was very pressed for time at the Motor Fest event and
didn't take any pictures of the later truck. I did get some of a
1944 DUKW that had a placard giving the date and key features of
that amphibious vehicle.

I'd be happy to change the year and war name for these pictures
to what is more accurate, and I thank you for any specifics that
may guide me. For example, do you have any definitive web links
that can be used to date these things? I didn't save any of my
Google searches but I did notice a very wide range of body
designs between GMC and International, depending on the purpose
of the truck, and in support of your comments that the design
changed by Korea.

The Motor Fest car show is a judged event and the 300+ cars that
were there were grouped by year or period and each one had an
owner's card on the top of the I/P or taped to the windshield
with the exact model year, make and model. This is obviously very
helpful as you know when trying to ID similar looking cars or the
more obscure ones. However, the military exhibit was manned by
volunteers from various veterans groups, and were garbed in WWII-
era winter uniforms, all Army and a few Navy, no Marines. Because
the trucks, one half-track and the DUCW weren't judged, I don't
think, the owners didn't have a card anyplace I could see. I'm
always on the lookout for these, and the only car in this part of
the show with a card was a 1942 Cadillac general's staff car.

>>>Pictures shot during the Summer Motor Fest car show at
>>>Greenfield Village in Dearborn, MI. There was little or no
>>>information available on the many WWII and later military
>>>vehicles in the exhibit, so I'm making a best guess as to the
>>>IDs. Corrections would be appreciated.
>



--
HP, aka Jerry

Don't be a fop or a blooter, make only pithy comments on Usenet

I was signal corps in the Korean. Thats what some of these truck have
resemblance to. However, my search didn't find any useful Korean army photos.
(the forgotten war !) I had my military license to drive up to 2½ deuce 4x4 as
well as any lower trucks and jeeps. Our radar repair van was GM 2½ 4x4 by GM
with a 6 speed auto tranny. Jeeps were all Kaiser and manual shifts.

I normally don't post on this NG but my trucks, fire-engines, etc are posted on
alt.binaries.vehicles. There is more knowledge on trucks on that site. This
site as far as truck go, is usually pickups and customized.

I looked at my Jan 2008 Military still on computer and didn't find what I was
looking for. I'd have to get my USB 250 storage unit out and look there for
older years. I'm in so many things right now only drop in on NG's for limited
times and only download so many titles.




On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:49:21 GMT, "HEMI-Powered" > wrote:

>>Doby added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...
>>
>>> looking at the designs of these trucks, I would place them in
>>> the Korean or Veitnam era. My 42-46 have nothing that even
>>> looks like these.
>>
>>That's entirely possible, Doby. I have a couple of pictures of my
>>father, a WWII Marine, by his International 6x6. It's appearance
>>is similar to this truck but not identical. For example, his
>>windshield was one piece while this one is a 2-piece design. I
>>did a considerable amount of Googling for both GMC and
>>International trucks used from WWII to about Korea. As you
>>suggest, the designs did evolve somewhat but what confuses me yet
>>is that there are also minor differences between the GMC and
>>International designs just like there were minor differences
>>between Willys and Ford Jeeps, and parts of the basic truck body
>>also evolved somewhat during the war based on experience in the
>>field and the actual intended use. For example, while Marine 6x6s
>>had a 50 cal. machine gun on a swivel mount behind the driver,
>>many Army trucks of the day did not have this feature as it was
>>less needed for the close combat of early island invasions.
>>
>>However, this truck is definitely NOT a Viet Nam era truck. I
>>have personal experience with the 1970-ish Deuce-and-a-half from
>>my own Army career. One big difference was the fenders changed
>>from the rounded form of WWII and Korean trucks to angular
>>fenders. I was very pressed for time at the Motor Fest event and
>>didn't take any pictures of the later truck. I did get some of a
>>1944 DUKW that had a placard giving the date and key features of
>>that amphibious vehicle.
>>
>>I'd be happy to change the year and war name for these pictures
>>to what is more accurate, and I thank you for any specifics that
>>may guide me. For example, do you have any definitive web links
>>that can be used to date these things? I didn't save any of my
>>Google searches but I did notice a very wide range of body
>>designs between GMC and International, depending on the purpose
>>of the truck, and in support of your comments that the design
>>changed by Korea.
>>
>>The Motor Fest car show is a judged event and the 300+ cars that
>>were there were grouped by year or period and each one had an
>>owner's card on the top of the I/P or taped to the windshield
>>with the exact model year, make and model. This is obviously very
>>helpful as you know when trying to ID similar looking cars or the
>>more obscure ones. However, the military exhibit was manned by
>>volunteers from various veterans groups, and were garbed in WWII-
>>era winter uniforms, all Army and a few Navy, no Marines. Because
>>the trucks, one half-track and the DUCW weren't judged, I don't
>>think, the owners didn't have a card anyplace I could see. I'm
>>always on the lookout for these, and the only car in this part of
>>the show with a card was a 1942 Cadillac general's staff car.
>>
>>>>>Pictures shot during the Summer Motor Fest car show at
>>>>>Greenfield Village in Dearborn, MI. There was little or no
>>>>>information available on the many WWII and later military
>>>>>vehicles in the exhibit, so I'm making a best guess as to the
>>>>>IDs. Corrections would be appreciated.
>>>

Doby added these comments in the current discussion du jour ...

> I was signal corps in the Korean. Thats what some of these
> truck have resemblance to. However, my search didn't find any
> useful Korean army photos. (the forgotten war !) I had my
> military license to drive up to 2½ deuce 4x4 as well as any
> lower trucks and jeeps. Our radar repair van was GM 2½ 4x4
> by GM with a 6 speed auto tranny. Jeeps were all Kaiser and
> manual shifts.
>
> I normally don't post on this NG but my trucks, fire-engines,
> etc are posted on alt.binaries.vehicles. There is more
> knowledge on trucks on that site. This site as far as truck
> go, is usually pickups and customized.
>
> I looked at my Jan 2008 Military still on computer and didn't
> find what I was looking for. I'd have to get my USB 250
> storage unit out and look there for older years. I'm in so
> many things right now only drop in on NG's for limited times
> and only download so many titles.
>
You know that I strive for naming accuracy as best I can. In this
case, it didn't seem worth a super deep dive past what I've
already said. However, based on your superior knowledge and
experience in these things, I've renamed it 194x-195x as I'm just
not sure what era it actually comes from. Interestingly, the
style of 2 1/2 ton trucks I knew in 1970-72 was around for much
longer than I'd thought. I noticed some just like it in the 1955
James Stewart Movie "Strategic Air Command." So, my conclusion
based on my limited Googling and your experience is that the
variations throughout WWII and well into the Korean era makes it
fairly touch to pin down for certain, especially since I didn't
think to look at the instrument panel spec plate you pointed out
to me.

I don't usually post this type of vehicle here either, but it was
in the larger Greenfield Village car show so I thought there
might be some interest. Thanks for your help and insights on all
of this.

If you were in the Army during Korea, that makes you close to 20
years older than me, perhaps. I was somewhat older than usual
when I was drafted in 1970 because I had a deferrment through
college. Depenind on when they were enlisted or drafted, people
like my father and a number of friends from WWII, Korea, and Viet
Nam range very widely in age. For example, my father was over 30
when drafted into the Marines in July, 1943 but another Marine
pictured in Joe Rosenthal's follow-on "gung-ho" group shot of 18
Marines clustered around the just-raised 2nd flag on Mt.
Suribachi turned only 18 while on Iwo and was still 17 when the
flags were raised on February 23, 1945.

Hindsight is always 20/20 when shooting car shows and such. I
wish I'd asked some of the volunteers in WWII uniforms for more
information on the exhibit but I was in too much of a hurry.
>
> On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:49:21 GMT, "HEMI-Powered"
> > wrote:
>
>>>Doby added these comments in the current discussion du jour
>>>...
>>>
>>>> looking at the designs of these trucks, I would place them
>>>> in the Korean or Veitnam era. My 42-46 have nothing that
>>>> even looks like these.
>>>
>>>That's entirely possible, Doby. I have a couple of pictures
>>>of my father, a WWII Marine, by his International 6x6. It's
>>>appearance is similar to this truck but not identical. For
>>>example, his windshield was one piece while this one is a
>>>2-piece design. I did a considerable amount of Googling for
>>>both GMC and International trucks used from WWII to about
>>>Korea. As you suggest, the designs did evolve somewhat but
>>>what confuses me yet is that there are also minor differences
>>>between the GMC and International designs just like there
>>>were minor differences between Willys and Ford Jeeps, and
>>>parts of the basic truck body also evolved somewhat during
>>>the war based on experience in the field and the actual
>>>intended use. For example, while Marine 6x6s had a 50 cal.
>>>machine gun on a swivel mount behind the driver, many Army
>>>trucks of the day did not have this feature as it was less
>>>needed for the close combat of early island invasions.
>>>
>>>However, this truck is definitely NOT a Viet Nam era truck. I
>>>have personal experience with the 1970-ish Deuce-and-a-half
>>>from my own Army career. One big difference was the fenders
>>>changed from the rounded form of WWII and Korean trucks to
>>>angular fenders. I was very pressed for time at the Motor
>>>Fest event and didn't take any pictures of the later truck. I
>>>did get some of a 1944 DUKW that had a placard giving the
>>>date and key features of that amphibious vehicle.
>>>
>>>I'd be happy to change the year and war name for these
>>>pictures to what is more accurate, and I thank you for any
>>>specifics that may guide me. For example, do you have any
>>>definitive web links that can be used to date these things? I
>>>didn't save any of my Google searches but I did notice a very
>>>wide range of body designs between GMC and International,
>>>depending on the purpose of the truck, and in support of your
>>>comments that the design changed by Korea.
>>>
>>>The Motor Fest car show is a judged event and the 300+ cars
>>>that were there were grouped by year or period and each one
>>>had an owner's card on the top of the I/P or taped to the
>>>windshield with the exact model year, make and model. This is
>>>obviously very helpful as you know when trying to ID similar
>>>looking cars or the more obscure ones. However, the military
>>>exhibit was manned by volunteers from various veterans
>>>groups, and were garbed in WWII- era winter uniforms, all
>>>Army and a few Navy, no Marines. Because the trucks, one
>>>half-track and the DUCW weren't judged, I don't think, the
>>>owners didn't have a card anyplace I could see. I'm always on
>>>the lookout for these, and the only car in this part of the
>>>show with a card was a 1942 Cadillac general's staff car.
>>>
>>>>>>Pictures shot during the Summer Motor Fest car show at
>>>>>>Greenfield Village in Dearborn, MI. There was little or no
>>>>>>information available on the many WWII and later military
>>>>>>vehicles in the exhibit, so I'm making a best guess as to
>>>>>>the IDs. Corrections would be appreciated.
>>>>
>



--
HP, aka Jerry

Don't be a fop or a blooter, make only pithy comments on Usenet